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Made-in-China passenger jet set to take wing
afp.png

ByAFP
Posted on May 3, 2017
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SHANGHAI: China is expected this week to conduct the maiden test flight of a home-grown passenger jet built to meet soaring domestic travel demand and challenge the dominance of Boeing and Airbus.

The C919, built by state-owned aerospace manufacturer Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC), was set to take wing over Shanghai on Friday, the company said on Wednesday, according to the official Xinhua news agency.

“If weather conditions are not suitable, the maiden flight will be rescheduled,” COMAC said, adding that engineers had completed some 118 tests.

The narrow-body jet represents nearly a decade of effort in a state-mandated drive to reduce dependence on European consortium Airbus and US aerospace giant Boeing.

“The first flight itself is not a huge deal. (But) of course, it’s going to be a hugely symbolic moment in the evolution of China’s aviation industry,” said Greg Waldron, Asia managing editor at industry publication Flightglobal.

The C919 is the country’s first big passenger plane and the latest sign of growing Chinese ambition and technical skill, coming one week after China launched its first domestically made aircraft carrier and docked a cargo spacecraft with an orbiting space lab.

The C919 can seat 168 passengers and has a range of 5,555 kilometres (3,444 miles).

Long way to go

China is a huge battleground for Boeing and Airbus, with its travellers taking to the skies in ever-growing numbers.

The Chinese travel market is expected to surpass the United States by 2024, according to the International Air Transport Association.

Airbus has estimated Chinese airlines will need nearly 6,000 new planes over the next two decades, while Boeing foresees 6,800 aircraft. Both put the combined price tags for those planes at around $1 trillion.

But aviation analysts said Shanghai-based COMAC has a long journey ahead before it can challenge the lock on the market by Boeing and Airbus.

“This is an important milestone for China with this new aircraft. But for it to move to the next stage, which is to sell this product, is not going to be so easy,” said Shukor Yusof, an analyst with Malaysia-based aviation consultancy Endau Analytics.

But COMAC may be able to rely on purchases by fast-growing Chinese airlines.

It had already received 570 orders by the end of last year, almost all from domestic airlines.

Waldron agreed it would take time but said that over the next century China would become a world aviation player.

“You are going to have three big companies. You will have Boeing, you will have Airbus, and you will have COMAC,” he said.

China has dreamed of building its own civil aircraft since the 1970s, when it began work on the narrow-body Y-10, which was eventually deemed unviable and never entered service.

COMAC’s first regional jet, the 90-seat ARJ 21, entered service in 2016, several years late.

Long-haul ambition

The ARJ 21 is currently restricted to flying domestic routes as it still lacks the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certification that would allow it to fly US skies.

China also has been in talks with the FAA to obtain certification for the C919, without result.

The C919’s first test flight had been due to take place in 2016 but was delayed.

Besides the C919, China is also working with Russia to develop a long-haul wide-bodied jet called the C929.

Although the C919 is made in China, foreign firms are playing key roles by supplying systems as well as the engines, which are made by CFM International, a joint venture between General Electric of the US and France’s Safran.

During a visit to COMAC in 2014, President Xi Jinping expressed concern that not having a homegrown plane left China at the mercy of foreign industrial groups.

China last August launched a new multi-billion dollar jet-engine conglomerate with nearly 100,000 employees, with the hope of powering its own planes with self-made engines.

After the C919’s first flight, it will need to pass tests to obtain Chinese airworthiness certification before it can be sold.
https://arynews.tv/en/made-china-passenger-jet-set-take-wing/
 
China-built aircraft C919 makes successful maiden flight
By Li Qian
2017-05-05 15:31 GMT+8

China's first domestically-built large passenger jet C919 has just landed at Shanghai Pudong International Airport, after successfully undertaking its maiden flight.

The C919 is a narrow-body aircraft designed to carry 168 passengers. It has
a standard range of 4,075 kilometers and an extended range of 5,555 kilometers.

The C919 is China's answer to main rivals on the market, including the Boeing 737 and Airbus A320.

Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, Ltd. (COMAC), the manufacturer of C919, said it has received 570 orders for the aircraft from 23 clients, including domestic airlines such as Air China, China Southern and China Eastern. Overseas orders take up about 10 percent of the total, including US-based GECAS and airlines from Germany, Thailand and others from the Asia Pacific region.

The C919 has improved the aviation landscape in China and given a significant boost to the country's aerospace industry. Analysts say the successful maiden flight shows China's aviation industry has entered an upgrade period, with upcoming work on testing, production and delivery.
 
China and Russia to work together on C929 aircraft
2017-05-05 16:23 CGTN

Projet-Long-courrier-UAC-COMAC.jpg


China and Russia are developing a jumbo jet called the C929, which is expected to be ready for passenger flights in the next six or seven years.

The joint project is currently in a research and development phase, but when completed, the C929 is expected to have a significant impact on the civilian aircraft market. The 280-seat wide-body passenger jet, with a range of nearly 12,000 kilometers is designed by Chinese and Russian engineers. The C929 will become China's largest civilian aircraft, as well as the biggest jetliner to be produced by Russia since the Cold War.

Unveiled at AirShow China last year, the jet will help boost the production capabilities of both countries. Experts say that on its own, Russia's market is too small for such an ambitious project, while China is ready to meet the challenge.

Russia's United Aircraft Corporation will supply its most advanced avionics technology and a cutting-edge technology composite wing. China will handle the C-929 fuselage construction, with Shanghai-based aircraft maker COMAC set to assemble the jets. At a cost of 13 billion US dollars, the fuel-efficient plane will compete with Boeing's 787 Dreamliner and the Airbus 350.

Industry experts say more than half of global demand for wide-body passenger jets will come from the Asia-Pacific market. And if China and Russia keep up the current pace of cooperation, engineers will soon be able to take to the skies to test the new aircraft.

http://www.ecns.cn/2017/05-05/256278.shtml
 
China and Russia to work together on C929 aircraft
2017-05-05 16:23 CGTN

View attachment 395061

China and Russia are developing a jumbo jet called the C929, which is expected to be ready for passenger flights in the next six or seven years.

The joint project is currently in a research and development phase, but when completed, the C929 is expected to have a significant impact on the civilian aircraft market. The 280-seat wide-body passenger jet, with a range of nearly 12,000 kilometers is designed by Chinese and Russian engineers. The C929 will become China's largest civilian aircraft, as well as the biggest jetliner to be produced by Russia since the Cold War.

Unveiled at AirShow China last year, the jet will help boost the production capabilities of both countries. Experts say that on its own, Russia's market is too small for such an ambitious project, while China is ready to meet the challenge.

Russia's United Aircraft Corporation will supply its most advanced avionics technology and a cutting-edge technology composite wing. China will handle the C-929 fuselage construction, with Shanghai-based aircraft maker COMAC set to assemble the jets. At a cost of 13 billion US dollars, the fuel-efficient plane will compete with Boeing's 787 Dreamliner and the Airbus 350.

Industry experts say more than half of global demand for wide-body passenger jets will come from the Asia-Pacific market. And if China and Russia keep up the current pace of cooperation, engineers will soon be able to take to the skies to test the new aircraft.

http://www.ecns.cn/2017/05-05/256278.shtml
兄弟们, 请开导我为何商飞非得和俄罗斯合作才能搞 C929?
 
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兄弟们, 请开导我为何商飞非得和俄罗斯合作才能搞 C929?

China should learn the soft way and hard way to do high tech project: Soft way mean we share the financial burden, low technical risk and greater market sharing and complement each-other strength which it's the best way in nowadays mega project, this require to build trust and new management skill to deal with international partner, In the globalization, we can not do everything by ourselves even if we could, a partnership mean greater access to partner's market and enhance competiveness by reducing price tag of high volume order and make the project more viable.

Hard way is do thing by ourselves if everything failed.
 
Is this an end to the era of Airbus 320 neo and Boeing 737 max?

China’s first domestically designed commercial aircraft C919 has made its debut, while both Airbus and Boeing have recently announced job cuts to control costs. The two companies are seen as the main competitors of China's C919. So is this the end of an era of domination for Airbus 320 neo and Boeing 737 max?

Watch here:

http://watchthis.chinadaily.com.cn/video/content/home/WS590b2974a3104b55d65107d0

d43d7e14d4731a7612a90e.jpg

Staff workers check a C919, China's first domestically-built large passenger jet, at a hangar of the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC) in Shanghai, east China, May 4, 2017. The maiden flight of the C919 is scheduled for May 5. The flight will depart from Shanghai Pudong International Airport. "If weather conditions are not suitable, the maiden flight will be rescheduled," COMAC said. (Xinhua/Ding Ting)

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d43d7e14d4731a7612e910.jpg


d43d7e14d4731a76130111.jpg


d43d7e14d4731a76131012.jpg


http://www.china.org.cn/photos/2017-05/05/content_40751307_4.htm

The world aviation market is big enough for 3 big players. Boeing and Airbus will still be dominant. But Comac occupying third will still mean a lot in terms of billions of dollars for local deployment and driving economy of China.
The biggest market of China puts a lot of advantage for Comac.

兄弟们, 请开导我为何商飞非得和俄罗斯合作才能搞 C929?
China is at an advantage in this joint venture. I can be sure, China called the shot and ask Russian to do China bidding. End of the day, the market is on China side. Even Russian can made a successful plane, it will not have a market without China help. Russia market is too small for them to be profitable.
 
China is at an advantage in this joint venture. I can be sure, China called the shot and ask Russian to do China bidding. End of the day, the market is on China side. Even Russian can made a successful plane, it will not have a market without China help. Russia market is too small for them to be profitable.

I think that's primary reason why Russia is interested to have join venture over C929 is all about market, during the cold war, China bought thousands of western civilian planes and practically none from Russia beside some for bater and the estimation of China future's need is over 3K. It's mutual benefit for China and Russia since it's a partnership program and not as a pure buyer from Boeing or Airbus and China will have more leverage and bargain over western aircraft supplier.
 
I think that's primary reason why Russia is interested to have join venture over C929 is all about market, during the cold war, China bought thousands of western civilian planes and practically none from Russia beside some for bater and the estimation of China future's need is over 3K. It's mutual benefit for China and Russia since it's a partnership program and not as a pure buyer from Boeing or Airbus and China will have more leverage and bargain over western aircraft supplier.
Precisely, Russian will need to obey China and ask to transfer whatever technology needed for this project. Even the profit sharing I can be sure, its China advantage like China 70% while Russian only gets 30%.

China has prove the C919 and Y-20 project that she can go alone. This is in fact a last chance for Russian to have any partnership with China.
 
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兄弟们, 请开导我为何商飞非得和俄罗斯合作才能搞 C929?
对手是波音空客,商飞有钱但多个助手好办事,夹他们的产能上车可以加快,上市时间最重要。况且C929销量肯定只有C919零头,本来就是好看而不跑量的产品,扩大共同市场可降低投资风险。下游工业规模可以了,中国真正该集中火力发展上游精密部件、高技术合金化工、电子和精密机床,这才是重大科技专项。
As per Boeing's research on global market for next 20 years, single aisle (like C919) dominates market demand, as high as 70%, while medium widebody (like C929) is only 9%. To better leverage investment and tech-industrial assets already on hand, expediate of C929 delivery (time to market), it's better for China and Russia to complement each other and pool resources together. China should focus investments on upstream supply chain. Strategically, it also facilitates an OBOR industrial integration/alliance built on Sino-Russia axis.

untitled-png.394827

http://www.boeing.com/resources/boe...nloads/Boeing_Current_Market_Outlook_2015.pdf
 
Precisely, Russian will need to obey China and ask to transfer whatever technology needed for this project. Even the profit sharing I can be sure, its China advantage like China 70% while Russian only gets 30%.

China has prove the C919 and Y-20 project that she can go alone. This is in fact a last chance for Russian to have any partnership with China.

I don't think "Obey" is the key word when you're in partnership, China and Russia need to clear some mindsets that one has to be superior than other as what Soviet wanted China to be obedient during 1960s. Both has to establish a confidence measure and build up some trustworthy relation if we want to have more future cooperation (用人不疑, 疑人不用).
 
China Eastern sees new plane as 'star' of its fleet
By Wang Ying in Shanghai | China Daily | Updated: 2017-05-06

China Eastern Airlines Corp Ltd said that the C919, China's homegrown large passenger jet, is set to become the new star of its 600-plus aircraft fleet, stating that its "safety and state-of-the-art design will bring superb a flying experience to its passengers".

In a written reply to China Daily, the Shanghai-based airline, which is expected to be the first carrier to take delivery of the homegrown single-aisle passenger jet, said it was "extremely confident about the future of the C919".

China Eastern pre-ordered 20 C919s from the aircraft maker Commercial Aircraft Corp of China Ltd in 2010, and according to the purchase agreement, negotiations for the ordering of the first five planes will be launched within a year of the C919's maiden flight.

China Eastern is one of the nation's top three airlines, serving more than 100 million passengers in flights to 177 nations and regions in 1,062 destinations every year.

ICBC Financial Leasing Co Ltd, the subsidiary of Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, announced its intention to purchase 45 C919 aircraft in October 2011. ICBC Financial Leasing is looking to support COMAC with joint marketing, market surveys, signing more orders and all-around financial services in the future, said Xu Qing, deputy CEO of ICBC Leasing.

"C919 will serve the most attractive market. The aircraft will be used in the domestic market, the Asia-Pacific region and the African market in its early days. By continuously optimizing the aircraft's performance, the C919 will go global in the future," said Xu.

With regard to the two dominant commercial aircraft makers-Boeing Co and Airbus Group SE-she suggested the future C919 should pay more attention to service at the beginning to build up its brand first.

"It's important to pay attention to customer support and services, and enhance product quality and stability. Overseas marketing should be based on continuously optimized products and services, an efficient maintenance support, and efficiency of operations," said Xu.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-05/06/content_29229735.htm
 
That (Nagpur) would be outsourcing of components for manufacturing by Boeing. They have been doing this for some time now (worldwide incl China as well I believe). As for which one (component fab vs MRO plus) has more MVA overall/per worker, depends on the details.

I doubt this boeing MRO plus facility would affect China's own aviation projects.

Ahhh, another Indy genius, it seems you have no idea how much BOEING outsources from AVIC, don't you? You seem to think China is only putting on plastic chairs and linen covers. Good, keep on thinking that way.

Had it ever occurred to you that before your Make in India initiative, the Chinis had used their huge market as leverage to force BOEING to procure and produce more in China? This is only a completion and delivery center, although the FIRST outside US. BOEING already operates composites, parts & components JV in China.

http://www.compositesworld.com/news/boeing-avic-open-chinese-composites-facility-expansion.

Assembly, completions, testing, delivery, modification, maintenance are all essential part of manufacturing albeit considered low level. These jobs could have been done in the US employing and providing mid level income to 2000 Americans. But due to Chinese market leverage, we manage to force them to do this in China. Imagine this, can India force BOEING to open the first delivery center outside US?

2000 jobs with an average of 1000USD wage is 24mil$ salary expenditure a year. This havent include taxes, utilities, lease payment, factory construction cost. China need every low, middle, high technology job we can get. We need to provide employment to all, the same low level jobs India is begging for now.

Think about it this way, what is BOEING actually doing, the biggest value addition is in the design of the plane, otherwise, building a plane is essentially, welding and riveting up structures and assembly/wiring. The avionics and engines are all outsourced by BOEING to the likes of Rockwell and RR.

Either way, China is going to buy BOEING or AIRBUS (duopoly) for the near future until C919 is matured enough, might as well provide employment in the meantime. You seriously think the Chinis are dumb? We are not the supapowa cheering fanatic ok, just because you open an assembly line, we are gonna buy BOEINGs all the way? The final aim and ambition had always been a domestic plane.
Yup this is what I meant earlier by extrapolating your export/import composition to the whole economy.

Huge parts of the economy do not follow the same price levels or composition as that which is exported/imported....so one has to be careful with application of direct exchange rate to the whole GDP (in whatever local currency).
No point bullshiting and over analyzing genius. Just take a trip to China, take the HSR and travel from south to north, from east to west, look at the infrastructure, the prices of goods/food/services and look at the well being of the people, compare this to your second largest Pee Pee Pee economy. I have been to Mumbai, Chennai, Hyderabad, and the amount of poverty and the shitty infrastructure i see there is appalling.

Poor people who cannot even afford a smart phone always brag about their PPP so that they can afford enough onion and rice.....LMAO

These reta*rds seriously think PPP is a good measure since it places them second only to China. They don't understand the purpose of having money which is to provide proper infrastructure and living standards to the people. You might be able to buy less with the same dollar because wages are higher. Ex:

1) India : You can get a big mac for 2 USD$
2) China : You can get a big mac for 4 USD$

Assuming, prices of wheat and meat is fixed internationally, you can see the reason the burger is more expensive is because the Chinese worker is earning more compared to the Dalit level wages of India. However, using Indian PPP logic, their USD$ worth is now double of China's worth. But they fail to understand that commodities are all priced in dollars$. The same dollar might give you two extra big macs in India but when you buy oil, steel, minerals, etc, you need to pay it at real dollar terms.

In theory and PPP terms, India is a SUPAPOWA, but look at the amount of poverty, the starvation level, the amount of infant mortality, infant retardation, the infrastructure, let's look at the water delivery infrastructure, I can't believe in India, they are dependent on water trucks to deliver water in Kolkata, this is considered blasphemous in China.

In the old days they were saying this > hey it's okay to be poorer than China, but we have a better environment, nowadays I see their mouth shut since 6/10 of the worst polluted places on earth is in India, They didn't notice the effort China did in cleaning and enforcing environmental rules. The perception changes when they travel to China, after which they will say, we want to make Mumbai the next Shanghai.

I had this Indy trying so hard to sport garbage in the a river in Shenzhen, he was amazed that there is only a plastic cup floating in the few kilometer stretch of river we walked by. There was no usual raw sewage odour which he had become so accustomed to in India.
I told him by the end of the day, the plastic cup will be scooped up.



Which country will do maintainance for their airplanes in India? They must be either dirt poor or very courageous. I doubt that even India's airliners would hesitate to hand over their airplanes to an Indian maintenance shop.

Emotional and poorly educated are common characters of Indian, which are enemy of quality. The workers can never make anything quality in mass scale with such characters.
http://www.news18.com/news/india/bo...facility-in-nagpur-nitin-gadkari-1002593.html

I think BOEING withdrew from tht investment plan. The legendary Indy red tape and procrastination, blame culture, talking more than doing culture, I had already foreseen this.

Well said, we are the country which should be promoting PPP as a preferred regime to gauge economy more than any other country.

Sadly, you see some incompetent country is so willing to get trapped in this ridiculous glorified shi*thole.

View attachment 384098

Exactly my view.
I really appreciate National Bureau of Statistics does not fall into the FT-Establishment crap just to make people feel good.
The PPP basket is so problematic.
Under PPP, that we buy a TV in China and in Europe will be differently calculated though we people in different countries pay nearly the SAME.

Well, if those PPP advocate only look at food and local services, then let them do it, they will stay poor forever boasting how many pancakes they can have everyday.
No point telling the Indy this, they already know this, but to cover up the inferiority complex, they need to appear strong, sort of face saving culture. I am the second largest PEE PEE PEE economy. I am SUPAPOWA
 
Ahhh, another Indy genius, it seems you have no idea how much BOEING outsources from AVIC, don't you? You seem to think China is only putting on plastic chairs and linen covers. Good, keep on thinking that way.

Had it ever occurred to you that before your Make in India initiative, the Chinis had used their huge market as leverage to force BOEING to procure and produce more in China? This is only a completion and delivery center, although the FIRST outside US. BOEING already operates composites, parts & components JV in China.

http://www.compositesworld.com/news/boeing-avic-open-chinese-composites-facility-expansion.

Assembly, completions, testing, delivery, modification, maintenance are all essential part of manufacturing albeit considered low level. These jobs could have been done in the US employing and providing mid level income to 2000 Americans. But due to Chinese market leverage, we manage to force them to do this in China. Imagine this, can India force BOEING to open the first delivery center outside US?

2000 jobs with an average of 1000USD wage is 24mil$ salary expenditure a year. This havent include taxes, utilities, lease payment, factory construction cost. China need every low, middle, high technology job we can get. We need to provide employment to all, the same low level jobs India is begging for now.

Think about it this way, what is BOEING actually doing, the biggest value addition is in the design of the plane, otherwise, building a plane is essentially, welding and riveting up structures and assembly/wiring. The avionics and engines are all outsourced by BOEING to the likes of Rockwell and RR.

Either way, China is going to buy BOEING or AIRBUS (duopoly) for the near future until C919 is matured enough, might as well provide employment in the meantime. You seriously think the Chinis are dumb? We are not the supapowa cheering fanatic ok, just because you open an assembly line, we are gonna buy BOEINGs all the way? The final aim and ambition had always been a domestic plane.

No point bullshiting and over analyzing genius. Just take a trip to China, take the HSR and travel from south to north, from east to west, look at the infrastructure, the prices of goods/food/services and look at the well being of the people, compare this to your second largest Pee Pee Pee economy. I have been to Mumbai, Chennai, Hyderabad, and the amount of poverty and the shitty infrastructure i see there is appalling.



These reta*rds seriously think PPP is a good measure since it places them second only to China. They don't understand the purpose of having money which is to provide proper infrastructure and living standards to the people. You might be able to buy less with the same dollar because wages are higher. Ex:

1) India : You can get a big mac for 2 USD$
2) China : You can get a big mac for 4 USD$

Assuming, prices of wheat and meat is fixed internationally, you can see the reason the burger is more expensive is because the Chinese worker is earning more compared to the Dalit level wages of India. However, using Indian PPP logic, their USD$ worth is now double of China's worth. But they fail to understand that commodities are all priced in dollars$. The same dollar might give you two extra big macs in India but when you buy oil, steel, minerals, etc, you need to pay it at real dollar terms.

In theory and PPP terms, India is a SUPAPOWA, but look at the amount of poverty, the starvation level, the amount of infant mortality, infant retardation, the infrastructure, let's look at the water delivery infrastructure, I can't believe in India, they are dependent on water trucks to deliver water in Kolkata, this is considered blasphemous in China.

In the old days they were saying this > hey it's okay to be poorer than China, but we have a better environment, nowadays I see their mouth shut since 6/10 of the worst polluted places on earth is in India, They didn't notice the effort China did in cleaning and enforcing environmental rules. The perception changes when they travel to China, after which they will say, we want to make Mumbai the next Shanghai.

I had this Indy trying so hard to sport garbage in the a river in Shenzhen, he was amazed that there is only a plastic cup floating in the few kilometer stretch of river we walked by. There was no usual raw sewage odour which he had become so accustomed to in India.
I told him by the end of the day, the plastic cup will be scooped up.




http://www.news18.com/news/india/bo...facility-in-nagpur-nitin-gadkari-1002593.html

I think BOEING withdrew from tht investment plan. The legendary Indy red tape and procrastination, blame culture, talking more than doing culture, I had already foreseen this.


No point telling the Indy this, they already know this, but to cover up the inferiority complex, they need to appear strong, sort of face saving culture. I am the second largest PEE PEE PEE economy. I am SUPAPOWA
Only incompetent people will embrace PPP, which help them build a little bit self-esteem.
 

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