China cannot rely on foreign technology for national security purposes

[ckf]

Well, the best you can do is to "Accuse" other people for being a fraud, coincidentally, this is what fraud always do.

And the red part is incorrect. Was mobile phone in China use one of these?

View attachment 485871

If Chinese mobile phone use ONLY this, then you have a bigger problem then CPU, because forget CPU, unless you don't want to use the Subscriber Identity Modula (otherwise known as SIM), your phone is simply, well, NOT A MOBILE PHONE, because there are NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE other than SIM in the world, used to have CDMA (which is a US/Japan technology) but SIM is the only thing left.

Forget about CPU, with one of these, which mean China have always depend on 2 things. SIM technology itself or the UICC, which is LICENSED from European Telecommunication Standard Institute, which although is not American company, you still run the risk of being sanction. But the receiver of SIM (or SIM interface bus) build in your phone, that is an AMERICAN technology, and currently the manufacturer dominating this is Qualcomm

Unless China stop using SIM technology (Which dated back in 1990s when we first have our GSM network back then.) There are tons of technology is patented to everywhere but China (like Roaming, which is a KT patent, GPS on SIM which is an American patent and so on) plus other third party access on mobile phone (like Blue Tooth, Wifi)

LOL

The entire idea behind global licensing is to cooperate among vendors.

Even if UICC were to impose sanctions, how will they enforce these sanctions outside of Europe as an example? The patents lawsuits sound scary, but very little teeth in enforcement, especially against MNCs. Huawei, Samsung, Apple has sued each other countless times, nothing gets settled and everyone keep making phones. ​

 

[gambit]

Hellow .. meet Chinese' Eastcompeace, a large simcard producer:

What is planarity and what kind of binout does it produce?

This question and "What is 'z up'", I can walk into Samsung, TMSC, Hynix, or any major semicon company, and their engineers would know exactly what I mean.

Back in post 23 when I said China's semicon industry is vulnerable from wafer start to wafer end, I meant it metaphorically or figuratively, to denote the entire industry as a whole. But you were too dense to understand and thought I mean the wafer literally.

What is z up?

If you truly had 'aviation studies' as you claimed, you would have recognize the aviation reference. The z axis is vertical, as in up/down. To 'z up' is to move up/down, as in robotics, and in semicon manufacturing, robotic arms that moves products in the up/down motion.

 

[antonius123]

What is planarity and what kind of binout does it produce?

Doesnt matter. It proves China can still have simcard if european vendor ban.
Be a little bit smarter ..

This question and "What is 'z up'", I can walk into Samsung, TMSC, Hynix, or any major semicon company, and their engineers would know exactly what I mean.

Meaningless.. it can be easily considered bogus if you dont show quality.

Back in post 23 when I said China's semicon industry is vulnerable from wafer start to wafer end, I meant it metaphorically or figuratively, to denote the entire industry as a whole. But you were too dense to understand and thought I mean the wafer literally.

Saying : "wafer start to wafer end denote the entire chip industry" is dense and demonstrating your incompetence in this field. As chip industry is not only wafer, but including chip design, software etc.

So it means you are too dense to use metaphore, or you have no idea about the chip industry.

What is z up?

If you truly had 'aviation studies' as you claimed, you would have recognize the aviation reference. The z axis is vertical, as in up/down. To 'z up' is to move up/down, as in robotics, and in semicon manufacturing, robotic arms that moves products in the up/down motion.

That is very basic knowledge.

But you'd better focus on sustaining your argument and addressing my counter instead of talking rubbish, as people can see how you again are loosing ground on this topic debate that you claim as your field and background

 

[jhungary]

The entire idea behind global licensing is to cooperate among vendors.

Even if UICC were to impose sanctions, how will they enforce these sanctions outside of Europe as an example? The patents lawsuits sound scary, but very little teeth in enforcement, especially against MNCs. Huawei, Samsung, Apple has sued each other countless times, nothing gets settled and everyone keep making phones. ​

I don't know how UICC can impose sanction, UICC is a card...…Do you mean ETSI?

The different is, while Apple, Samsung and Huawei lock horn in design/apps patent, in another word, creativity patent, what ETSI hold is something physical, you cannot make a SIM card without following ETSI format. And you cannot use a phone if you do not have a SIM card. And while enforcement is another issue in this What If, ETSI can simply shut down all the production line or change its format or form factor (we have seen 4 different Form Factor of SIM since 1990s) to denied the Chinese from using their physical technology.

There are tons of way to enforce patent, and while this is another topic on another thread, you need to understand this is not something as simple and as easy as Huawei suing Apple over its creativity license, or vice versa, since this is physically exist, it is quite easy to enforce patent rules.

On the other hand, if Qualcomm started to sanction Chinese mobile phone company, how and where do Chinese come up with enough SIM bus (even if the Chinese have the know how to make one) in a short period of time?

Hellow .. meet Chinese' Eastcompeace, a large simcard producer:
https://www.gadgetsnow.com/tech-new...rd-supplier-in-India/articleshow/17620664.cms


C] Worldwide SIM card Manufacturers Analysis/Key Competitors :-

1 Gemalto
2 Giesecke & Devrient
3 Morpho
4 Oberthur Technologies
5 Bluefish
6 Datang
7 DZCARD
8 Eastcompeace
9 ST Incard
10 Kona
11 Watchdata
12 Wuhan Tianyu
13 XH Smartcard (Zhuhai) Co. Ltd
http://www.telcoprofessionals.com/p...t-2016-global-leading-manufacturers-gemalto-m

That means at least 5 of 13 SimCard manufacturers are from China.

So no, Europe's ban on exporting sim cards to China wont' make her smartphone vendor collapse. That means the accusation is based on your incompetence

You do know Chinese is MAKING these SIM Card, not inventing it, right? You do know even Chinese are making it, they still need to follow TS11.11 and TS 51.011? And currently Chinese SIM card vendor PAID license fee on SIM card made to ETSI

What if ETSI ban or Sanction the Chinese and change the law/format on TS11.11 and TS51.011? Or even simply change the form factor of the card? All that will render the Chinese SIM card useless. Do China even have a standard similar to TS11.11 and TS 51.011 standard?

What a Group Six thinking...…….

And didn't @Slav Defence warn you about the insult you have made? Calling someone incompetent is usually a reflection of its own incompetence

 

[Daniel808]

Doesnt matter. It proves China can still have simcard if european vendor ban.
Be a little bit smarter ..



Meaningless.. it can be easily considered bogus if you dont show quality.




Saying : "wafer start to wafer end denote the entire chip industry" is dense and demonstrating your incompetence in this field. As chip industry is not only wafer, but including chip design, software etc.

So it means you are too dense to use metaphore, or you have no idea about the chip industry.




That is very basic knowledge.

But you'd better focus on sustaining your argument and addressing my counter instead of talking BS, as people can see how you again are loosing ground on this topic debate that you claim as your field and background

Headshot again
Congrats my friend @antonius123

 

[Jlaw]

ZTE is not the only one. Years back already know US will weaponize trade when it block the sales of CPU to China.

Good wake up call to

In fact the wafer technology that I am speaking about which is foundry and equipments, not the silica mining etc like you said.

And LOL. You can't say it is vulnerable if China doesnt depend on it yet, while China still depend on TSMC and other from overseas; means US ban on wafer equipment to China doesnt impact significantly; and you are too dense to understand about it




After you failed to grasp the article + previous frauds, how could people believe on your current claim that you are presently working in semicon industry?

Most probably you just copy paste from another source without deep understanding - as usual, that explains why you always mismatch

Viet professional Fraudster that old man is.

Thanks for debunking him as we are tire of reading his cut n paste crap.

 

[antonius123]

On the other hand, if Qualcomm started to sanction Chinese mobile phone company, how and where do Chinese come up with enough SIM bus (even if the Chinese have the know how to make one) in a short period of time?



You do know Chinese is MAKING these SIM Card, not inventing it, right? You do know even Chinese are making it, they still need to follow TS11.11 and TS 51.011? And currently Chinese SIM card vendor PAID license fee on SIM card made to ETSI

What if ETSI ban or Sanction the Chinese and change the law/format on TS11.11 and TS51.011? Or even simply change the form factor of the card? All that will render the Chinese SIM card useless. Do China even have a standard similar to TS11.11 and TS 51.011 standard?

LOL. I can't stop laughing reading your silly argument ..

Do you realize that patent is simply "a rule of game"? while manufacturing know how is "capability"?

Why ETSI will ban China from complying with rule of game while she has the capability and knowhow and can ignore ETSI if she want? So if ETSI ban china from paying patent fee - then china should stop paying patent fee and continue to use the knowhow and technology to produce it.

LOL .. what a thinking .. you still haven't changed

What a Group Six thinking...…….

And didn't @Slav Defence warn you about the insult you have made? Calling someone incompetent is usually a reflection of its own incompetence

Which insult that you mean?

Saying someone incompetent on base that the one has made self-proclaim about his competency while fail demonstrating his competency during discussion is not kind of insult that is prohibited during discussion.

It is the word like: "dumbass", "moron", "mr. mcmuffin", "your mom is waitress", sort of that you usually bring when get cornered that is inappopriate to be used in discussion.

If you feel so sensitive and dont like other said you are not competent, then dont start it! Stop making self proclaim about your competency and abusing it to shut down your counter partner without showing your real competence in discussion. Again I must remind you .. you are the starter..... such a cry baby

 

[rott]

Good wake up call to

Viet professional Fraudster that old man is.

Thanks for debunking him as we are tire of reading his cut n paste crap.

 

[jhungary]

LOL. I can't stop laughing reading your silly argument ..

Do you realize that patent is simply "a rule of game"? while manufacturing know how is "capability"?

Why ETSI will ban China from complying with rule of game while she has the capability and knowhow and can ignore ETSI if she want? So if ETSI ban china from paying patent fee - then china should stop paying patent fee and continue to use the knowhow and technology to produce it.

LOL .. what a thinking .. you still haven't changed

So answer me this

"CAN CHINA MAKE A EQIVENT OF SYSTEM SUCH AS TS11.11 and TS 51.011"

Yes or No?

and this

"WHAT CAN CHINESE DO IF AND WHEN ETSI CHANGE THE DEFINITION OF TS11.11 and TS 50.011"?

China can make SIM card, that does not mean they can set the definition, you do know what patented is the definition, not the way to make those SIM card right? If ETSI banned Chinese SIM card, of course you can keep using the existing equipment, but you CANNOT sell your phone overseas and most important of all, you need to reverse engineer the same structure exist in European and US just to get to the last generation. That mean time and money.

Have you ever wonder why Huawei still use Android base OS even with the threat looming? That's because the world is bigger than the Market in China and you know how much money Huawei earn form US, EU, Russia and India?

You are saying is like since TCP is patented to the US, it does not matter, because China is making the modem...

And all you can do is to make insult, you have ZERO knowledge on how stuff work, it have already seen by many, and just counting on the Chiense brother support lol.

Can you even make thru ONE (1) discussion without using insult? @waz @Slav Defence @The Eagle And you wonder why people here trust me more than you?

 

[antonius123]

So answer me this

"CAN CHINA MAKE A EQIVENT OF SYSTEM SUCH AS TS11.11 and TS 51.011"

Yes or No?

and this

"WHAT CAN CHINESE DO IF AND WHEN ETSI CHANGE THE DEFINITION OF TS11.11 and TS 50.011"?

ETSI making definition based on consensus – agreement between their members – and on openness. And China is a member of ETSI. So ETSI wont change definition without involving China.

And you haven't answered my question: why ETSI want to ban China?

China can make SIM card, that does not mean they can set the definition, you do know what patented is the definition, not the way to make those SIM card right? If ETSI banned Chinese SIM card, of course you can keep using the existing equipment, but you CANNOT sell your phone overseas and most important of all, you need to reverse engineer the same structure exist in European and US just to get to the last generation. That mean time and money.

Do you think changing definition/standard just in order to punish one of their member is not taking time and money? Especially this member has very big market and and powerful vendors? LOL.

Have you ever wonder why Huawei still use Android base OS even with the threat looming? That's because the world is bigger than the Market in China and you know how much money Huawei earn form US, EU, Russia and India?

You are saying is like since IP is patented to US, it does not matter, because China is making the modem...

Because Android rule the market - ecosystem is already much more established. But you can't equate this ETSI case with Google's android. US can push google to ban china, but ETSI can't.

Banning android on china will also mean US will loose china market and grow up new future competitors which will have US loose in short and long term period.

And all you can do is to make insult, you have ZERO knowledge on how stuff work, it have already seen by many, and just counting on the Chiense brother support lol.

Can you even make thru ONE (1) discussion without using insult? @waz @Slav Defence @The Eagle And you wonder why people here trust me more than you?

You are so hypocrite ... can't you see that you came here with insult? then why cry baby when you request it?

Of course I can make it if you dont start insult people.

Which people trust you more than me? What I can see here many people don't trust you and keep insulting you due to your improper behavior. Most bad rating I received were coming from your friend "Davos", he appeared and give me bad rating everytime you get cornered.

You request .. then you cry baby .. LOL

 

[jhungary]

ETSI making definition based on consensus – agreement between their members – and on openness. And China is a member of ETSI. So ETSI wont change definition without involving China.

And you haven't answered my question: why ETSI want to ban China?

China is an ASSOCIATED member of ETSI, not a full member.

And why US want to ban China? You are talking about Chinese being independent from FOREIGN technology, SIM IS a foreign technology.

Do you think changing definition/standard just in order to punish one of their member is not taking time and money? Especially this member has very big market and and powerful vendors? LOL.

AS much as 49% lol

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/9-of...nufacturers-are-chinese.565768/#post-10599587

Again, you are talking about China to be independent from Foreign Technology, again, SIM IS a foreign technology, and hell, you are even talking about NOT PAYING the due to use SIM technology.

Because Android rule the market - ecosystem is already much more established. But you can't equate this ETSI case with Google's android. US can push google to ban china, but ETSI can't.

Banning android on china will also mean US will loose china market and grow up new future competitors which will have US loose in short and long term period.

First of all, why Android can ban China and ETSI can't? The third time today, this TOPIC is for China to goes WITHOUT Foreign Technology, ETSI is not a Chinese organisation, it is a EU group, which mean it is foreign.

And you still has not answer me do you know how much is Huawei is earning on market such as India, US, Russia and EU, now tell them not to do business with all of the above and just go do business in China, see what will they say?

You are so hypocrite ... can't you see that you came here with insult? then why cry baby when you request it?

Of course I can make it if you dont start insult people.

Which people trust you more than me? What I can see here many people don't trust you and keep insulting you due to your improper behavior. Most bad rating I received were coming from your friend "Davos", he appeared and give me bad rating when you get cornered.

You request .. then you cry baby .. LOL

When did I insult you?

Yeah, he is my mate, and EVERYONE not giving me a negative rating on the "same" insult you suggested is my mate as well, lol

You seems to forget, not only Davos can leave negative rating, all Chinese mod, Chinese TTA and Pakistani mod can too, so by not giving me a negative rating are all these my mate too?

Did I insulting you? @jhungary
I just support my friend analysis and data, is that wrong, is that insulting, is that broke the rule in PDF? lol


Please, take care this Insulting by the so called "professional" member
@Slav Defence @WebMaster @waz

This Kind of Insulting posts from the so called "Professional" member only drag Down the quality of PDF forum.

What's the reason for PDF management keep protecting this Troller and even give him a so called "professional" status ?

You are very very very PROFESSIONAL, jhungray

But did I insult you? By calling you a cheerleader?

You weren't doing anything but sit there behind @antonius123 and "support" your mate

If that is not the definition of cheerleading, than I don't know what is.

And pep captain is a good thing, it meant "Leader Amongst Men" so are you saying I am insulting you by saying you are a leader amongst men?

 

[WebMaster]

Alright, stick to the topic and follow the rules. Overtime, warnings will take care of members irrespective of seniority.

 

[antonius123]

China is an ASSOCIATED member of ETSI, not a full member.

Doesn't matter. Still ETSI will set up definition based on consensus of all their members and openness. That means ETSI wont change definition without involving China.

And why US want to ban China? You are talking about Chinese being independent from FOREIGN technology, SIM IS a foreign technology.

Why diverting?

I am asking you why ETSI want to ban China, not US

AS much as 49% lol

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/9-of...nufacturers-are-chinese.565768/#post-10599587

Again, you are talking about China to be independent from Foreign Technology, again, SIM IS a foreign technology, and hell, you are even talking about NOT PAYING the due to use SIM technology.

49% is the largest market share. Changing definition without involving china will impact market greatly.

That SIM is foreign technology doesnt matter, because nobody can prevent China from using SIM standard. So your claim that China dependency on SIM standard is critical is baseless and wrong.

First of all, why Android can ban China and ETSI can't? The third time today, this TOPIC is for China to goes WITHOUT Foreign Technology, ETSI is not a Chinese organisation, it is a EU group, which mean it is foreign.

And you still has not answer me do you know how much is Huawei is earning on market such as India, US, Russia and EU, now tell them not to do business with all of the above and just go do business in China, see what will they say?

ETSI is non chinese doesnt matter.

ETSI cannot ignore China as China is the biggest market and her vendor occupy more than 40% market share. If ETSI ignore china they will receive consequence that make them suffer, because their members will loose China market while China can make her own standard and influence global market if necessary.

So SIM card as foreign doesnt matter, your argument has no ground.

When did I insult you?

Look back on how you started your argument with me on your post #27.

Yeah, he is my mate, and EVERYONE not giving me a negative rating on the "same" insult you suggested is my mate as well, lol

Not everyone has this privilege, while you are abusing your privilege.

You seems to forget, not only Davos can leave negative rating, all Chinese mod, Chinese TTA and Pakistani mod can too, so by not giving me a negative rating are all these my mate too?

Moderators try to keep neutral. They dont give me bad rating too.
So why abuse moderator's neutrality to shut me down?

Btw .. look on how you start to diverting and denting .. typical trick that both of you like to use when loosing ground

 

[jhungary]

Doesn't matter. Still ETSI will set up definition based on consensus of all their members and openness. That means ETSI wont change definition without involving China.

Why diverting?

I am asking you why ETSI want to ban China, not US

Please check the topic of this thread.

What does it say?

49% is the largest market share. Changing definition without involving china will impact market greatly.

SIM is foreign technology doesnt matter, because nobody can prevent China from using SIM standard. So your claim that China dependency on SIM standard is critical is baseless and wrong.

How? And I did not post that news just so you know, it's your compatriot. And it doesn't say 49%

And again, if you have to selective and say "Nah this won't happen" then I guess there are not more I can say. But the Topic is once again, "China CANNOT rely on foreign technology" not "China cannot rely on CERTAIN foreign technology" You can't change the topic to suit your argument, it's like moving the goal post to your ball so you can score.

ETSI is non chinese doesnt matter.

ETSI cannot ignore China as China is the biggest market and her vendor occupy more than 40% market share. If ETSI ignore china they will receive consequence that make them suffer, because their members will loose China market while China can make her own standard and influence global market if necessary.

So SIM card as foreign doesnt matter, your argument has no ground.

Again, open a topic and stated "China CANNOT rely on CERTAIN FOREIGN Technology"

This topic is "China cannot rely on Foreign Technology" and ETSI is not Chinese, so it's relevant.

Look back on how you started your argument with me on your post #27.

How I start this argument? Did I ask you to check where your head at again? LOL

Not everyone has this privilege, while you are abusing your privilege.

How I am abusing my privilege, I AM NOT THE ONE leaving you negative rating. If you want to accuse Davos is me, you need to show proof, otherwise, you are wrong.

Moderators try to keep neutral. They dont give me bad rating too.
So why abuse moderator's neutrality to shut me down?

Btw .. look on how you start to diverting and denting .. LOL

I said why they don't LEAVE ME bad rating? There are ALSO Chinese mod and Chinese TT too, even your buddy called some to the fray, why these people don't leave ME rating? Are they my friend too?

Truth is, even you have 1, you are the one that spill nonsense, and with all 4 and all 4 rating stick, that in itself said a lot of stuff, otherwise your rating would have been reversed by now.

 

[antonius123]

Please check the topic of this thread.

What does it say?

But you said China is vulnerable because she cant make SIM card, or dependent on SIM card technology, and ETSI can ban China from using SIM card.

I still havent seen plausible argument from you why so ..

How? And I did not post that news just so you know, it's your compatriot. And it doesn't say 49%

So who has the largest smarphone market share if not China?

And again, if you have to selective and say "Nah this won't happen" then I guess there are not more I can say. But the Topic is once again, "China CANNOT rely on foreign technology" not "China cannot rely on CERTAIN foreign technology" You can't change the topic to suit your argument, it's like moving the goal post to your ball so you can score.

On what way I changed the topic? You came here with claim that china dependency on foreign sim card tech is critical.

I am still sticking on the topic. The foreign technology meant here is technology under foreign nation's control, not the one which under international institution.

And still you are wrong when you say China is vulnerable due to dependency on foreign SIM card technology.

Again, open a topic and stated "China CANNOT rely on CERTAIN FOREIGN Technology"

This topic is "China cannot rely on Foreign Technology" and ETSI is not Chinese, so it's relevant.

So you give up your rebuttal on my argument that "China critical dependency on US is only on chip" is wrong? in your post #27? This was how you start arguing with me

How I start this argument? Did I ask you to check where your head at again? LOL

You start with requesting me to address the issue about fraud with your friend gambit while saying I am the real fraud. Post #27.

How I am abusing my privilege, I AM NOT THE ONE leaving you negative rating. If you want to accuse Davos is me, you need to show proof, otherwise, you are wrong.

You keep saying that my bad rating and your good rating as evidence that you are trustworthy while I am not, while the evidence show your argument barely got thanks including from your silent reader

I said why they don't LEAVE ME bad rating? There are ALSO Chinese mod and Chinese TT too, even your buddy called some to the fray, why these people don't leave ME rating? Are they my friend too?

LOL. They dont give you bad rating and dont give me good rating, so would you stop abusing rating as evidence of your good behavior and argument?

Truth is, even you have 1, you are the one that spill nonsense, and with all 4 and all 4 rating stick, that in itself said a lot of stuff, otherwise your rating would have been reversed by now.

As I said, 3 bad rating was coming from your mate "DAVOS" that appear whenever you got cornered, while the audience doesnt have privilege to give me good rating and you bad rating. But they keep giving my argument "thanks" while yours barely get none while you claim you have many silent readers on your side