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China canceled $30 billion in debts by 35 African countries

Aside from traditionally rich South Africa and its splinter Namibia, I only see Botswana. Equatorial Guinea and Gabon are too small to really count. I want you to name all of the other African countries that you claim has a higher per-capita GDP than China.

There are 54 African countries. Only five have a higher per-capita GDP than China. That means the other 49 African countries have a lower per-capita GDP than China. In my original post, China forgave the $30 billion debt of the least-developed 35 African countries.

You have been repeating your lie that China has forgiven the debt of richer African countries on a per-capita basis in my thread ad nauseum. Now, I want you to prove your point or shut the hell up and stop polluting my thread.

In the following news article, we see that China forgave 50% of the rail debt of Zambia and Tanzania, both of which are poorer than China on a per-capita basis. Where are all those news articles of China forgiving the debt of richer per-capita African nations that you keep claiming?!

China to forgive half of Africa rail debt - China.org.cn

"China to forgive half of [African] rail debt
Xinhua, January 20, 2011

China has signed a protocol with Zambia and Tanzania in Zambian capital city Lusaka, writing off 50 percent debts of Tanzania-Zambia Railway (TAZARA)

Chinese Deputy Commerce Minister Zhong Shan, Zambian Minister of Finance and National Planning Situmbeko Musokotwane and Deputy Minister of Finance and Economic Affairs of Tanzania Pereira Silima signed the protocol on Wednesday evening at Lusaka's Intercontinental Hotel.

Zhong said the decision made by the Chinese government to remit the partial debts is of the friendship between China and the African countries, and Chinese people wish to support Zambia and Tanzania in their capacity of development by seeing the railway getting off its burden of current operational difficulties.

Musokotwane praised the move by the Chinese side, saying the writing off of the partial debts will help boost trade among the three countries and revive the dream Zambia once had when the line was built."

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Reference: List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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According to the IMF, China's 2011 GDP per-capita is $5,184; which ranks #90 in the world and higher than practically all 54 African countries, except for South Africa and its splinter Namibia (which gained independence from South Africa in 1990), tiny Equatorial Guinea and Gabon, and Botswana.

Gabon and Equatorial Guinea also have life expectancies in the 40's. their GDP/capita comes from oil, and the money flows into the top 1% elite's pocket.
 
With idiots like you, that is why China is not appreciated even though we have done so much to help those africans and other part of the world.

As for less fortunate, I have no idea what is your definition. At least by per capital GDP, China is the less fortunate one, not for quite a few african countries there. Since on per person GDP level, they are richer than CHINA. By your logic, maybe we should cancel the debt owed by those "less unfortunate" americans???

As for the debt part, where do you get your idiotic comments: "Unfortunately for the few vocal pompous Chinese who believe it's their god given right to be superior, such a poisoning attitude"???

When you are richer than China, at the same time you got the loan from China, why the heck do you need the poor China to cancel the debt for the richer one???

Where the heck do my comments show: "their god given right to be superior"???

As for future building with those african countries as well as mid-east countries, well, where is China's future with Egypt, Yemen, Libya, south Sudan and etc??? Even for our relationship with Congo, North Sudan, Zimbabwe, Nigeria and etc, I think we have to pray each day that the color of the sky in those countries won't change even though we know the change will be sooner or later, at least starting with that blood-sucking Mugabe at the first.

We have invested billions of dollars into those countries catering to the need of the top dictators there. So what is now? After those dictators are gone, how many oil, construction contracts are awarded to China companies? How about those past contracts??? How about China's loss due to those war conflicts there? Will China be compensated for that??? Will those new-in-power still honor those contracts??? I do not think so.

As for grassroot level, during Mao's era, when we sacrificed everything to build road for those african countries while tens of millions of our own fellow citizens starved to death, maybe there were certain appreciation from them. However, after leaders changed, their faces and attitudes towards China just have 180 degree turn, just like turning a page in the book. Look at what we have scarified towards Tanzania, Albania, Algeria, Libya, Vietnam, N.K. and etc. We do not even got respect from them, let alone appreciation.

Nowadays, what you have said is way more misleading. Chinese workers live together with Chinese workers and Chinese companies use Chinese workers as well. When we have to use local workers, there are constant conflicts between those local workers with our companies over wages, hours, working conditions and etc. In many cases, violence does break out and people die out of those.

Besides being an idiot, reading others' remarks carefully before offering those idiotic comments which have nothing to do with the earlier remarks.


Just because of a few setbacks and bad news doesn't mean the overall benefits are not there. The thousand of laborers who flooded to Africa a few decades ago went there to seek a better life not merely because of Mao's or Deng's imperative, and along the way they brought their own expertise, in agriculture, business, and later on opening the doors to Chinese investments, telecommunications, oil companies etc. What these people hold are the true ethics of Chinese toughness and workmanship that helped build the foundation for Chinese success today, brainwashed idiots like you will not understand this concept because you think everything should be perfect, probably because you are SPOILED. The world don't stop running because of changes, it just opens up different opportunities. Your views offer nothing new but a rehash of the old propagandas of dictatorship, human rights violations, racism, etc etc. It's like reading a book by it's cover but not it's content, making anything you say worthless.

Also your nonsense about average Africans being richer than Chinese, apparently you have never heard or seen mass starvation or famine. :disagree:
 
First, China's per capita GDP has grown leaps and bounds for the recent years. When the loans were given out to them, we were still NOT at current level yet. Those money are our hard-earned money when we were still quite poor then.

Second, cancelling loans will NOT make those African locals better off. It only makes those elite put more in their own pockets. I can bet most of our cancelled $30 billions, little will flow into the normal people's pockets. Isn't the goal to cancel loans to make normal people to live better? Do you think people in Zim, Gabon and etc will live better off after the cancelling of the loans. It simply means those corrupted officials at top in those countries get another $30 billion in their bank accounts, which should be our Chinese hard earned money.

As for those "set-backs" as you have claimed, what kind of "set-backs" would you consider major one???

Money for friendship proves to be the most historically stupid policies China has ever adopted. Why don't you look at our surrounding countries and those we have helped throughout history by using such policy???

Which ones are exactly China's friends??? How many of them have been anti-China in the past even after receiving so much help either monetarily or materially???

Does our money given to them by cancelling loans make the normal locals better off??? We did cancel loans in the past many times. Why don't you ask the african locals how much money they have received from such cancellation of loans or how much better off they have been???

Gabon and Equatorial Guinea also have life expectancies in the 40's. their GDP/capita comes from oil, and the money flows into the top 1% elite's pocket.
 
First, China's per capita GDP has grown leaps and bounds for the recent years. When the loans were given out to them, we were still NOT at current level yet. Those money are our hard-earned money when we were still quite poor then.

Second, cancelling loans will make those African locals better off. It only makes those elite put more in their own pockets. I can bet most of our cancelled $30 billions, little will flow into the normal people's pockets. Isn't the goal to cancel loans to make normal people to live better? Do you think people in Zim, Gabon and etc will live better off after the cancelling of the loans. It simply means those corrupted officials at top in those countries get another $30 billion in their bank accounts, which should be our Chinese hard earned money.

As for those "set-backs" as you have claimed, what kind of "set-backs" would you consider major one???

Money for friendship proves to be the most historically stupid policies China has ever adopted. Why don't you look at our surrounding countries and those we have helped throughout history by using such policy???

Which ones are exactly China's friends??? How many of them have been anti-China in the past even after receiving so much help either monetarily or materially???

Does our money given to them by cancelling loans make the normal locals better off??? We did cancel loans in the past many times. Why don't you ask the african locals how much money they have received from such cancellation of loans or how much better off they have been???

1. If you want to talk about the past then say, "China had a lower per-capita GDP when the loans were handed out." That's not what you said in all of your former posts. You were misleading forum members.

2. Did you bother to read the news article that I posted where China forgave 50% of African rail debt?! If African rail doesn't benefit the local people then who does it benefit? You really should stop spewing your propaganda and look at the facts.

3. The countries surrounding China are all hostile. I would rather China help all African nations industrialize than help Vietnam or the Philippines. Let the Vietnamese and the Filipinos stay in the Stone Age forever. When neighbors are merely pawns of a foreign Western power, China should never give them one cent in aid. Ever.

Africans are China's friends. Vietnamese and Filipinos are China's enemies (see second citation below). It is absolutely correct for China to forgive $30 billion in African debt.

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I have reposted the news article again. Try reading it this time.

http://www.china.org.cn/world/2011-01/20/content_21783269.htm

"China to forgive half of [African] rail debt
Xinhua, January 20, 2011

China has signed a protocol with Zambia and Tanzania in Zambian capital city Lusaka, writing off 50 percent debts of Tanzania-Zambia Railway (TAZARA)

Chinese Deputy Commerce Minister Zhong Shan, Zambian Minister of Finance and National Planning Situmbeko Musokotwane and Deputy Minister of Finance and Economic Affairs of Tanzania Pereira Silima signed the protocol on Wednesday evening at Lusaka's Intercontinental Hotel.

Zhong said the decision made by the Chinese government to remit the partial debts is of the friendship between China and the African countries, and Chinese people wish to support Zambia and Tanzania in their capacity of development by seeing the railway getting off its burden of current operational difficulties.

Musokotwane praised the move by the Chinese side, saying the writing off of the partial debts will help boost trade among the three countries and revive the dream Zambia once had when the line was built."

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Vietnamese and Filipinos are China's enemies.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/NEWS/tabid/99/ID/680694/Dont-take-peaceful-approach-for-granted.aspx

"Don't take peaceful approach for granted
Global Times | October 25, 2011 01:22
By Global Times

Recently, both the Philippines and South Korean authorities have detained fishing boats from China, and some of those boats haven't been returned. China has been increasingly confronted with sea disputes and challenged by tough stances from the countries involved. These events have been promoting hawkish responses within China, asking the government to take action.

China has emphasized its reluctance in solving disputes at sea via military means on many occasions. Peace is vital for its own economic development. But some of China's neighboring countries have been exploiting China's mild diplomatic stance, making it their golden opportunity to expand their regional interests.

What has recently happened in the South China Sea is a good example. Countries like the Philippines and Vietnam believe China has been under various pressure. They think it is a good time for them to take advantage of this and force China to give away its interests.

Their inspiration is illogical and it is rare to see small countries using "opportunistic strategy" on bigger countries. Hard-line response will cause trouble for China, but if the problems and "pains" these countries bring exceed the risk China has to endure to change its policies and strategies, then a "counter-attack" is likely.

The sea disputes that some countries have created not only threaten China's long-term interests over the sovereignty of its sea borders, but also challenge the unity of China's politics on the issue. Growing voices urging the government to "strike back" will eventually form through influence.

Currently, China's mainstream understanding is that it should first go through the general channels of negotiating with other countries to solve sea disputes. But if a situation turns ugly, some military action is necessary.

This public sentiment will influence China's future foreign policy. Countries currently in sea disputes with China may have failed to spot this tendency, as they still perceive China through conventional wisdom. Thus, the South China Sea, as well as other sensitive sea areas, will have a higher risk of serious clashes.

If these countries don't want to change their ways with China, they will need to prepare for the sounds of cannons. We need to be ready for that, as it may be the only way for the disputes in the sea to be resolved.

Conflicts and disputes over the sovereignty of the seas in East Asia and South Asia are complicated. No known method exists to solve these issues in a peaceful way. Although China has proposed a strategy that calls for countries in the region to put away differences and work on shared interests, few have responded.

The reality is that each country in the region believes it has what it takes to force China to bow down. China wants to remain calm but it is a lonely role to play. China will have to adjust itself for this reality."
 
Martian your stuffs are too heavy for those trolls to handle,

you will get lots of funny people hit their nutcases against reality
 
Yep, Martian so far is the best troll killer here, any troll who wants to challenge him in a debate is simply no different than committing the suicide.

You got your butt whooped hard by the Korean "bigwin80" in another topic don't you remember?
 
It's been a while...

1. A great Thread! Thumb up Matians! (so how does Martian Airways look like,mate? :lol:)

2. To be honest, I have to disagree with one of Martians' remarks on India's immediate future, namely "can't escape Mid-income Trap". Instead I'd say that India would not escape "low-income trap" in the forseeable future as things go, if you take Thailand as a sort of "gatekeeper" of Lower-middle income benchmark. It's because that India as a 1.3 billion "country" as they call it before its eventual collapse into numerous smaller bronze age entities, has and will have a chance next to slim, if not closer to zero, to reach Thailand's gdp/cap level (roughly what China is today) by any optimistic measure.

Iliteracy, sheer comtempts for women, inter-castes hatred, top-down corruptions, multi "political"(i.e. it's tribal in essence) party conflicts, stone-age extreme religions, sub-sahara-level infras AND birth rate, widespread malnutrition/starvation, and ultimately you guesses it,low-average IQ (we'll never know if the low iq the effect of those or the original cause, at least on liberal paper ) eternally doom the post-WWII faux concept of "India" into oblivion.

"middle-income trap"? you wish to reach higher-low income one.

3. Go easy guys, ephone is NOT a troll. He/She just happens to hold a different view on this $30b. For a healthy thread, a genuine different point of view is normal.

4. At the first glance me too frowned upon this debt forgiven scheme suspiciously akin to the previous ones that benefitted no one (yet always on the expenses of hard working Chinese common folks) but the ego of CCP and swiss bank accounts of some Zulus, except two things. one, 50% of forgiven loans on raillines which I suspect are used also for transporting raw materials of mines (?) alongside the locals, and two, 30 billions for 35 countries roughly meaning 1 billion each could be well worth it , depending on the details naturally, provided any potential goodwill and the resulted mid to long term strategic advantage/s. Don't you think so, ephone?
 
It's been a while...

1. A great Thread! Thumb up Matians! (so how does Martian Airways look like,mate? :lol:)

2. To be honest, I have to disagree with one of Martians' remarks on India's immediate future, namely "can't escape Mid-income Trap". Instead I'd say that India would not escape "low-income trap" in the forseeable future as things go, if you take Thailand as a sort of "gatekeeper" of Lower-middle income benchmark. It's because that India as a 1.3 billion "country" as they call it before its eventual collapse into numerous smaller bronze age entities, has and will have a chance next to slim, if not closer to zero, to reach Thailand's gdp/cap level (roughly what China is today) by any optimistic measure.

Iliteracy, sheer comtempts for women, inter-castes hatred, top-down corruptions, multi "political"(i.e. it's tribal in essence) party conflicts, stone-age extreme religions, sub-sahara-level infras AND birth rate, widespread malnutrition/starvation, and ultimately you guesses it,low-average IQ (we'll never know if the low iq the effect of those or the original cause, at least on liberal paper ) eternally doom the post-WWII faux concept of "India" into oblivion.

"middle-income trap"? you wish to reach higher-low income one.

3. Go easy guys, ephone is NOT a troll. He/She just happens to hold a different view on this $30b. For a healthy thread, a genuine different point of view is normal.

4. At the first glance me too frowned upon this debt forgiven scheme suspiciously akin to the previous ones that benefitted no one (yet always on the expenses of hard working Chinese common folks) but the ego of CCP and swiss bank accounts of some Zulus, except two things. one, 50% of forgiven loans on raillines which I suspect are used also for transporting raw materials of mines (?) alongside the locals, and two, 30 billions for 35 countries roughly meaning 1 billion each could be well worth it , depending on the details naturally, provided any potential goodwill and the resulted mid to long term strategic advantage/s. Don't you think so, ephone?

Hope Thai can escape the middle-income trap,55555555555
 
It's been a while...

1. A great Thread! Thumb up Matians! (so how does Martian Airways look like,mate? :lol:)

2. To be honest, I have to disagree with one of Martians' remarks on India's immediate future, namely "can't escape Mid-income Trap". Instead I'd say that India would not escape "low-income trap" in the forseeable future as things go, if you take Thailand as a sort of "gatekeeper" of Lower-middle income benchmark. It's because that India as a 1.3 billion "country" as they call it before its eventual collapse into numerous smaller bronze age entities, has and will have a chance next to slim, if not closer to zero, to reach Thailand's gdp/cap level (roughly what China is today) by any optimistic measure.

Iliteracy, sheer comtempts for women, inter-castes hatred, top-down corruptions, multi "political"(i.e. it's tribal in essence) party conflicts, stone-age extreme religions, sub-sahara-level infras AND birth rate, widespread malnutrition/starvation, and ultimately you guesses it,low-average IQ (we'll never know if the low iq the effect of those or the original cause, at least on liberal paper ) eternally doom the post-WWII faux concept of "India" into oblivion.

"middle-income trap"? you wish to reach higher-low income one.

3. Go easy guys, ephone is NOT a troll. He/She just happens to hold a different view on this $30b. For a healthy thread, a genuine different point of view is normal.

4. At the first glance me too frowned upon this debt forgiven scheme suspiciously akin to the previous ones that benefitted no one (yet always on the expenses of hard working Chinese common folks) but the ego of CCP and swiss bank accounts of some Zulus, except two things. one, 50% of forgiven loans on raillines which I suspect are used also for transporting raw materials of mines (?) alongside the locals, and two, 30 billions for 35 countries roughly meaning 1 billion each could be well worth it , depending on the details naturally, provided any potential goodwill and the resulted mid to long term strategic advantage/s. Don't you think so, ephone?


If South Asians have such a low IQ, then why does a school in my home town that is more than 80% South Asian have the best GCSE results in the town when there are lot of other schools that have predominantly white kids that perform much worse?
 
Martian2 said:
3. The countries surrounding China are all hostile. I would rather China help all African nations industrialize then help Vietnam or the Philippines. Let the Vietnamese and the Filipinos stay in the Stone Age forever. When neighbors are merely pawns of a foreign Western power, China should never give them one cent in aid. Ever.
Oh, you should be the next China president instead of Mr.Xi Jinping , then you can demand to take back 200 million USD he just gave to VN :pop:
 
If South Asians have such a low IQ, then why does a school in my home town that is more than 80% South Asian have the best GCSE results in the town when there are lot of other schools that have predominantly white kids that perform much worse?

I personally think S.Asians and E.Asians are quite on par when it comes to the IQ level, but so far India being lagging behind China is because their management problems and inefficiency.

The best graduated Indian engineers are now working for USA, not for India.
 
If South Asians have such a low IQ, then why does a school in my home town that is more than 80% South Asian have the best GCSE results in the town when there are lot of other schools that have predominantly white kids that perform much worse?

South Asians overseas have one of the highest IQs in the world: 112.

Low tested IQ could be due to caste system and poverty.

It was not long ago (100 years) that Chinese were considered dumb inferior gooks.
 

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