China canceled $30 billion in debts by 35 African countries
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Martian2
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Thanks to R0H1T, my China-Africa thread has turned into a China-India thread. I might as well finish the discussion on Sino-Indian relations.
The Chinese combined-arms exercises on the Tibetan plateau show that China will hammer India with air power (J-10, J-11B, Su-27, and Su-30), attack helicopters, armor columns, and mobile heavy artillery (e.g. MLRS and howitzers) in the next Sino-Indian war.
Though it is not shown in the photographs, the opening salvo in the next Sino-Indian war will most likely start with a massive attack by Chinese cruise missiles on Indian military installations.
The Indians better say their prayers. They're not going to last very long against that much Chinese firepower.
Joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area_XINHUANET
English.news.cn | 2011-10-22 08:37:23 | Editor: An
A photo taken in this Autumn shows the army aviation troop taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Xing'an)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a Jian-10 fighter taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Xing'an)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a self-propelled weapon system of missile and gun taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows tanks taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a Jian-10 fighter taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows the tanks during a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a Jian-11 fighter taking off during a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a Jian-11 fighter sending infrared decoy during a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
[Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the post.]
The Chinese combined-arms exercises on the Tibetan plateau show that China will hammer India with air power (J-10, J-11B, Su-27, and Su-30), attack helicopters, armor columns, and mobile heavy artillery (e.g. MLRS and howitzers) in the next Sino-Indian war.
Though it is not shown in the photographs, the opening salvo in the next Sino-Indian war will most likely start with a massive attack by Chinese cruise missiles on Indian military installations.
The Indians better say their prayers. They're not going to last very long against that much Chinese firepower.
Joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area_XINHUANET
English.news.cn | 2011-10-22 08:37:23 | Editor: An
A photo taken in this Autumn shows the army aviation troop taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Xing'an)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a Jian-10 fighter taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Xing'an)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a self-propelled weapon system of missile and gun taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows tanks taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a Jian-10 fighter taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows the tanks during a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a Jian-11 fighter taking off during a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a Jian-11 fighter sending infrared decoy during a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
[Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the post.]
Martian2
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Joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area_XINHUANET
A photo taken in this Autumn shows rocket guns taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Zhao Haibo)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a self-propelled howitzer taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Xing'an)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a Jian-11 fighter taking part during a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows cannons taking part during a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Zhao Haibo)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows infantry taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a soldier using a portable air-defence missile during a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows infantry with machine gun taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
[Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the post.]
A photo taken in this Autumn shows rocket guns taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Zhao Haibo)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a self-propelled howitzer taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Xing'an)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a Jian-11 fighter taking part during a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows cannons taking part during a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Zhao Haibo)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows infantry taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a soldier using a portable air-defence missile during a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows infantry with machine gun taking part in a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
A photo taken in this Autumn shows a joint military drill of air and land forces held on west China's plateau area which reached an altitude of 4,500 meters above the sea level. (Xinhua/Liu Yinghua)
[Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the post.]
Martian2
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Continuation of analysis
1. India's air force is 1/3 the size of China's
2. India's air force is qualitatively inferior to the Chinese air force. Simply too many Mig-21s in the Indian air force (see http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/mig-21s-...-by-2017-124828).
3. India's military budget is 1/3 the size of China's (e.g. $30 billion vs. $90 billion; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...ry_expenditures).
4. Indian troops are less well-trained and equipped than their richer Chinese counterparts.
5. India has a defense industry with far lower technological capability (e.g. buying light carbines, howitzers, and asking Russians to fix Smerch MLRS). While India is hoping to build a howitzer prototype by 2013 based on a foreign design and blueprint, China is perfecting its J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighter. There is a gigantic chasm between the Chinese military-industrial-complex and the Indian version.
Once you look at the complete picture, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that 100,000 more Indian troops (see Indian army to recruit one lakh soldiers for China border) will barely slow down the Chinese military machine. 100,000 Indian troops would have made a big difference during World War I (circa 1914), but not against a modern mechanized opponent. India needs a technological response; not a manpower response. I want to hear what the Indian military plans to do about the following issues:
1. Prevent China from shooting down the one or two Indian military/spy satellites, which will render India blind.
2. Attacking Chinese Beidou GPS and dedicated military satellites. If you can't disable Chinese satellites, they will have a complete situational awareness of the Sino-Indian battlefield.
3. How does India plan to rectify the huge imbalance in the quality and quantity of air power? How in the world is India going to stop the Chinese from gaining air superiority and raining down death from above on Indian troops?
4. How does India plan to mitigate the complete destruction of its military installations and infrastructure from hundreds (or thousands) of Chinese cruise and/or ballistic missiles?
5. How does India plan to handle Chinese attack helicopters and armor columns?
6. How does India plan to slow down the Chinese combined-arms military machine? How does India plan to handle China's blitzkrieg?
As far as I know, India has no answers to any of these questions. In 1962, India was defeated in 31 days by a small fraction of the PLA's forces. How does India plan to last for more than a month against today's far more powerful PLA?
----------
http://ibnlive.in.com/generalnewsfeed/news...hes/884535.html
"Indian Army's Russian Smerch rocket launchers facing hitches
PTI | 06:11 PM,Nov 02,2011
New Delhi, Nov 2 (PTI) Army has detected problems in its Russian-origin Smerch multi-barrel rocket launchers (MBRL) and complained to Moscow about it. There are problems in the barrels of some of these rocket launchers and we have told the Russians about the issues related to firing of the system, senior Army sources told PTI here. The Smerch rocket launchers are the latest inductions of the Indian Army after a deal was signed for their procurement in December 2005 for more than Rs 2,600 crore. The sources said the Russians will be visiting India to look into the issue and try to rectify the problems in the system. The issue is understood to have come up for discussion during the Indo-Russian Inter-Governmental Commission on Military-Technical Cooperation meeting between the Defence Ministers of the two countries earlier this month. The system has had several defects in its launch vehicles, outlaying fire controls and data transmission, which led to delays in its operationalisation in the service, the sources said. The Smerch long range rocket systems have a range of over 60 kms, almost three times the distance of the present Indian artillery rocket systems. India had signed two deals in December 2005, and March 2007, with Russian firm Rosoboronexport for importing 42 of the MBRL systems along with launcher, transloader and command and control systems. Smerch MBRL along with the Russian-origin Grad 122 mm rocket systems and indigenous Pinaka form the important part of the Indian Army's firepower."
1. India's air force is 1/3 the size of China's
2. India's air force is qualitatively inferior to the Chinese air force. Simply too many Mig-21s in the Indian air force (see http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/mig-21s-...-by-2017-124828).
3. India's military budget is 1/3 the size of China's (e.g. $30 billion vs. $90 billion; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...ry_expenditures).
4. Indian troops are less well-trained and equipped than their richer Chinese counterparts.
5. India has a defense industry with far lower technological capability (e.g. buying light carbines, howitzers, and asking Russians to fix Smerch MLRS). While India is hoping to build a howitzer prototype by 2013 based on a foreign design and blueprint, China is perfecting its J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighter. There is a gigantic chasm between the Chinese military-industrial-complex and the Indian version.
Once you look at the complete picture, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that 100,000 more Indian troops (see Indian army to recruit one lakh soldiers for China border) will barely slow down the Chinese military machine. 100,000 Indian troops would have made a big difference during World War I (circa 1914), but not against a modern mechanized opponent. India needs a technological response; not a manpower response. I want to hear what the Indian military plans to do about the following issues:
1. Prevent China from shooting down the one or two Indian military/spy satellites, which will render India blind.
2. Attacking Chinese Beidou GPS and dedicated military satellites. If you can't disable Chinese satellites, they will have a complete situational awareness of the Sino-Indian battlefield.
3. How does India plan to rectify the huge imbalance in the quality and quantity of air power? How in the world is India going to stop the Chinese from gaining air superiority and raining down death from above on Indian troops?
4. How does India plan to mitigate the complete destruction of its military installations and infrastructure from hundreds (or thousands) of Chinese cruise and/or ballistic missiles?
5. How does India plan to handle Chinese attack helicopters and armor columns?
6. How does India plan to slow down the Chinese combined-arms military machine? How does India plan to handle China's blitzkrieg?
As far as I know, India has no answers to any of these questions. In 1962, India was defeated in 31 days by a small fraction of the PLA's forces. How does India plan to last for more than a month against today's far more powerful PLA?
----------
http://ibnlive.in.com/generalnewsfeed/news...hes/884535.html
"Indian Army's Russian Smerch rocket launchers facing hitches
PTI | 06:11 PM,Nov 02,2011
New Delhi, Nov 2 (PTI) Army has detected problems in its Russian-origin Smerch multi-barrel rocket launchers (MBRL) and complained to Moscow about it. There are problems in the barrels of some of these rocket launchers and we have told the Russians about the issues related to firing of the system, senior Army sources told PTI here. The Smerch rocket launchers are the latest inductions of the Indian Army after a deal was signed for their procurement in December 2005 for more than Rs 2,600 crore. The sources said the Russians will be visiting India to look into the issue and try to rectify the problems in the system. The issue is understood to have come up for discussion during the Indo-Russian Inter-Governmental Commission on Military-Technical Cooperation meeting between the Defence Ministers of the two countries earlier this month. The system has had several defects in its launch vehicles, outlaying fire controls and data transmission, which led to delays in its operationalisation in the service, the sources said. The Smerch long range rocket systems have a range of over 60 kms, almost three times the distance of the present Indian artillery rocket systems. India had signed two deals in December 2005, and March 2007, with Russian firm Rosoboronexport for importing 42 of the MBRL systems along with launcher, transloader and command and control systems. Smerch MBRL along with the Russian-origin Grad 122 mm rocket systems and indigenous Pinaka form the important part of the Indian Army's firepower."
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Martian2
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More cannon fodder
The Indian approach is flawed. Throwing 100,000 more troops (see Indian army to recruit one lakh soldiers for China border ) at China's mechanized military is foolish. The Chinese military machine will bomb those 100,000 Indians and move on.
India's fundamental problem is that it has no answer for China's advanced modern weaponry. 100,000 troops do not constitute an asymmetric response. The Indians need to provide the outline of a plan that would give them a fighting chance.
For example, China developed Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles (i.e. ASBMs) to sink American aircraft carriers. Furthermore, China has tightly integrated its air defenses against fourth-generation fighters. Also, China has thousands of ballistic missiles to destroy Japanese air bases that may host U.S. F-22 fighters. That's called an asymmetric response and a reasonable war plan.
The Indians lack a comprehensive technological and methodical plan to respond to China's overwhelming military power.
----------
After establishing air superiority, it will require only a few days of "Chinese Rolling Thunder" to eliminate 100,000 Indian troops on the ground.
China's H-6K "God of War" Bomber
H-6K bomber
H-6M Bombs Away!
Chinese Rolling Thunder!
[Note: Thank you to A.Man for the first picture and Deino for the second caption.]
The Indian approach is flawed. Throwing 100,000 more troops (see Indian army to recruit one lakh soldiers for China border ) at China's mechanized military is foolish. The Chinese military machine will bomb those 100,000 Indians and move on.
India's fundamental problem is that it has no answer for China's advanced modern weaponry. 100,000 troops do not constitute an asymmetric response. The Indians need to provide the outline of a plan that would give them a fighting chance.
For example, China developed Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles (i.e. ASBMs) to sink American aircraft carriers. Furthermore, China has tightly integrated its air defenses against fourth-generation fighters. Also, China has thousands of ballistic missiles to destroy Japanese air bases that may host U.S. F-22 fighters. That's called an asymmetric response and a reasonable war plan.
The Indians lack a comprehensive technological and methodical plan to respond to China's overwhelming military power.
----------
After establishing air superiority, it will require only a few days of "Chinese Rolling Thunder" to eliminate 100,000 Indian troops on the ground.
China's H-6K "God of War" Bomber
H-6K bomber
H-6M Bombs Away!
Chinese Rolling Thunder!
[Note: Thank you to A.Man for the first picture and Deino for the second caption.]
Martian2
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China "has launched about 30 military spacecraft." India has launched zero.
In the next Sino-Indian war, China has at least 30 military spacecraft to observe the conflict. Keep in mind that China is continuously launching more military satellites each year. India is still trying to launch its first military satellite.
When war breaks out, China will use its ASAT (Anti-SATellite missile) to destroy the lone or few Indian satellites. While China can closely follow military developments in real time, India has no clue what is happening. Fighting a far superior opponent and being blind to events on the battlefield are a recipe for another Indian military disaster.
The following citations prove that China has dozens of military satellites and India has none. Since one country can observe the battlefield and the other cannot, who do you think is going to win the next border war?
China's Military Space Surge | SpaceRef - Your Space Reference
"China's Military Space Surge
By Craig Covault, Aerospace America
Posted Wednesday, March 9, 2011
China's surging military space program is poised to challenge U.S. aircraft carrier operations in the Pacific, as Chinese military spacecraft already gather significant new radar, electrooptical imaging, and signal intelligence data globally.
During 2010, China more than doubled its military satellite launch rate to 12. This compares with three to five military missions launched each year between 2006 and 2009. Since 2006, China has launched about 30 military related spacecraft. Its total of 15 launches in 2010 set a new record for China and for the first time equaled the U.S. flight rate for a given year.
Most U.S. public and media attention has focused on China's occasional manned flights and its maturing unmanned lunar program. But China's military space surge reveals a program where more than half of its spacecraft are like 'wolves in sheep's clothing,' posing a growing threat to U.S. Navy operations in the Pacific. India's navy is also concerned.
"This is a really big deal. These military spacecraft are being launched at a very rapid pace" says Andrew S. Erickson, a Naval War College expert on China's naval and space forces. China is becoming a military space power within a global context." At least three or four different Chinese military satellite systems are being networked to support China's 1,500 km+ range DF-21D antiship ballistic missile (ASBM) program, say U.S. analysts. The DF-21D is being designed to force U.S. Navy aircraft carrier battle groups and other large U.S. allied warships to operate hundreds of miles farther away from China or North Korea than they do today.
The ASBM "has undergone repeated tests and has reached initial operational capability," Adm. Robert Willard, commander of the U.S. Pacific Command said recently in Tokyo. The new Chinese space capabilities, combined with development of the DF-21D, are already having an effect on the planning of future operations in the Pacific, says Secretary of Defense Robert Gates.
"I'm trying to get people to think about how do we use aircraft carriers in a world environment where other countries [China specifically] will have the capability, between their missile and satellite capabilities, to knock out a carrier," Gates said recently at Duke University. "How do you use carriers differently in the future than we've used them in the past?" he asked.
The full article appears in the March 2011 issue of Aerospace America published by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA)."
----------
Military satellite delayed again by a year - Times Of India
"Military satellite delayed again by a year
Rajat Pandit, TNN Oct 13, 2011, 04.47AM IST
NEW DELHI: PM Manmohan Singh may wax eloquent that the military will be equipped with "all necessary means to meet all threats", including those "which go beyond conventional warfare", but no sense of urgency is being shown in the space arena.
Indian armed forces are still to get their own dedicated surveillance and communication satellites despite several years of promises and plans, leave alone offensive space capabilities like ASAT (anti-satellite) weapons or advanced directed-energy laser weapons.
Moreover, the government continues to keep the desperately-needed tri-Service Aerospace Command in cold storage, even though China has taken to the military exploitation of space, which includes ASAT capabilities, in a major way.
Top defence officials admit the much-awaited launch of the naval communication and surveillance satellite, "Rohini", has been once again delayed by a year or so. Satellites for Army-IAF will only follow thereafter.
Incidentally, during the naval commanders' conference in 2009, defence minister A K Antony had declared that the satellite to boost connectivity over sea would be launched in early-2010.
Subsequently, Indian Space Research Organization ( ISRO) had revised the satellite's "launch window" to December 2010-March 2011. But to no avail.
"There has been another big delay now...it won't be possible before end-2012 at the earliest," said an official, even as all top military commanders are currently in New Delhi for their annual brain-storming sessions.
"The problem is the repeated failures of GSLV (geosynchronous satellite launch vehicle) and indigenous cryogenic engines (ISRO is now left with only one of the cryogenic engines imported from Russia)," he added.
With no early launch in sight, talk is gaining ground that India should contemplate a foreign launcher for its GSAT-7 series of military satellites.
The 2,330-kg naval satellite is supposed to have an around 1,000 nautical mile footprint over Indian Ocean, stretching from Red Sea to Malacca Strait, to ensure "network-centric operations" and "maritime domain awareness". The IAF-Army one, in turn, will have a similar footprint over land.
The Defence Space Vision-2020 identified only intelligence, reconnaissance, surveillance, communication and navigation as the thrust areas in Phase-I till 2012. But even such capabilities, which include the critical necessity to keep 24x7 tabs on enemy troop movements, warships, airbases and missile silos as well as bolster surveillance over Indian airspace, will remain limited in the absence of dedicated military satellites.
Interestingly, while India is publicly opposed to "militarization of space", the defence ministry last year had come out with a "Technology Perspective and Capability Roadmap" till 2025 which identified space warfare as a priority area, as was first reported by TOI."
In the next Sino-Indian war, China has at least 30 military spacecraft to observe the conflict. Keep in mind that China is continuously launching more military satellites each year. India is still trying to launch its first military satellite.
When war breaks out, China will use its ASAT (Anti-SATellite missile) to destroy the lone or few Indian satellites. While China can closely follow military developments in real time, India has no clue what is happening. Fighting a far superior opponent and being blind to events on the battlefield are a recipe for another Indian military disaster.
The following citations prove that China has dozens of military satellites and India has none. Since one country can observe the battlefield and the other cannot, who do you think is going to win the next border war?
China's Military Space Surge | SpaceRef - Your Space Reference
"China's Military Space Surge
By Craig Covault, Aerospace America
Posted Wednesday, March 9, 2011
China's surging military space program is poised to challenge U.S. aircraft carrier operations in the Pacific, as Chinese military spacecraft already gather significant new radar, electrooptical imaging, and signal intelligence data globally.
During 2010, China more than doubled its military satellite launch rate to 12. This compares with three to five military missions launched each year between 2006 and 2009. Since 2006, China has launched about 30 military related spacecraft. Its total of 15 launches in 2010 set a new record for China and for the first time equaled the U.S. flight rate for a given year.
Most U.S. public and media attention has focused on China's occasional manned flights and its maturing unmanned lunar program. But China's military space surge reveals a program where more than half of its spacecraft are like 'wolves in sheep's clothing,' posing a growing threat to U.S. Navy operations in the Pacific. India's navy is also concerned.
"This is a really big deal. These military spacecraft are being launched at a very rapid pace" says Andrew S. Erickson, a Naval War College expert on China's naval and space forces. China is becoming a military space power within a global context." At least three or four different Chinese military satellite systems are being networked to support China's 1,500 km+ range DF-21D antiship ballistic missile (ASBM) program, say U.S. analysts. The DF-21D is being designed to force U.S. Navy aircraft carrier battle groups and other large U.S. allied warships to operate hundreds of miles farther away from China or North Korea than they do today.
The ASBM "has undergone repeated tests and has reached initial operational capability," Adm. Robert Willard, commander of the U.S. Pacific Command said recently in Tokyo. The new Chinese space capabilities, combined with development of the DF-21D, are already having an effect on the planning of future operations in the Pacific, says Secretary of Defense Robert Gates.
"I'm trying to get people to think about how do we use aircraft carriers in a world environment where other countries [China specifically] will have the capability, between their missile and satellite capabilities, to knock out a carrier," Gates said recently at Duke University. "How do you use carriers differently in the future than we've used them in the past?" he asked.
The full article appears in the March 2011 issue of Aerospace America published by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA)."
----------
Military satellite delayed again by a year - Times Of India
"Military satellite delayed again by a year
Rajat Pandit, TNN Oct 13, 2011, 04.47AM IST
NEW DELHI: PM Manmohan Singh may wax eloquent that the military will be equipped with "all necessary means to meet all threats", including those "which go beyond conventional warfare", but no sense of urgency is being shown in the space arena.
Indian armed forces are still to get their own dedicated surveillance and communication satellites despite several years of promises and plans, leave alone offensive space capabilities like ASAT (anti-satellite) weapons or advanced directed-energy laser weapons.
Moreover, the government continues to keep the desperately-needed tri-Service Aerospace Command in cold storage, even though China has taken to the military exploitation of space, which includes ASAT capabilities, in a major way.
Top defence officials admit the much-awaited launch of the naval communication and surveillance satellite, "Rohini", has been once again delayed by a year or so. Satellites for Army-IAF will only follow thereafter.
Incidentally, during the naval commanders' conference in 2009, defence minister A K Antony had declared that the satellite to boost connectivity over sea would be launched in early-2010.
Subsequently, Indian Space Research Organization ( ISRO) had revised the satellite's "launch window" to December 2010-March 2011. But to no avail.
"There has been another big delay now...it won't be possible before end-2012 at the earliest," said an official, even as all top military commanders are currently in New Delhi for their annual brain-storming sessions.
"The problem is the repeated failures of GSLV (geosynchronous satellite launch vehicle) and indigenous cryogenic engines (ISRO is now left with only one of the cryogenic engines imported from Russia)," he added.
With no early launch in sight, talk is gaining ground that India should contemplate a foreign launcher for its GSAT-7 series of military satellites.
The 2,330-kg naval satellite is supposed to have an around 1,000 nautical mile footprint over Indian Ocean, stretching from Red Sea to Malacca Strait, to ensure "network-centric operations" and "maritime domain awareness". The IAF-Army one, in turn, will have a similar footprint over land.
The Defence Space Vision-2020 identified only intelligence, reconnaissance, surveillance, communication and navigation as the thrust areas in Phase-I till 2012. But even such capabilities, which include the critical necessity to keep 24x7 tabs on enemy troop movements, warships, airbases and missile silos as well as bolster surveillance over Indian airspace, will remain limited in the absence of dedicated military satellites.
Interestingly, while India is publicly opposed to "militarization of space", the defence ministry last year had come out with a "Technology Perspective and Capability Roadmap" till 2025 which identified space warfare as a priority area, as was first reported by TOI."
Martian2
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China's J-STARS
In the next Sino-Indian war, China controls the high ground and this will spell doom for India.
1. China controls the ultimate high ground of space. With its operational Beidou-2 navigational system of GPS satellites (see citation below), China can deliver a GPS-guided cruise (or ballistic) missile onto any Indian military target that it sees.
In an earlier post, I provided a citation for 30 Chinese military-related satellites and the lack of a single dedicated Indian military satellite. With the advantage of dozens of Chinese spy satellites, China can see the Sino-Indian battlefield in realtime and continuously bomb any concentration of Indian troops or military assets.
2. China has 1,800 short-range ballistic missiles (SRBMs) facing Taiwan that can be redeployed to the Sino-Indian battlefield. Obviously, China has plenty more SRBMs in storage for use against Japan and South Korea. Altogether, the Chinese arsenal numbers in the thousands of SRBMs and cruise missiles. If China desires, it can move into a war-production mode and manufacture a few more thousands of missiles from its efficient factories.
The thousands of Chinese SRBMs and cruise missiles will deal a hammer blow to Indian military units. During the opening days of the next Sino-Indian war, the Indian military will be left in tatters as its airbases and army bases are shredded by thousands of Chinese cruise and ballistic missiles, which are guided to their targets by the Beidou-2 navigational system.
3. After delivering devastation to Indian military units with Chinese missiles, China's thrice-larger air force (with more modern fighters than India's) will quickly dominate the airspace. This is where China's J-STARS enter the picture to efficiently identify Indian ground targets for elimination.
4. China has at least four J-STARS (or Tu-154M/D Careless) for ELINT (i.e. ELectronic INTelligence).
Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force
"Tu-154M/D Careless
A number of Tu-154M/Ds (Type I/II) have been converted into ELINT aircraft, even through they are disguised under the cover of a civilian China United Airline registration. While Type I were believed to carry a BM/KZ800 ELINT system, Type II features a canoe shaped fairing under the fuselage which has been speculated to house an experimental synthetic aperture radar (SAR) to provide high-resolution ground mapping images, a capability similar to American E-8 J-STARS. Besides the SAR radar, the aircraft still retains some original EW and ELINT equipment, as indicated by the semi-spherical fairings and other small antennas under the rear fuselage. So far there are at least 4 of these modified Tu-154M/Ds (B-4015, B-4024, B-4029 & B-4138). Tu-154M/D (Type I) first entered the service with PLAAF in 1995.
- Last Updated 5/2/11"
Chinese J-STAR B-4015 with "an enlarged under-fuselage fairing reportedly accommodating a ground-mapping synthetic aperture radar."
Chinese J-STAR B-4024
Chinese J-STAR B-4029
Chinese J-STAR B-4138
This video discusses the capabilities of an American J-STAR. We can expect comparable functionality from a Chinese J-STAR.
E-8A Joint Surveillance Target Attack Radar System (Joint STARS) - YouTube
Modern J-STARs have upgraded displays.
JointSTARS.wmv - YouTube
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Spirent Adds Compass/BeiDou-2 Capability to GSS8000 Simulator | Inside GNSS
"Spirent Adds Compass/BeiDou-2 Capability to GSS8000 Simulator
October 28, 2011
...
The Compass system is a project by China to develop an independent global satellite navigation system. The system is being deployed in three phases. Beidou-2, the second phase, is reported to be on track to be operational by early 2012 and will support regional operation from a network of geostationary and inclined orbit satellites."
In the next Sino-Indian war, China controls the high ground and this will spell doom for India.
1. China controls the ultimate high ground of space. With its operational Beidou-2 navigational system of GPS satellites (see citation below), China can deliver a GPS-guided cruise (or ballistic) missile onto any Indian military target that it sees.
In an earlier post, I provided a citation for 30 Chinese military-related satellites and the lack of a single dedicated Indian military satellite. With the advantage of dozens of Chinese spy satellites, China can see the Sino-Indian battlefield in realtime and continuously bomb any concentration of Indian troops or military assets.
2. China has 1,800 short-range ballistic missiles (SRBMs) facing Taiwan that can be redeployed to the Sino-Indian battlefield. Obviously, China has plenty more SRBMs in storage for use against Japan and South Korea. Altogether, the Chinese arsenal numbers in the thousands of SRBMs and cruise missiles. If China desires, it can move into a war-production mode and manufacture a few more thousands of missiles from its efficient factories.
The thousands of Chinese SRBMs and cruise missiles will deal a hammer blow to Indian military units. During the opening days of the next Sino-Indian war, the Indian military will be left in tatters as its airbases and army bases are shredded by thousands of Chinese cruise and ballistic missiles, which are guided to their targets by the Beidou-2 navigational system.
3. After delivering devastation to Indian military units with Chinese missiles, China's thrice-larger air force (with more modern fighters than India's) will quickly dominate the airspace. This is where China's J-STARS enter the picture to efficiently identify Indian ground targets for elimination.
4. China has at least four J-STARS (or Tu-154M/D Careless) for ELINT (i.e. ELectronic INTelligence).
Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force
"Tu-154M/D Careless
A number of Tu-154M/Ds (Type I/II) have been converted into ELINT aircraft, even through they are disguised under the cover of a civilian China United Airline registration. While Type I were believed to carry a BM/KZ800 ELINT system, Type II features a canoe shaped fairing under the fuselage which has been speculated to house an experimental synthetic aperture radar (SAR) to provide high-resolution ground mapping images, a capability similar to American E-8 J-STARS. Besides the SAR radar, the aircraft still retains some original EW and ELINT equipment, as indicated by the semi-spherical fairings and other small antennas under the rear fuselage. So far there are at least 4 of these modified Tu-154M/Ds (B-4015, B-4024, B-4029 & B-4138). Tu-154M/D (Type I) first entered the service with PLAAF in 1995.
- Last Updated 5/2/11"
Chinese J-STAR B-4015 with "an enlarged under-fuselage fairing reportedly accommodating a ground-mapping synthetic aperture radar."
Chinese J-STAR B-4024
Chinese J-STAR B-4029
Chinese J-STAR B-4138
This video discusses the capabilities of an American J-STAR. We can expect comparable functionality from a Chinese J-STAR.
E-8A Joint Surveillance Target Attack Radar System (Joint STARS) - YouTube
Modern J-STARs have upgraded displays.
JointSTARS.wmv - YouTube
----------
Spirent Adds Compass/BeiDou-2 Capability to GSS8000 Simulator | Inside GNSS
"Spirent Adds Compass/BeiDou-2 Capability to GSS8000 Simulator
October 28, 2011
...
The Compass system is a project by China to develop an independent global satellite navigation system. The system is being deployed in three phases. Beidou-2, the second phase, is reported to be on track to be operational by early 2012 and will support regional operation from a network of geostationary and inclined orbit satellites."
karan.1970
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^ The chinese fan boys dont realize that the question for the next Sino Indian war is not who will win. The conclusion is obvious on that front. The trillion dollar question though is that will China be willing to accept the cost of that victory which will push it another 20-30 years behind USA than what it is now.. Thats the balance that exists between Pakistan and India.. Same balance exists between India and China
newdelhinsa
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Chinese exercise on Plateau means they fear India will attack Tibet through and through. Keep the dog and pony show propaganda pictures coming.
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BTW good if they are helping Africa.
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BTW good if they are helping Africa.
Martian2
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Four important lessons from 1962 Sino-Indian border war
1. When the People's Daily newspaper publishes an article warning you to back off, you better listen. It is a prelude to war. The Indians ignored the warning from the People's Daily in 1962 and they paid the price of defeat in the Sino-Indian border war.
This lesson is applicable today to Vietnam and the Philippines. After the People's Daily, Xinhua, and Global Times warned them of military action, Vietnamese and Filipino provocations in the South China Sea stopped.
Sino-Indian War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"On 22 September 1962, the People's Daily published an article which claimed that "the Chinese people were burning with 'great indignation' over the Indian actions on the border and that New Delhi could not 'now say that warning was not served in advance'."[37][38]
...
On 14 October, an editorial on People's Daily issued China's final warning to India: "So it seems that Mr. Nehru has made up his mind to attack the Chinese frontier guards on an even bigger scale....It is high time to shout to Mr. Nehru that the heroic Chinese troops, with the glorious tradition of resisting foreign aggression, can never be cleared by anyone from their own territory... If there are still some maniacs who are reckless enough to ignore our well-intentioned advice and insist on having another try, well, let them do so. History will pronounce its inexorable verdict... At this critical moment...we still want to appeal once more to Mr. Nehru: better rein in at the edge of the precipice and do not use the lives of Indian troops as stakes in your gamble." [38]"
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2. Chinese weaponry stationed across from Taiwan can be moved to the Indian sector. In 1962, China moved heavy artillery. In the current context, China can move 1,800 short-range ballistic missiles from the Taiwan sector for use against India.
Sino-Indian War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Chinese attention was diverted for a time by the military activity of the Nationalists on Taiwan, but on 23 June the U.S. assured China that a Nationalist invasion would not be permitted.[30] China's heavy artillery facing Taiwan could then be moved to Tibet.[31] It took China six to eight months to gather the resources needed for the war, according to Anil Athale, author of the official Indian history.[31] The Chinese sent a large quantity of non-military supplies to Tibet through the Indian port of Calcutta.[31]"
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3. PLA's blitzkrieg will slice through the enemy's best troops.
Sino-Indian War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Marshal Liu Bocheng headed a group to determine the strategy for the war. He concluded that the opposing Indian troops were among India's best, and to achieve victory would require deploying crack troops and relying on force concentration to achieve decisive victory. On 16 October, this war plan was approved, and on the 18th, the final approval was given by the Politburo for a "self-defensive counter-attack", scheduled for 20 October.[2]
...
At 5:14 am, Chinese mortar fire began attacking the Indian positions. Simultaneously, the Chinese cut the Indian telephone lines, preventing the defenders from making contact with their headquarters. At about 6:30 am, the Chinese infantry launched a surprise attack from the rear and forced the Indians to leave their trenches.[36]
The Chinese troops overwhelmed the Indians in a series of flanking manoeuvres south of the McMahon Line and prompted their withdrawal from Namka Chu.[36] Fearful of continued losses, Indian troops escaped into Bhutan. Chinese forces respected the border and did not pursue.[7] Chinese forces now held all of the territory that was under dispute at the time of the Thag La confrontation, but they continued to advance into the rest of NEFA.[36]
...
Western theatre
On the Aksai Chin front, China already controlled most of the disputed territory. Chinese forces quickly swept the region of any remaining Indian troops.[42] Late on 19 October, Chinese troops launched a number of attacks throughout the western theatre.[8] By 22 October, all posts north of Chushul had been cleared.[8]"
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4. In 1962, the United States rejected India's plea for military jets. Today, China is a well-armed thermonuclear power. What are the chances that the United States would be willing to supply India with a single bullet in the next Sino-Indian border war?
Sino-Indian War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Involvement of other nations
During the conflict, Nehru wrote two desperate letters to JFK, requesting 12 squadrons of fighter jets. These jets were necessary to beef up Indian air strength so that an air war could be initiated safely from the Indian perspective. This request was rejected. According to former Indian diplomat G Parthasarathy, "only after we got nothing from the US did arms supplies from the Soviet Union to India commence." [57] In 1962, President of Pakistan Ayub Khan made clear to India that Indian troops could safely be transferred from the Pakistan frontier to the Himalayas.[58]"
1. When the People's Daily newspaper publishes an article warning you to back off, you better listen. It is a prelude to war. The Indians ignored the warning from the People's Daily in 1962 and they paid the price of defeat in the Sino-Indian border war.
This lesson is applicable today to Vietnam and the Philippines. After the People's Daily, Xinhua, and Global Times warned them of military action, Vietnamese and Filipino provocations in the South China Sea stopped.
Sino-Indian War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"On 22 September 1962, the People's Daily published an article which claimed that "the Chinese people were burning with 'great indignation' over the Indian actions on the border and that New Delhi could not 'now say that warning was not served in advance'."[37][38]
...
On 14 October, an editorial on People's Daily issued China's final warning to India: "So it seems that Mr. Nehru has made up his mind to attack the Chinese frontier guards on an even bigger scale....It is high time to shout to Mr. Nehru that the heroic Chinese troops, with the glorious tradition of resisting foreign aggression, can never be cleared by anyone from their own territory... If there are still some maniacs who are reckless enough to ignore our well-intentioned advice and insist on having another try, well, let them do so. History will pronounce its inexorable verdict... At this critical moment...we still want to appeal once more to Mr. Nehru: better rein in at the edge of the precipice and do not use the lives of Indian troops as stakes in your gamble." [38]"
----------
2. Chinese weaponry stationed across from Taiwan can be moved to the Indian sector. In 1962, China moved heavy artillery. In the current context, China can move 1,800 short-range ballistic missiles from the Taiwan sector for use against India.
Sino-Indian War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Chinese attention was diverted for a time by the military activity of the Nationalists on Taiwan, but on 23 June the U.S. assured China that a Nationalist invasion would not be permitted.[30] China's heavy artillery facing Taiwan could then be moved to Tibet.[31] It took China six to eight months to gather the resources needed for the war, according to Anil Athale, author of the official Indian history.[31] The Chinese sent a large quantity of non-military supplies to Tibet through the Indian port of Calcutta.[31]"
----------
3. PLA's blitzkrieg will slice through the enemy's best troops.
Sino-Indian War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Marshal Liu Bocheng headed a group to determine the strategy for the war. He concluded that the opposing Indian troops were among India's best, and to achieve victory would require deploying crack troops and relying on force concentration to achieve decisive victory. On 16 October, this war plan was approved, and on the 18th, the final approval was given by the Politburo for a "self-defensive counter-attack", scheduled for 20 October.[2]
...
At 5:14 am, Chinese mortar fire began attacking the Indian positions. Simultaneously, the Chinese cut the Indian telephone lines, preventing the defenders from making contact with their headquarters. At about 6:30 am, the Chinese infantry launched a surprise attack from the rear and forced the Indians to leave their trenches.[36]
The Chinese troops overwhelmed the Indians in a series of flanking manoeuvres south of the McMahon Line and prompted their withdrawal from Namka Chu.[36] Fearful of continued losses, Indian troops escaped into Bhutan. Chinese forces respected the border and did not pursue.[7] Chinese forces now held all of the territory that was under dispute at the time of the Thag La confrontation, but they continued to advance into the rest of NEFA.[36]
...
Western theatre
On the Aksai Chin front, China already controlled most of the disputed territory. Chinese forces quickly swept the region of any remaining Indian troops.[42] Late on 19 October, Chinese troops launched a number of attacks throughout the western theatre.[8] By 22 October, all posts north of Chushul had been cleared.[8]"
----------
4. In 1962, the United States rejected India's plea for military jets. Today, China is a well-armed thermonuclear power. What are the chances that the United States would be willing to supply India with a single bullet in the next Sino-Indian border war?
Sino-Indian War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Involvement of other nations
During the conflict, Nehru wrote two desperate letters to JFK, requesting 12 squadrons of fighter jets. These jets were necessary to beef up Indian air strength so that an air war could be initiated safely from the Indian perspective. This request was rejected. According to former Indian diplomat G Parthasarathy, "only after we got nothing from the US did arms supplies from the Soviet Union to India commence." [57] In 1962, President of Pakistan Ayub Khan made clear to India that Indian troops could safely be transferred from the Pakistan frontier to the Himalayas.[58]"
Indians get excited every time the Sino-Indian war is brought up. It can't be helped, as they were even planning on moving the national Capital southwards.
Martian2
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My China-Africa thread has turned into a China-India thread. I might as well expand it to include Sino-U.S. relations.
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"I am going to put forward another prediction made on June 23, 1957. It hasn't happened yet or rather, partially has happened. But it seems to have more going for it than Gordon Chang's. Prediction made by a David Hawkins. He was one of the American soldiers who initially refused to return after the Korean war. Some like Hawkins eventually did return; some died in China; and one was made posthumously a citizen of the PRC.
When Hawkins eventually returned, he did an interview in 1957 with Michael Wallace.
Wallace : Do you believe the United States should recognise Red China?
Hawkins : Personally, I think they should.
Wallace : Why?
Hawkins : It's a very big thing. They have a very large land area. They have 650 million Chinese population and it's like um...like saying there's a big elephant in front of you and you say he's not there; until he becomes powerful enough to step on you.
Wallace : Do you expect they will become powerful enough to step on us.
Hawkins : I have no doubt."
[Note: Thank you to Unnamed Sweeper Monk for the post.]
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"I am going to put forward another prediction made on June 23, 1957. It hasn't happened yet or rather, partially has happened. But it seems to have more going for it than Gordon Chang's. Prediction made by a David Hawkins. He was one of the American soldiers who initially refused to return after the Korean war. Some like Hawkins eventually did return; some died in China; and one was made posthumously a citizen of the PRC.
When Hawkins eventually returned, he did an interview in 1957 with Michael Wallace.
Hawkins : Personally, I think they should.
Wallace : Why?
Hawkins : It's a very big thing. They have a very large land area. They have 650 million Chinese population and it's like um...like saying there's a big elephant in front of you and you say he's not there; until he becomes powerful enough to step on you.
Wallace : Do you expect they will become powerful enough to step on us.
Hawkins : I have no doubt."
[Note: Thank you to Unnamed Sweeper Monk for the post.]
Last edited by a moderator:
Our loans to those african countries are low interest loans. If they cannot pay that back, why the hell do we continue to loan them???
BTW, a lot of those african countries have per-capital GDP higher than that of China meaning they are richer than China. Why the hell can they not pay???
BTW, a lot of those african countries have per-capital GDP higher than that of China meaning they are richer than China. Why the hell can they not pay???
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