China and Japan must remember the spirit of their 1978 peace treaty

[UKBengali]

Isn't that the entire point of him setting up that user account?

To defame China by trying to make us look like lunatics?

Nobody in their right mind talks about using nukes in every single post.

Probably false flagger trying to make China look bad.

 

[gambit]

i agree with Gambit, the plaza accord was kind of necessary, and it avoided a trade war/protectionism.

Thank you, sir. You will find, if not already, that the Chinese members here usually do not think for the long term or alternatives, despite their oft repeated boasts on their innate intelligence. A protectionism trade war right now will hurt China more than US, but that alternative is covered up by ignorance and nationalism.

 

[Aepsilons]

Thank you, sir. You will find, if not already, that the Chinese members here usually do not think for the long term or alternatives, despite their oft repeated boasts on their innate intelligence. A protectionism trade war right now will hurt China more than US, but that alternative is covered up by ignorance and nationalism.

Well said.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Thank you, sir. You will find, if not already, that the Chinese members here usually do not think for the long term or alternatives, despite their oft repeated boasts on their innate intelligence. A protectionism trade war right now will hurt China more than US, but that alternative is covered up by ignorance and nationalism.

We are not going to do a one-off revaluation of the Yuan.

As for protectionism trade war, you're joking right? China has more currency reserves than the rest of the world combined, we can sustain a trade war longer than anyone else.

Not to mention America is already in negative GDP growth to start with. Even before any hypothetical trade war, they've already lost.

Plus, it's hard to take any American threats seriously. America has a mutual defence treaty with the Philippines, yet they did not stop us from seizing Scarborough shoal in 2012. Not to mention red lines being crossed at will in Syria, and broken promises to protect Ukraine's borders.

If America wants a trade war, they can start anytime. Maybe it will take their minds off their 0% interest rates and negative growth rates, the looming signs of a lost decade.

 

[gambit]

We are not going to do a one-off revaluation of the Yuan.

As for protectionism trade war, you're joking right? China has more currency reserves than the rest of the world combined, we can sustain a trade war longer than anyone else.

Not to mention America is already in negative GDP growth to start with. Even before any hypothetical trade war, they've already lost.

Plus, it's hard to take any American threats seriously. America has a mutual defence treaty with the Philippines, yet they did not stop us from seizing Scarborough shoal in 2012. Not to mention red lines being crossed at will in Syria, and broken promises to protect Ukraine's borders.

If America wants a trade war, they can start anytime. Maybe it will take their minds off their 0% interest rates and negative growth rates, the looming signs of a lost decade.

China is still export oriented. Over half of Chinese exports came from foreign owned companies doing business in China and they constantly seek out sources for lower cost labor outside of China. Merely a decade ago, Wal-Mart alone is ahead of Russia, Australia, and Canada in terms of trade partnership with China. How many Chinese still lives below the poverty line ? What is your government going to do, give every Chinese a few hundred yuan every few weeks from that reserve while they are unemployed ?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

China is still export oriented. Over half of Chinese exports came from foreign owned companies doing business in China and they constantly seek out sources for lower cost labor outside of China. Merely a decade ago, Wal-Mart alone is ahead of Russia, Australia, and Canada in terms of trade partnership with China. How many Chinese still lives below the poverty line ? What is your government going to do, give every Chinese a few hundred yuan every few weeks from that reserve while they are unemployed ?

Not for a long time now. News from a few years back:

Financial Times - China unlocks the right kind of growth

Tucked into its latest economic data was evidence that the country has finally started to address this problem. Consumption clearly surpassed investment as China’s biggest growth engine, reinforcing a trend that emerged earlier this year – and something that has rarely happened over the past decade.

In the first three quarters, consumption accounted for 55 per cent of growth, while investment contributed 50.5 per cent. With external demand weak, net exports actually subtracted 5.5 per cent, according to data from the national statistics bureau.

^^^ Consumption accounts for 55% of our economic growth, whereas domestic investment contributes around 50.5%.

Net exports actually subtracted from our growth by -5.5%.

Anyway, America is very welcome to start a trade war if they feel that serves their interests the best. Since the USA couldn't keep their promise to protect the territorial integrity of the Philippines from China in 2012, or Ukraine from Russia now, I guess a trade war will make them feel much better about themselves.

And what's the condition for winning a trade war? Forcing the other side into recession? America is already in negative growth.

Even your native country Vietnam has a better growth rate, they haven't been forced to push their interest rates down to zero.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

Japan should grow a pair of balls, kick the U.S. out of their country and stop being such a pathetic puppet state. Have some honour and dignity....

 

[gambit]

Not for a long time now. News from a few years back:

Financial Times - China unlocks the right kind of growth



^^^ Consumption accounts for 55% of our economic growth, whereas domestic investment contributes around 50.5%.

Net exports actually subtracted from our growth by -5.5%.

Anyway, America is very welcome to start a trade war if they feel that serves their interests the best. Since the USA couldn't keep their promise to protect the territorial integrity of the Philippines from China in 2012, or Ukraine from Russia now, I guess a trade war will make them feel much better about themselves.

And what's the condition for winning a trade war? Forcing the other side into recession? America is already in negative growth.

Even your native country Vietnam has a better growth rate, they haven't been forced to push their interest rates down to zero.

We are talking about the type of consumption here, pal. What do you think the American middle class consume compares to the Chinese middle class ? Am willing to bet you have never been to America. Wal-Mart shoppers would be upper class compare to the average poverty stricken Chinese who lives on just a few yuans a day.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

We are talking about the type of consumption here, pal. What do you think the American middle class consume compares to the Chinese middle class ? Am willing to bet you have never been to America. Wal-Mart shoppers would be upper class compare to the average poverty stricken Chinese who lives on just a few yuans a day.

I'm from Hong Kong, and I've never been to America.

And yes, China is still a developing country. That's why we still have so much potential, we have not even achieved 10% of what we are going to achieve in the future.

And even at this low level of per capita productivity, we are soon set to surpass the USA, who's economy is shrinking.

Now imagine when the Chinese population reaches their true level of per capita productivity, as seen in Hong Kong and Singapore. When it reaches that point, our economy will be so far beyond America's that it would make the current competition look like a joke.

And needless to say, America will find their bankruptcy and debt pushing them away from Asian issues. Not that America stopped us from seizing the Scarborough shoal from the Philippines in 2012 anyway, or the Paracel islands from Vietnam. Though only the former was covered by a mutual defence treaty.

 

[Jlaw]

I'm from Hong Kong, and I've never been to America.

And yes, China is still a developing country. That's why we still have so much potential, we have not even achieved 10% of what we are going to achieve in the future.

And even at this low level of per capita productivity, we are soon set to surpass the USA, who's economy is shrinking.

Now imagine when the Chinese population reaches their true level of per capita productivity, as seen in Hong Kong and Singapore. When it reaches that point, our economy will be so far beyond America's that it would make the current competition look like a joke.

And needless to say, America will find their bankruptcy and debt pushing them away from Asian issues. Not that America stopped us from seizing the Scarborough shoal from the Philippines in 2012 anyway, or the Paracel islands from Vietnam. Though only the former was covered by a mutual defence treaty.

You aren't missing much if you have not been to US. San Fran is nice to visit, New York is overrated. Tokyo and Beijing a lot better than NY. LA is a not that nice except for a few areas like Beverly Hills, The rest are so so, but East and South central LA is bad. I am digressing from the thread.

 

[Edison Chen]

You aren't missing much if you have not been to US. San Fran is nice to visit, New York is overrated. Tokyo and Beijing a lot better than NY. LA is a not that nice except for a few areas like Beverly Hills, The rest are so so, but East and South central LA is bad. I am digressing from the thread.

NY is overrated, Manhattan is too crowded and noisy. The Philadelphia downtown is even worse than tier 2 capital city of some China province, so disappointed. But most countryside in the US is really awesome. That's the difference between China and the US.

 

[gambit]

I'm from Hong Kong, and I've never been to America.

And yes, China is still a developing country. That's why we still have so much potential, we have not even achieved 10% of what we are going to achieve in the future.

And even at this low level of per capita productivity, we are soon set to surpass the USA, who's economy is shrinking.

Now imagine when the Chinese population reaches their true level of per capita productivity, as seen in Hong Kong and Singapore. When it reaches that point, our economy will be so far beyond America's that it would make the current competition look like a joke.

And needless to say, America will find their bankruptcy and debt pushing them away from Asian issues. Not that America stopped us from seizing the Scarborough shoal from the Philippines in 2012 anyway, or the Paracel islands from Vietnam. Though only the former was covered by a mutual defence treaty.

You are such a fool...

I have a checking account when I was 14 yrs old -- in 1977 -- with Bank of Hawaii. What were YOU doing in 1977 ? I have my first credit card at 18 yrs old, also with BankoH, right before I joined the USAF. What were YOU doing in 1983 ?

Wait a sec...You were not even a gleam of lust in your father's eye...

My point is this...Since then, just like other Americans in this capitalist country, I lived in a cyclical economy. Ups and downs. Just like other Americans and Europeans who lives the in same kind of cyclical capitalist economy, we adjust our spending habits according to our economies.

So what do you think you and your fellow Chinese are going to do, assuming there is a trade war between US and China, and that indicators tells you that millions of Chinese jobs are at stake, that American investors are either declining their investments in China or stay out of China completely, and/or that other countries like Viet Nam and South Korea are capable of taking up the slack ?

You and your fellow Chinese, just like me and my fellow Americans in our past, are going to adjust your spending/consumption patterns, as in decreasing.

- Your China have no social safety net and that means everyone in all working age groups, are going to hoard as much cash as possible, potentially depriving your banks of much needed cash to fund investments, civilian and government.

- Your China is starting to pay for the one-child policy and please do not tell us how that policy is being eased or even rescinded. The effects of that easement are not going to be apparent for at least 30 yrs, but the effects of a trade war are going to be apparent quite immediately with the end of that war unknown. That mean it is going to be even more imperative for parents to hoard cash to raise children, not child, but children.

- Your fellow middle class Chinese who are currently drunk on a rising economy will be in a massive hangover and that will put them into a scare that will last for decades. They will be fearful. The more educated among them will realize that the depression came from deliberate actions and not of the natural cycles in a capitalist economy. This will condition the middle class to save and to moderate their consumption in the future, making it more difficult for China to recover from the trade war.

- Your China's housing economy will collapse because the middle class are too fearful to invest.

Right now, a lot of my clothes have 'Made in Pakistan' or 'Made in Bangladesh' or 'Made in Vietnam' labels on them. Wal-Mart and Apple do not need China when there are equally motivated and reasonably educated people in Viet Nam, South Korea, or Taiwan to make what middle class Americans like me want. The CEOs of these companies have been and always looks for alternatives to China, including the option of returning to the US. You think those home made luxury Chinese automobiles that are trying to break into foreign markets are going to survive with African and Middle East buyers ?

YOU personally have never lived thru a recession so you do not know what is it like to get up everyday wondering if you are going to have a job today. I have lived thru such. A trade war will hurt both US and China but it will be worse for China and the psychological effects will last longer for China simply because of your collective inexperience at living thru the typical cyclical capitalist economy.

So instead of imagining how China will take over the US...etc...etc...You might want to imagine what is it like to be without a job, without unemployment insurance, and without the luxuries you once took for granted. All the while your one-percenters live it up in American and European resorts because they have the connections and the inside knowledge to take care of themselves.

Rich Chinese line up to leave China - Craig Stephen's This Week in China - MarketWatch

Feb. 9, 2014, 10:14 p.m. EST

Rich Chinese line up to leave China

Wealthy Chinese mainlanders are voting with their feet in eye-popping numbers and preparing to emigrate — taking both their money and family with them.

It could be simply cleaner air, given the pollution gripping many cities across China. Or perhaps some could be feeling twitchy as President Xi Jinping continues his year-long anti-corruption campaign.

But there is also the possibility this is at least partly a financial decision. They don’t want to hang around as the Chinese economy finally goes through a de-leveraging process and perhaps think it’s an opportune time to be getting out of yuan

Take note of the word 'finally'. It means these people either know or is 99.999% confident that an appreciation of the yuan is coming -- as in inevitable.

Like I said...A bunch of Internet Chinese who can barely balance a checkbook or qualify for a credit card are hilariously making pronouncements on global economic issues.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You are such a fool...

I have a checking account when I was 14 yrs old -- in 1977 -- with Bank of Hawaii. What were YOU doing in 1977 ? I have my first credit card at 18 yrs old, also with BankoH, right before I joined the USAF. What were YOU doing in 1983 ?

Wait a sec...You were not even a gleam of lust in your father's eye...

My point is this...Since then, just like other Americans in this capitalist country, I lived in a cyclical economy. Ups and downs. Just like other Americans and Europeans who lives the in same kind of cyclical capitalist economy, we adjust our spending habits according to our economies.

So what do you think you and your fellow Chinese are going to do, assuming there is a trade war between US and China, and that indicators tells you that millions of Chinese jobs are at stake, that American investors are either declining their investments in China or stay out of China completely, and/or that other countries like Viet Nam and South Korea are capable of taking up the slack ?

You and your fellow Chinese, just like me and my fellow Americans in our past, are going to adjust your spending/consumption patterns, as in decreasing.

- Your China have no social safety net and that means everyone in all working age groups, are going to hoard as much cash as possible, potentially depriving your banks of much needed cash to fund investments, civilian and government.

- Your China is starting to pay for the one-child policy and please do not tell us how that policy is being eased or even rescinded. The effects of that easement are not going to be apparent for at least 30 yrs, but the effects of a trade war are going to be apparent quite immediately with the end of that war unknown. That mean it is going to be even more imperative for parents to hoard cash to raise children, not child, but children.

- Your fellow middle class Chinese who are currently drunk on a rising economy will be in a massive hangover and that will put them into a scare that will last for decades. They will be fearful. The more educated among them will realize that the depression came from deliberate actions and not of the natural cycles in a capitalist economy. This will condition the middle class to save and to moderate their consumption in the future, making it more difficult for China to recover from the trade war.

- Your China's housing economy will collapse because the middle class are too fearful to invest.

Right now, a lot of my clothes have 'Made in Pakistan' or 'Made in Bangladesh' or 'Made in Vietnam' labels on them. Wal-Mart and Apple do not need China when there are equally motivated and reasonably educated people in Viet Nam, South Korea, or Taiwan to make what middle class Americans like me want. The CEOs of these companies have been and always looks for alternatives to China, including the option of returning to the US. You think those home made luxury Chinese automobiles that are trying to break into foreign markets are going to survive with African and Middle East buyers ?

YOU personally have never lived thru a recession so you do not know what is it like to get up everyday wondering if you are going to have a job today. I have lived thru such. A trade war will hurt both US and China but it will be worse for China and the psychological effects will last longer for China simply because of your collective inexperience at living thru the typical cyclical capitalist economy.

So instead of imagining how China will take over the US...etc...etc...You might want to imagine what is it like to be without a job, without unemployment insurance, and without the luxuries you once took for granted. All the while your one-percenters live it up in American and European resorts because they have the connections and the inside knowledge to take care of themselves.

Rich Chinese line up to leave China - Craig Stephen's This Week in China - MarketWatch

Take note of the word 'finally'. It means these people either know or is 99.999% confident that an appreciation of the yuan is coming -- as in inevitable.

Like I said...A bunch of Internet Chinese who can barely balance a checkbook or qualify for a credit card are hilariously making pronouncements on global economic issues.

So basically you are saying you are an old man, so you know better than me since I was not born back then? Is that really your argument?

That's up to you.

My point is, instead of boasting why not come and do it?

We took the Scarborough shoal from the Philippines in 2012, where was America and her mutual defence treaty?

Russia took Crimea just now, where was America who promised to protect Ukraine's borders in 1994, in exchange for Ukraine giving up their nuclear arsenal?

What about when Syria crossed Obama's "red lines" without even blinking, and with zero consequences?

Most appropriately for the topic, China is REFUSING to follow America's pleading for a large-scale appreciation of the Yuan. So instead of talking about a trade war, why not do it? Or is going to be like the above, all talk and no action?

Until then, our policy on the Yuan remains the same, slow reform, and a managed float. Nothing changes.

 

[gambit]

So basically you are saying you are an old man, so you know better than me since I was not born back then? Is that really your argument?

That's up to you.

My point is, instead of boasting why not come and do it?

We took the Scarborough shoal from the Philippines in 2012, where was America and her mutual defence treaty?

Russia took Crimea just now, where was America who promised to protect Ukraine's borders in 1994, in exchange for Ukraine giving up their nuclear arsenal?

What about when Syria crossed Obama's "red lines" without even blinking, and with zero consequences?

Most appropriately for the topic, China is REFUSING to follow America's pleading for a large-scale appreciation of the Yuan. So instead of talking about a trade war, why not do it? Or is going to be like the above, all talk and no action?

Until then, our policy on the Yuan remains the same, slow reform, and a managed float. Nothing changes.

Yes, I do.

It is absurd for you, child, to compare a bunch of islands or some territory of some far off lands to the pocketbooks of Americans. Guess which is more personal and feed one's family ?

You took glee in America's economic woes, as in a 1% contraction, to signal American's decline. But what do you think is going to happen to China ONCE her economy contracts a couple degrees more due to a trade war against US ?

I understand that in China, gifting is important in establishing connections and cementing relationships. So much that corruption via gifting is common. The Chinese government banned luxury advertisement in order to combat corruption and graft. Absent ideas on how to establish connections and cement relationships to gain profits, luxury items sales declined and amazingly enough, the Chinese economy actually contracted a minor degree.

State economists tried to pass that off as mere coincidence...

Chinese Luxury Spending Declines Sharply Due To Chinese Government's Austerity Plan

May 01 2013 1:21 PM

...mainland China’s luxury spending totaled $830 million, a fall of 53 percent compared to the same period last year. Many luxury brands are slowing their expansion plans, not opening new stores for the time being.

...But objective observers said otherwise.

This speaks volume on the purchasing power of the Chinese middle class, as in INSUFFICIENT to sustain China's economic growth should there be something disastrous happens to the export model and that China must rely on internal consumption. Do you really think that Chinese fashion designers can convince the Chinese middle class, which am sure does not include you, that their products are just as good as Louis Vuitton or Apple or even stuff from JC Penney's ?

Can we guess why you did not object to my pointing out the common behaviors between Americans and Chinese ? Yes, we can. You know that what I said is true. Americans have plenty of experience in weathering economic cycles. You Chinese do not. China's foreign currency reserves cannot help you in this regards, at least not in the long run. The world still relies on the dollar as anchor and that includes your China. When I was in Shanghai on business for Micron Technology, plenty of Chinese merchants were willing to accept dollars as payments for services, and for merchants that provides female companions to foreigners, they love the dollar.

In your China, rivers runs red with pollution. So do you think your China could survive this in a trade war against US ? What is your China going to do with the Qingdao Bridge that have virtually no traffic ? You think your government can persuade you and your fellow Chinese to empty their savings to buy cars to populate that bridge and to shore up a panicked economy ? You think the owners of those fake Apple stores can help ?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You know that what I said is true. Americans have plenty of experience in weathering economic cycles. You Chinese do not. China's foreign currency reserves cannot help you in this regards, at least not in the long run.

Is that some kind of joke?

China has been weathering ups and downs, including economic crashes, for thousands of years.

That is thousands of years before the Native Americans were exterminated, and their land stolen from them, i.e. the birth of the USA.

Again, all your boasting is pointless, China is ignoring American pleading over the Yuan.

In fact, the latest news is that we are devaluing the Yuan even further.

China's Yuan Hits Four-Week Low Against the Dollar - WSJ

Well, I guess America still has the option of pushing their interest rates (from the current zero) into negative territory. Or a stimulus like QE... (yet again).

Ask Japan how that went for them, dropping interest rates and injecting stimulus, in response to collapsing growth rates in the late 1980's.