China All Su-35 news

[serenity]

The Su-35. Am I in the wrong thread?

It's often difficult to compare capabilities across Russian jets esp. given the array of EW/sensor suites, etc.

Also, does this jet offer something to China that the J-20 and J-16 variants (etc) can't provide?

Yes. It shows Russian thrust vectoring performs and where is weaknesses and strengths and what to be careful of since Su-30MKI uses similar thrust vectoring design and control systems. It can simulate Su-30MKI movements better than any PLAAF fighter. This is useful. Chinese thrust vectoring design differed at least the J-10 experiment in TVC. Our own TVC research used a simpler and cheaper approach to do TVC according to some papers. These papers suggest the Russian methods are better overall in mechanical capability but quite more complex and expensive. Su-35 allows Chinese engineers to properly look through everything and evaluate performance of Russia's best fighter which Su-30MKI does not match so if PLAAF fighters can handle Su-35, it can handle and know better how to handle MKI. Anyway Su-35 and Su-30MKI both have V-figure TVC arrangement but Su-35 can work too against foreign airforces and 24 is good addition. Our J-11D program evaluated against J-16 and Su-35 wasn't good enough for the trouble so PLAAF just upgrade J-11B to AESA radars and accept modern missiles. Achieve the main improvements with minimal extra cost.

 

[LKJ86]

Our J-11D program evaluated against J-16 and Su-35 wasn't good enough for the trouble so PLAAF just upgrade J-11B to AESA radars and accept modern missiles.

Su-35SK and J-11D can be called PLAAF's backup plans for J-20.
And J-20 has exceeded original expectations, so the backup plans become meaningless.

 

[serenity]

Su-35SK and J-11D can be called PLAAF's backup plans for J-20.
And J-20 has exceeded original expectations, so the backup plans become meaningless.

Su-35 and J-11D or even J-16 which is better than both of those, are not ever going to be good J-20 backups if J-20 evaluation was not to PLAAF's satisfaction. Only if stealth and this main advantage of the new aircraft did not work. The main difference separating them is this stealth ability in terms of radar signature and also electronic signals management. The next generation of equipment also applies to J-10C and J-16. They are just as advanced as J-20 but focus on different things in different ways due to the more primary quality which is stealth in this case. Reality is if J-20 did not live up to standards in evaluation, they will have made it right or completely reject it and do another program that can compete with 5th generation. Su-35 and J-11D cannot do this and in this sense are not true backups.

 

[LKJ86]

Su-35 and J-11D or even J-16 which is better than both of those, are not ever going to be good J-20 backups if J-20 evaluation was not to PLAAF's satisfaction.

Backup plans are not alternative plans.
If the development of J-20 is in trouble or delayed, PLAAF can still have 4.5th-generation heavyweight air superiority fighter options.

Su-35 and J-11D or even J-16 which is better than both of those

Su-35 and J-11D are 4.5th-generation heavyweight air superiority fighters, while J-16 a 4.5th-generation heavyweight multi-role fighter.

For air combat, J-11D can defeat J-16. (J-11D > J-16 > Su-35SK)

 

[Deino]

Via @空军在线 from Weibo

Su-35SK and J-11D can be called PLAAF's backup plans for J-20.
And J-20 has exceeded original expectations, so the backup plans become meaningless.

So is the J-11D project still alive?

 

[Beast]

Via @空军在线 from Weibo




So is the J-11D project still alive?

I think no.

 

[jupiter2007]

What is the production rate of J-11/J-16?

 

[Figaro]

Yes. It shows Russian thrust vectoring performs and where is weaknesses and strengths and what to be careful of since Su-30MKI uses similar thrust vectoring design and control systems. It can simulate Su-30MKI movements better than any PLAAF fighter. This is useful. Chinese thrust vectoring design differed at least the J-10 experiment in TVC. Our own TVC research used a simpler and cheaper approach to do TVC according to some papers. These papers suggest the Russian methods are better overall in mechanical capability but quite more complex and expensive. Su-35 allows Chinese engineers to properly look through everything and evaluate performance of Russia's best fighter which Su-30MKI does not match so if PLAAF fighters can handle Su-35, it can handle and know better how to handle MKI. Anyway Su-35 and Su-30MKI both have V-figure TVC arrangement but Su-35 can work too against foreign airforces and 24 is good addition. Our J-11D program evaluated against J-16 and Su-35 wasn't good enough for the trouble so PLAAF just upgrade J-11B to AESA radars and accept modern missiles. Achieve the main improvements with minimal extra cost.

Honestly this was the best decision. Creating another series of J-11D without significant improvement would really not be worth the development and procurement costs ... much smarter to instead upgrade the J-11Bs and spend the money elsewhere.

 

[LKJ86]

Via @摇篮里的航海家 from Weibo

 

[Figaro]

An excellent interview with a PLAAF officer about what the Chinese got out of the Su-35 purchase ... it is about a year old but I don't think it was posted on here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/path%3D%252Fr%252FLessCredibleDefence%252Fcomments%252Fajx4bx%252F

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

An excellent interview with a PLAAF officer about what the Chinese got out of the Su-35 purchase ... it is about a year old but I don't think it was posted on here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/path%3D%252Fr%252FLessCredibleDefence%252Fcomments%252Fajx4bx%252F

Su-35SM upgrade is getting AESA similar to the one used in Su-57.

 

[siegecrossbow]

An excellent interview with a PLAAF officer about what the Chinese got out of the Su-35 purchase ... it is about a year old but I don't think it was posted on here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/path%3D%252Fr%252FLessCredibleDefence%252Fcomments%252Fajx4bx%252F

It was an interview with Yankeesama, a military enthusiast with family members in the military, not a PLA officer.

 

[LKJ86]

Via @空军在线 from Weibo

 

[Deino]

Interesting to see the Su-30MKK, which are now acting as trainers within the 6th Air Brigade at Suixi.

 

[no smoking]

Honestly this was the best decision. Creating another series of J-11D without significant improvement would really not be worth the development and procurement costs ... much smarter to instead upgrade the J-11Bs and spend the money elsewhere.

If my memory is right, according to "空军厂" in CJ, J-16 is an upgrade of Su-30MKK through traditional way: better weapon, better electronic, etc, but . J-11D is a new upgrading concept: using AI to partially or totally replace the back seat.