China All Su-35 news

[SOHEIL]

What's the reason behind importing Su-35s from Russia when you have J-20 and flanker copies?

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

What's the reason behind importing Su-35s from Russia when you have J-20 and flanker copies?

Engine deal

 

[Deino]

What's the reason behind importing Su-35s from Russia when you have J-20 and flanker copies?

IMO a mixed two-folded deal with a political and military related decision since it gives the PLAAF an immediate plus on at least one Brigade, the insight into the latest Russian technology - especially their radar, FCS and engine - and the ability to explore TVC in real aerial combat and was a strong political testimony to Russia's friendship.

The often mentioned engine deal is IMO only a secondary reason, since there is no deal on the engine. All are delivered by the manufactor and maintenance will be done in Russia.

 

[serenity]

What's the reason behind importing Su-35s from Russia when you have J-20 and flanker copies?

IMO a mixed two-folded deal with a political and military related decision since it gives the PLAAF an immediate plus on at least one Brigade, the insight into the latest Russian technology - especially their radar, FCS and engine - and the ability to explore TVC in real aerial combat and was a strong political testimony to Russia's friendship.

The often mentioned engine deal is IMO only a secondary reason, since there is no deal on the engine. All are delivered by the manufactor and maintenance will be done in Russia.

606 Institute or whoever designs and whoever manufactures the WS10 type and WS15 type cannot copy the Russian engine on Su-35 which is called 117. Engine design in China is very mature. Manufacturing is not very mature. The theory is all okay behind turbofan. I'm sure even Japan, Korea, and India are more similar levels as well. The difficult parts is the last few details and definitely in the fabrication and material secrets. You cannot copy engine like you cannot uncook egg.

WS15 is reworked from previous design which was nearly completed but kept having problems in testing final stages and PLAAF was not 100% happy. Then design was forced to adopt the newest material technology that was only became researched after WS15 first type was already designed. This engine is for future J-20 types and maybe even future Shengyang fighters like J-11X, J-15X, J-16X. If reliable enough, maybe even for J-10X.

117 is worth studying definitely. It lets us see Russian methods for thrust vector and Russian way of using it with new flight control on newest Su-35. Then we evaluate radar, evaluate training against our forces, and evaluate their latest technology which may be used for T-50 and maybe for future exports to countries like India.

Another big reason is because J-11D was rejected by PLAAF. Most public reasons are the radar was not good enough but this is really actually easy to fix since J-10C, J-15, J-16, and J-20 radars are all up to expectation so that's not a good reason. Main reason J-11D rejected probably because flight performance is not better than J-11B. Using same Al31 engine or WS10 cannot compare with Su-35 with 117 with thrust vector and newest flight control that combine more powerful engine and vectoring. Su-35 also solves some flight characteristics that Shengyang have not improved from old flanker. So Su-35 compared to old J-11 is like supercar compared to van. But PLAAF also still want more heavy fighters while Chengdu very slowly builds J-20 and Shengyang is busy with J-16, J-16 electronic attack and J-15 electronic attack. Both are very busy with unmanned next generations and Shengyang also maybe working on FC-31.

 

[Beast]

What's the reason behind importing Su-35s from Russia when you have J-20 and flanker copies?

And if Su-35 is really that good. Why order only 24 which is the minimum order number set by Russia? No further follow up. Its more of a political decision to improve trade deficiency with Russia as Russia has complaint exporting raw material and non finish product while import large quantity of China products like electronic and machinery.

Another reason is study the Russian 117S engine. China now has its own unique TVC which is demonstrated during Zuhuai 2018 airshow. But its always good to further study other design to further is knowledge and widen the design ideal.

 

[Ali_Baba]

I cannot see China ordering any more Su35s. The Su35s have served their purpose, for China, very very well for what they were intended. A chance to inspect the latest and best of Russia aviation capabilities.

Given the poor performance of the AAMs for Russian aircraft, it will be outgunned by all modern aircraft regardless of the performance of its radar system.

 

[Figaro]

IMO a mixed two-folded deal with a political and military related decision since it gives the PLAAF an immediate plus on at least one Brigade, the insight into the latest Russian technology - especially their radar, FCS and engine - and the ability to explore TVC in real aerial combat and was a strong political testimony to Russia's friendship.

The often mentioned engine deal is IMO only a secondary reason, since there is no deal on the engine. All are delivered by the manufactor and maintenance will be done in Russia.

I heard that the Su-35 did not perform well in beyond visual range aerial combat against the likes of the J-10C. I'm not sure buying the Su-35 now (especially with China's new TVC) would be wise, even if it was for within visual range fight

 

[055_destroyer]

I heard that the Su-35 did not perform well in beyond visual range aerial combat against the likes of the J-10C. I'm not sure buying the Su-35 now (especially with China's new TVC) would be wise, even if it was for within visual range fight

China may disassemble all radar of Su-35 and replaced it with domestic radar as demonstrated by these imported Su-30MKK fitted with PL-12 missiles. I am sure the radar is replaced with domestic one as try integrating foreign missiles into another radar without source code is too hassle.

 

[serenity]

If we purchase more Su35 to prove its usefulness. It will be using Chinese radars and systems for electronic sensors and jamming. Only if Su35 can shoot Chinese missiles then we will buy more than 24. Russian missiles are not good against American missiles or Chinese missiles. We will not be able to match Americans or Japanese in case anything happens. But Su35 is still much better than J-11B and J-11B is only PLAAF fighter of fourth generation with two engines that only focus on air to air mission unlike the Su-30 and J-16. J-20 is very expensive for China and manufacturing complete ones are too slow for now. So PLAAF wants better fourth generation air to air fighter of heavy weight class and since J-11B stopped and J-11D is rejected, only makes sense to purchase more Su35 which is very powerful but if they can shoot Chinese missiles, will be even better for PLAAF otherwise will need to purchase and ship missiles from Russia all the time and cost us a lot of money.

 

[lcloo]

China should not buy any more SU-35. J16 and J10C can coordinate with J20 better as they all can share real time data. SU-35's incapability to use Chinese weapon is another minus point.

 

[Figaro]

Engine deal

What engine deal? It's not like the Chinese took out the Su-35's engine and put them on the J-20 ... nor does it look like Russia transferred engine tech

China should not buy any more SU-35. J16 and J10C can coordinate with J20 better as they all can share real time data. SU-35's incapability to use Chinese weapon is another minus point.

Any more purchases of the Su-35 would raise serious questions about the state of the Chinese aviation program ... but it looks unlikely given the acquisition occurred almost 4 years ago

 

[LKJ86]

1. Su-35 is completely incompatible with Chinese equipments.

2. PLAAF is not satisfied with the EW capability of Su-35, and buys EW pods from Belarus for them.

 

[LKJ86]

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

 

[LKJ86]

Via @梦漪迟 from Weibo

 

[LKJ86]

Via @南部空军 from Weixin