Chief of Army Staff | General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

[TaimiKhan]

So, finally we start to see the Light Commando Battalions (LCBs) on the media.

Nice addition to the PA.

 

[SQ8]

So, finally we start to see the Light Commando Battalions (LCBs) on the media.

Nice addition to the PA.

Any idea where one may get more info on them??

 

[TaimiKhan]

Any idea where one may get more info on them??

Well, i do have some info about them, but little bit

They have been newly made and are still being evolved, trained and to some elements ready too.

They are derived out from the SSG guys, and they are gonna be assuming many of the responsibilities of SSG.

I believe, they are being modeled on the US Ranger philosophy to some extent.

Low Intensity Conflict would be their major area of interest for now. May be kind of shock troops while being used in FATA operations, air lifted behind enemy lines, we did see something recently in Kurram agency where these formations were dropped behind Taliban lines to capture strategic areas.

I try to get more info about them.

 

[mughaljee]

Sir TaimiKhan,
SSG are not sufficient for these kind of jobs. ?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Sir TaimiKhan,
SSG are not sufficient for these kind of jobs. ?

SSG will be left for the core operations which they do.

See, SSG gets trained in a lot of stuff, which may be not required in the LIC situation, like para jumping, demolitions, etc etc etc.

These troops are gonna be shock troops for the LIC situation. We train SSG at lot of cost, and if they are used or die in a situation where there training is not used, its a big loss for us.

So, now we have LCBs, which are being trained as Commandos, but with traits which are needed in the Urban warefare / Low Intensity Conflict situation. They will be trained for exactly that reason and not more, thus we will safe costs and valuable men which can be used in other special operations.

 

[fatman17]

thus we will safe costs and valuable men which can be used in other special operations.

so now we are putting 'values' on our fighting men. so going by this its ok for a FC or infantryman to die but not the SSG?

 

[TaimiKhan]

thus we will safe costs and valuable men which can be used in other special operations.

so now we are putting 'values' on our fighting men. so going by this its ok for a FC or infantryman to die but not the SSG?

I have no idea why you took it in the wrong sense, as i hoped the seniors would atleast understand what i was trying to say.

Anyway, what i meant with the valuable thingy was, that an SSG guy gets trained well and it adds certain special capabilities in him, which the regular infantry lacks, taking as example the HALO / HAHO capabilities. An SSG guys gets trained in this capability which the infantry guy or a FC guy lacks, and the HALO / HAHO capability comes with great costs as he has to make several jumps to be fully trained and the jumping takes aircraft making regular flights, it consumes fuel and wear and tear to the plane, similarly other special capabilities are input in them. LIC has no use of HAHO / HALO capability, at the most these guys are dropped through helicopters. So now, you spend lot of money to train a SSG guys, thus all these special capabilities make him valuable for different kind or or set of missions. And if such a highly trained guy gets wasted on a mission which a regular infantry guy or slightly better infantry guy could have done, its wastage of resources as well as a valuable asset in the shape of the SSG guy.

So, my reference to value is not in the shape of money, rather capabilities.

A normal infantry unit in good physical shape, trained in heli assault, with better combat training can give the same results as would the SSG guys do, if they are infiltrated behind enemy lines. So, the SSG guy can be used somewhere else in a better way and he can die there. And who said SSG guys don't have to die ??

Hope you get what i am trying to say.

I am not valuing the life, i am valuing the set of capabilities these men acquire while being trained.

Value of any life is the same, be it a SSG guy, a FC soldier or a regular soldier or be it a civilian.

 

[fatman17]

I have no idea why you took it in the wrong sense, as i hoped the seniors would atleast understand what i was trying to say.

Anyway, what i meant with the valuable thingy was, that an SSG guy gets trained well and it adds certain special capabilities in him, which the regular infantry lacks, taking as example the HALO / HAHO capabilities. An SSG guys gets trained in this capability which the infantry guy or a FC guy lacks, and the HALO / HAHO capability comes with great costs as he has to make several jumps to be fully trained and the jumping takes aircraft making regular flights, it consumes fuel and wear and tear to the plane, similarly other special capabilities are input in them. LIC has no use of HAHO / HALO capability, at the most these guys are dropped through helicopters. So now, you spend lot of money to train a SSG guys, thus all these special capabilities make him valuable for different kind or or set of missions. And if such a highly trained guy gets wasted on a mission which a regular infantry guy or slightly better infantry guy could have done, its wastage of resources as well as a valuable asset in the shape of the SSG guy.

So, my reference to value is not in the shape of money, rather capabilities.

A normal infantry unit in good physical shape, trained in heli assault, with better combat training can give the same results as would the SSG guys do, if they are infiltrated behind enemy lines.

Hope you get what i am trying to say.

I am not valuing the life, i am valuing the set of capabilities these men acquire while being trained.

Value of any life is the same, be it a SSG guy, a FC soldier or a regular soldier or be it a civilian.

fair enough - specialization of the forces will be a key factor in various types of conflicts from conventional to COIN to LIC or even Close quarter combat. the role of the SSG should be restricted to SpOps and these new LCB's should be used for air-borne assault ops against militants etc while the infantry and FC should be used to clear the low-lands, hold their positions until relieved.

 

[TaimiKhan]

fair enough - specialization of the forces will be a key factor in various types of conflicts from conventional to COIN to LIC or even Close quarter combat. the role of the SSG should be restricted to SpOps and these new LCB's should be used for air-borne assault ops against militants etc while the infantry and FC should be used to clear the low-lands, hold their positions until relieved.

Well, that is exactly what is being done i believe. It should have been done long time ago, but it seems after the Swat Operation and looking at the success achieved by the heli borne troops, this new concept of LCBs was started, as this formation started its training somewhere around in 2010 and they seem to be ready now.

I will try to get more info about these formations, whether they are normal infantry units converted to special roles or a mixture of SSG & regular infantry men, especially picked for this job based on some criteria.

 

[Bratva]

A friend of mine, Recently Graduated from PMA, went through a Low Intensity Warfare Course of 6 weeks. According to him, All units and newly inducted Foujis are also being passed through this course.

IF LIWC is extended to 12 weeks, then we can see many units could attain LCB status perhaps.

 

[TaimiKhan]

A friend of mine, Recently Graduated from PMA, went through a Low Intensity Warfare Course of 6 weeks. According to him, All units and newly inducted Foujis are also being passed through this course.

IF LIWC is extended to 12 weeks, then we can see many units could attain LCB status perhaps.

Doing LIC course is not gonna make units convert to LCBs. All units go through 2-3 months LIC training before deployment.

For LCBs they need to be in good physical shape, they may be given special equipment, they need to be trained for heli assault and other stuff as they are gonna be dropped behind enemy lines.

 

[TaimiKhan]

A friend of mine, Recently Graduated from PMA, went through a Low Intensity Warfare Course of 6 weeks. According to him, All units and newly inducted Foujis are also being passed through this course.

IF LIWC is extended to 12 weeks, then we can see many units could attain LCB status perhaps.

Doing LIC course is not gonna make units convert to LCBs. All units go through 2-3 months LIC training before deployment.

For LCBs they need to be in good physical shape, they may be given special equipment, they need to be trained for heli assault and other stuff as they are gonna be dropped behind enemy lines.

 

[fatman17]

Well, that is exactly what is being done i believe. It should have been done long time ago, but it seems after the Swat Operation and looking at the success achieved by the heli borne troops, this new concept of LCBs was started, as this formation started its training somewhere around in 2010 and they seem to be ready now.

I will try to get more info about these formations, whether they are normal infantry units converted to special roles or a mixture of SSG & regular infantry men, especially picked for this job based on some criteria.

where do RAF - rapid action force fall in this new organisation structure?

 

[Riz]

Keyani as a Cadit

 

[Xeric]

thus we will safe costs and valuable men which can be used in other special operations.

so now we are putting 'values' on our fighting men. so going by this its ok for a FC or infantryman to die but not the SSG?

In short, employment of SSG was 'overdoing' in this (LIC) case. SSG is trained for other operations like fighting behind enemy lines, para dropping and sustaining a minor operation till extraction or link-up etc, all of which are not required to be undertaken during the current fight against terrorism. Also, getting heli-dropped on a mountain top, placing demolitions and ambushes etc can be undertaken by any infantryman provided he is given that training (which infact is not that difficult a thing).

So employing SSG which is trained to undergo the rigors of sustaining themselves in detached operations was a bit exaggerated in this case, LCBs on the other hand can do all the things the SSG has been doing while they fight out the terrorists, LESS the endurance that is required out of a SSG who would operate behind the enemy, while staying dormant at times, feed of the land and surviving the odds.