Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[juj06750]

150 kn is way too high.

Probably on the lower end ... 145 kN.

expecting afterburn 150kN-170kN from C variant;
but not sure if those image is C variant;
sources say that latest batches of J16 and J20 are reportedly equipped with very powerful WS10B, which dry powers 96kN / afterburning powers 145kN

 

[Deino]

...

Even as of now, J-20 can reach a speed of Mach 2.52.

...

Sonce when and who claimed or even stated this other than our old friend with his ridiculous claim of a +245 kN WS-15 since day one.

 

[S10]

Sonce when and who claimed or even stated this other than our old friend with his ridiculous claim of a +245 kN WS-15 since day one.

Screen caption from People's Daily:

52km in a single minute = Mach 2.52

 

[samsara]

From 日月同明 @onceggyy123 on 2020-11-20:

F22, F35 and J20 all use integrated cockpit. Don't underestimate this piece of glass, which is made of high-strength composite materials by compression layer by layer. The process is very difficult. Even the Russians can't make it, and the Su57 can only use the old cockpit.

Old cockpit will destroy stealth ability. Pay attention to the yellow lines in the cockpit.

The design of stealth fighter is not as rough as you think. J20, F22 and F35 should be combined with parallel design principle even at the joint of canopy. This is why the integrated cockpit is designed to reduce RCS.

Due to the rough design and process of Su57, its RCS is much higher than that of J20.

The relatively large gaps in stealth fighters must meet the principle of parallel design. This is why the fifth generation fighters all use integrated cockpits. Interested friends can draw a parallel line of F22 and F35. #J20 #F35 #F22 #stealth #China

Even the gap in the weapons warehouse conforms to the principle of parallel design. For smaller gaps, serrated stealth should be used. Russian Su57 fighters do not meet the above conditions. Su57 only meets the basic parallel design.

Even such a small gap in China J20 weapons warehouse must meet the principle of parallel design。 #stealth #F22 #F35 #J20

OP thread:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1329476300134760448

The blogger, 日月同明 @onceggyy123, has joined Twitter since August 2012.

 

[LKJ86]

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

 

[Figaro]

From 日月同明 @onceggyy123 on 2020-11-20:

F22, F35 and J20 all use integrated cockpit. Don't underestimate this piece of glass, which is made of high-strength composite materials by compression layer by layer. The process is very difficult. Even the Russians can't make it, and the Su57 can only use the old cockpit.

View attachment 691337View attachment 691336
View attachment 691335
View attachment 691334

Old cockpit will destroy stealth ability. Pay attention to the yellow lines in the cockpit.

View attachment 691338

The design of stealth fighter is not as rough as you think. J20, F22 and F35 should be combined with parallel design principle even at the joint of canopy. This is why the integrated cockpit is designed to reduce RCS.

View attachment 691341
View attachment 691340


Due to the rough design and process of Su57, its RCS is much higher than that of J20.

View attachment 691343
View attachment 691342

The relatively large gaps in stealth fighters must meet the principle of parallel design. This is why the fifth generation fighters all use integrated cockpits. Interested friends can draw a parallel line of F22 and F35. #J20 #F35 #F22 #stealth #China

View attachment 691344


Even the gap in the weapons warehouse conforms to the principle of parallel design. For smaller gaps, serrated stealth should be used. Russian Su57 fighters do not meet the above conditions. Su57 only meets the basic parallel design.

View attachment 691348
View attachment 691347
View attachment 691346
View attachment 691345

Even such a small gap in China J20 weapons warehouse must meet the principle of parallel design。 #stealth #F22 #F35 #J20

View attachment 691349

OP thread:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1329476300134760448

The blogger, 日月同明 @onceggyy123, has joined Twitter since August 2012.

Su-57 RCS/IR Suppression is very poor ... honestly it shouldn't even be in the same tier as the F-35/J-20/F-22. It may have the best subsonic kinematics out of all three aircraft, but that hardly matters when you will be shot down before entering WVR.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Screen caption from People's Daily:

View attachment 691333

52km in a single minute = Mach 2.52

You are lucky that People’s Daily didn’t caption the image as F-22. The editors don’t have legit military knowledge.

 

[S10]

You are lucky that People’s Daily didn’t caption the image as F-22. The editors don’t have legit military knowledge.

I'm sure they don't, but that data has to be provided by air force or pilots. It's the closet thing you can get to an official figure.

 

[52051]

Even if WS-10C has a thrust over 150KN, it doesn't mean there is no point to have WS-15. WS-10 series has much higher bypass ratio comparing to WS-15, suggesting J-20 equipped with WS-15 will has much better supersonic performance (like super-cruise), although the ferry range will be comprised.

Thats why I think PLA should go for two version of J-20, J-20A with WS-10 for low cost and long range, J-20B with WS-15 for much better supersonic performance.

 

[Figaro]

Even if WS-10C has a thrust over 150KN, it doesn't mean there is no point to have WS-15. WS-10 series has much higher bypass ratio comparing to WS-15, suggesting J-20 equipped with WS-15 will has much better supersonic performance (like super-cruise), although the ferry range will be comprised.

Thats why I think PLA should go for two version of J-20, J-20A with WS-10 for low cost and long range, J-20B with WS-15 for much better supersonic performance.

After the WS-15 becomes operational, the WS-10 version will gradually cease in production. The fact is that the WS-15 is a generational leap over even the latest WS-10 variant. The slight range improvement and lower cost with the WS-10 is not nearly enough to offset the massive benefits offered by the WS-15.

 

[S10]

After the WS-15 becomes operational, the WS-10 version will gradually cease in production. The fact is that the WS-15 is a generational leap over even the latest WS-10 variant. The slight range improvement and lower cost with the WS-10 is not nearly enough to offset the massive benefits offered by the WS-15.

Fuel consumption and range will be issues. If they develop a twin-seater variant for strike roles, I think it should retain WS-10C as engines.

 

[zhxy]

WS-15 will not completely replace WS-10C

WS-10C has its own advantages. China can optimize and improve the WS-10C for special J-20 versions.

 

[Gomig-21]

From 日月同明 @onceggyy123 on 2020-11-20:

F22, F35 and J20 all use integrated cockpit. Don't underestimate this piece of glass, which is made of high-strength composite materials by compression layer by layer. The process is very difficult. Even the Russians can't make it, and the Su57 can only use the old cockpit.

Due to the rough design and process of Su57, its RCS is much higher than that of J20.

Even the gap in the weapons warehouse conforms to the principle of parallel design. For smaller gaps, serrated stealth should be used. Russian Su57 fighters do not meet the above conditions. Su57 only meets the basic parallel design.

OP thread:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1329476300134760448

The blogger, 日月同明 @onceggyy123, has joined Twitter since August 2012.

lol! There are so many untruths in that post but especially in that tweet by whomever that dude is lol. The Su-57 bashing is really strong from China, why is that? There is a TON OF UNTRUTH in the information about the glass cockpit of the Su-57 and that it's actually a totally new design that they mentioned in a recent video of how it's layered with many layers. Which is the opposite of the claim in this post so right there is a complete lie and untruthful bashing.

Also, the Russians have used irridium based glass for their cockpits and the gold effect (which is quite similar to the USAF F-16 and F-22 to reduce radar RCS) can easily be seen even in the MiG-35s and Su-35. lol so to claim such BS is really a shame, especially when China has learned SO MUCH from Russia.

Su-57 RCS/IR Suppression is very poor ... honestly it shouldn't even be in the same tier as the F-35/J-20/F-22. It may have the best subsonic kinematics out of all three aircraft, but that hardly matters when you will be shot down before entering WVR.

No offense, but how would you know that the Su-57's RCS -- and you're even going as far as to claim it's infrared signature is also higher!? -- than the J-20? How could you possibly know that when there is 0 data out there to support any of that?

 

[Figaro]

lol! There are so many untruths in that post but especially in that tweet by whomever that dude is lol. The Su-57 bashing is really strong from China, why is that? There is a TON OF UNTRUTH in the information about the glass cockpit of the Su-57 and that it's actually a totally new design that they mentioned in a recent video of how it's layered with many layers. Which is the opposite of the claim in this post so right there is a complete lie and untruthful bashing.

Also, the Russians have used irridium based glass for their cockpits and the gold effect (which is quite similar to the USAF F-16 and F-22 to reduce radar RCS) can easily be seen even in the MiG-35s and Su-35. lol so to claim such BS is really a shame, especially when China has learned SO MUCH from Russia.



No offense, but how would you know that the Su-57's RCS -- and you're even going as far as to claim it's infrared signature is also higher!? -- than the J-20? How could you possibly know that when there is 0 data out there to support any of that?

A Preliminary Assessment of Specular Radar Cross Section Performance in the Chengdu J-20 Prototype

APA Analysis Paper APA-2011-03; Title: A Preliminary Assessment of Specular Radar Cross Section Performance in the Chengdu J-20 Prototype; Abstract: This study has explored the specular Radar Cross Section of the Chengdu J-20 prototype aircraft shaping design. Simulations using a Physical Optics...

www.ausairpower.net

A Preliminary Assessment of Specular Radar Cross Section Performance in the Sukhoi T-50 Prototype

APA Analysis Paper APA-2012-03; Title: A Preliminary Assessment of Specular Radar Cross Section Performance in the Chengdu J-20 Prototype; Abstract: This study has explored the specular Radar Cross Section of the Sukhoi T-50 prototype aircraft shaping design. Simulations using a Physical Optics...

www.ausairpower.net

You can read up on more RCS tests of the Su-57 ... there are quite a few out there. This is the conclusion of Dr. Karlo Kopp, who performed the most in-depth/accurate RCS analysis at least publicly available of the J-20.

 

[samsara]

lol! There are so many untruths in that post but especially in that tweet by whomever that dude is lol. The Su-57 bashing is really strong from China, why is that? There is a TON OF UNTRUTH in the information about the glass cockpit of the Su-57 and that it's actually a totally new design that they mentioned in a recent video of how it's layered with many layers. Which is the opposite of the claim in this post so right there is a complete lie and untruthful bashing.

Also, the Russians have used irridium based glass for their cockpits and the gold effect (which is quite similar to the USAF F-16 and F-22 to reduce radar RCS) can easily be seen even in the MiG-35s and Su-35. lol so to claim such BS is really a shame, especially when China has learned SO MUCH from Russia.



No offense, but how would you know that the Su-57's RCS -- and you're even going as far as to claim it's infrared signature is also higher!? -- than the J-20? How could you possibly know that when there is 0 data out there to support any of that?

First of all, I need to correct your statement: "The Su-57 bashing is really strong from China, why is that?"

That is NOT a China's bashing on Su-57.

BUT some individual blogger has opinion as such. Since he has been around for many years, since 2012, and posted with efforts and seriousness seeing all the accompanying graphics, I think it's worth to verify

However, if you have more accurate info then I have no problem to take yours. I myself don't opine in this regard, for I don't know, and also not curious that much to dig deeply in that aspect. So just take it as is... some individual blogger has view like that and made it public with efforts in Twitter. But feel free to counter if his view ain't accurate and you have better info.