Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Beast]

Is that why the J-20 is not exported? I get it now ...makes a lot of sense.

Logic failed... J-20 is still under production and F-22 decide to close shop soon becos it's a failure.

Try harder

 

[dbc]

Logic failed... J-20 is still under production and F-22 decide to close shop soon becos it's a failure.

Try harder

lol...ok.. J-20 is mighty will you sell to the US... please

 

[Beast]

lol...ok.. J-20 is mighty will you sell to the US... please

Why China will sell to US?

You r asking a stupid question. @Deino , pls take care of this troll and his reply.

 

[dbc]

Why China will sell to US?

You r asking a stupid question. @Deino , pls take care of this troll and his reply.

@Deino yes please take care of the original troll post from Mr. Beast and the subsequent reactionary post.

Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

Is that why the J-20 is not exported? I get it now ...makes a lot of sense. :enjoy: Logic failed... J-20 is still under production and F-22 decide to close shop soon becos it's a failure. Try harder :enjoy:

defence.pk

 

[Beast]

@Deino yes please take care of the original troll post from Mr. Beast and the subsequent reactionary post.

Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

Is that why the J-20 is not exported? I get it now ...makes a lot of sense. :enjoy: Logic failed... J-20 is still under production and F-22 decide to close shop soon becos it's a failure. Try harder :enjoy:

defence.pk

How is my original post is even a troll? You can agree or disagree but to simply post a rubbish post of asking China to sell J-20 to US is anything but trolling. Not to mention added with a clown smiley. You have lost your plot. Don't post just for the sake of face saving...

 

[UKBengali]

There is reason why US decide to close F-22 production at 187 made and focus on F-35. Of cos they will not tell u the reason is becos it is outdated or inferior. The non export clause is to also hide it's Inferiority if exported and disappoint the buyer.

If F-22 is really so magical, they wouldnt close the production line. Simple logic. Just like Zumalt class destroyer with only 3 produced. It's simply an expensive white elephant

F-22 is described as a "marble" on radar whereas the F-35 is "golf-ball". Non-US versions of the F-35 will not be as stealthy as the US version.

While F-35 currently has a better radar and avionics than F-22, this will change soon as the F-22 will get a brand new radar and avionics suite as part of it's mid-life upgrade.

The reason they stopped production at 187 is that it was initially designed to fight the Soviets in Europe and they no longer exist.

US won't reopen the F-22 production line as it is looking at 6th generation from 2030 onwards and no country is in any position to challenge the combined might of the F-22/F-35 fleet this decade at least.

Going back to J-20, it really needs a proper 5th generation engine to stand a chance against F-22.

 

[dbc]

How is my original post is even a troll? You can agree or disagree but to simply post a rubbish post of asking China to sell J-20 to US is anything but trolling. Not to mention added with a clown smiley. You have lost your plot. Don't post just for the sake of face saving...

I merely highlighted the fallacy of your argument. The effectives or ineffectiveness can't be proven or disproven by the lack of exports. Using your logic, the J-10,J-11, J15,J20 and J-31 are all failures.

You are the one that started trolling by inserting the F/22 into a J-20 discussion.
There is plenty of credible open source information to ascertain the facts about F-22 production.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Hi I see this at wikipedia:
View attachment 677898

Wikipedia army strikes again!

 

[kungfugymnast]

F-22 is described as a "marble" on radar whereas the F-35 is "golf-ball". Non-US versions of the F-35 will not be as stealthy as the US version.

While F-35 currently has a better radar and avionics than F-22, this will change soon as the F-22 will get a brand new radar and avionics suite as part of it's mid-life upgrade.

The reason they stopped production at 187 is that it was initially designed to fight the Soviets in Europe and they no longer exist.

US won't reopen the F-22 production line as it is looking at 6th generation from 2030 onwards and no country is in any position to challenge the combined might of the F-22/F-35 fleet this decade at least.

Going back to J-20, it really needs a proper 5th generation engine to stand a chance against F-22.

Yes, only fools would say F-35 stealth is better than F-22. F-22 is using US only stealth materials that the Americans don't share with allies. The F-35, probably US owned only has the same stealth materials as F-22. Export variant F-35 has reduced ingredient and probably less stealthy to just low RCS to prevent allies from reverse engineer and obtain stealth technology. With these allies that never owned stealth aircraft, whatever US sold to them won't know if these export variant has the same stealth as US version F-35.

As for J-20, underestimating F-22 is fastest way to lose especially whether the PL-15 & PL-10E would be able to acquire lock, track and hit the F-22, how much reduction on effective tracking range are unknown until they meet in combat. The article posted as if F-22 can be detected more than 20 miles away that J-20 could track and launch PL-15 and PL-10E at it shows the self claimed expert doesn't know anything about F-22 that is highly classified.

 

[kungfugymnast]

There is reason why US decide to close F-22 production at 187 made and focus on F-35. Of cos they will not tell u the reason is becos it is outdated or inferior. The non export clause is to also hide it's Inferiority if exported and disappoint the buyer.

If F-22 is really so magical, they wouldnt close the production line. Simple logic. Just like Zumalt class destroyer with only 3 produced. It's simply an expensive white elephant

Lockheed Martin got greedy and made the F-22, F-35 like BMW with parts that don't last long, expensive and required lots of maintenance attention. Corrupted politicians at that time cancelled the F-22 production because maintaining these F-22 reduced their own pocket earnings. If you notice, Lockheed Martin monopolies US defence contracts because of ties that they began to let corruption taken over.

The J-20 is made with countering US threat in mind therefore there's no room for non-durable parts aimed at making money from users. Development of J-20 is still in progress depending on WS-15, threat, reverse engineer and later combat experience that there will be C, D variant later on.

 

[Grandy]

.
The pre-research plan for the sixth-generation aircraft is exposed
2020-10-09 20:30:23

Recently, a peculiar design of a mid-size fighter appeared at an air show, which is likely to be the pre-research plan for the sixth-generation aircraft to be launched in the next stage, and the canard layout has another “new trick“.

The sixth-generation aircraft development plan, one of them is a tailless delta wing. In order to pursue high speed and excellent stealth effect, air intake is behind it. The canards originally located on both sides of the fuselage are connected to the nose this time, and the overall lines are smoother and in line with aerodynamics, minimizing wind resistance. With the addition of a vector engine, the aircraft's ability to fly at supersonic speeds can reach a new height. But this design also has a serious problem. The pilot's field of vision will be limited by the wings. For this reason, DAS technology is specially added to the pilot helmet display system. The canard-wing layout without a vertical tail and the addition of supramolecular wave-transmitting materials make the stealth performance of the 6th generation aircraft even better. In future wars, the ability to master battlefield information will become higher and higher. The nose and canards can be integrated to install larger Airborne radar.

 

[Figaro]

F-22 is described as a "marble" on radar whereas the F-35 is "golf-ball". Non-US versions of the F-35 will not be as stealthy as the US version.

While F-35 currently has a better radar and avionics than F-22, this will change soon as the F-22 will get a brand new radar and avionics suite as part of it's mid-life upgrade.

The reason they stopped production at 187 is that it was initially designed to fight the Soviets in Europe and they no longer exist.

This is incorrect. Yes the F-35 has inferior RCS to the F-22, yes it is much worse aerodynamically, and yes it also cannot supercruise but you are missing the whole point here ... this was meant to be. If you read the design specifications mentioned in the late 1990s/early 2000s, you will find none of this was ever listed as design requirements for the F-35. The USAF has basically completely bet on the F-35s huge superiority in avionics and various other BVR measures ... if you are saying the F-22 will somehow be upgraded to these specs, then you are wrong. The fact of the matter is even with upgrades and overhaul, the overall capability of the F-22 is quite outdated, especially with regards to stuff like datalink and radar. A lot of said upgrades are not even possible and would cost a bunch of money, which would otherwise be used to build more F-35s. Put it frankly, the F-22 is going to endure a slow death like the B-2 bomber. People need to let go of the F-22 fanboyism and instead look to the present and the future, which by all means is the F-35 and whatever 6th generation design Lockheed is working on.

Yes, only fools would say F-35 stealth is better than F-22. F-22 is using US only stealth materials that the Americans don't share with allies. The F-35, probably US owned only has the same stealth materials as F-22. Export variant F-35 has reduced ingredient and probably less stealthy to just low RCS to prevent allies from reverse engineer and obtain stealth technology. With these allies that never owned stealth aircraft, whatever US sold to them won't know if these export variant has the same stealth as US version F-35.

The radar absorbing materials on the F-35 for sure is a generation beyond the F-22. Note that RAM also plays a huge factor to the RCS returns in addition to the shaping (i.e. VLO components of the plane). Also do not forget that the F-35 also has DSI, which is a pretty huge advantage in reducing RCS versus the F-22.

As for J-20, underestimating F-22 is fastest way to lose especially whether the PL-15 & PL-10E would be able to acquire lock, track and hit the F-22, how much reduction on effective tracking range are unknown until they meet in combat. The article posted as if F-22 can be detected more than 20 miles away that J-20 could track and launch PL-15 and PL-10E at it shows the self claimed expert doesn't know anything about F-22 that is highly classified.

The J-20 was designed as a direct counter to the F-22 because when it was conceptualized in the late 1990s, when the F-22 was the premier stealth fighter. That is why you see a lot of F-22 VLO inspired features on the J-20. To counter the F-35, the Chinese can only focus on upgrading the Type 1475 radar, their ECM suite, and A2A missiles as much as possible. Everyone knows the J-20 will come out on top in dogfights, so the F-35 will never engage in those anyway. The real question is how the J-20 will fare in BVR combat against the F-35 and that we will only know if the two meet on the battlefield one day.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

What a load of nonsense.

1. J-20 came into service a decade later than F-22 and so was designed 10 years later and not 20-25 years as the article implies.

2. The F-22 is on the 4th upgrade of it's radar and it's hardware has already been upgraded. J-20 is probably on the first version of it's production radar.

3. For a stealth fighter AIM-120D with 160km range is more than sufficient. AIM-120 missile is combat tested and refined through many iterations whereas the PL-15 is new and has never been fired in anger.

F-22 with it's superior 5th generation engine would aerodynamically dominate the weak-engined J-20 and is far stealthier from behind.

The F-22 would win against the J-20 many times before it lost once.

That's for a good laugh since USAF do not have the necessary funding needed for its OODA.2 compliant upgradation.
Even if it does, it will only fulfilled probably OODA1.5 since it would be gargantuan task to upgrade the basic design structure or other crutical area.
This explained why is USAF seeking a replacement for its super super ultimate F-22?

When PAF shot down SU-30MKI, I begin to discover the correlation of what protegee Chief Designer Yang Wei was trying to relate.

PLAAF H6M bomber can never be matched with H-20 or USAF B1 or B2. It is fully acceptable and reasonable argument.

Self denial is what demagogue like Trumps and team will do.

You should be better than that.

Unless you are a racist and is saying Chinese and China is incapable of producing advanced high technological product that can supersede USA.

 

[Deino]

.
The pre-research plan for the sixth-generation aircraft is exposed
2020-10-09 20:30:23

View attachment 678006
Recently, a peculiar design of a mid-size fighter appeared at an air show, which is likely to be the pre-research plan for the sixth-generation aircraft to be launched in the next stage, and the canard layout has another “new trick“.

View attachment 678007
The sixth-generation aircraft development plan, one of them is a tailless delta wing. In order to pursue high speed and excellent stealth effect, air intake is behind it. The canards originally located on both sides of the fuselage are connected to the nose this time, and the overall lines are smoother and in line with aerodynamics, minimizing wind resistance. With the addition of a vector engine, the aircraft's ability to fly at supersonic speeds can reach a new height. But this design also has a serious problem. The pilot's field of vision will be limited by the wings. For this reason, DAS technology is specially added to the pilot helmet display system. The canard-wing layout without a vertical tail and the addition of supramolecular wave-transmitting materials make the stealth performance of the 6th generation aircraft even better. In future wars, the ability to master battlefield information will become higher and higher. The nose and canards can be integrated to install larger Airborne radar.

View attachment 678008

Can you please stop posting any random stuff - like that one one graphene and this one too - in the J-20 thread? It has nothing to do with the topic and eventually we can start a new thread, but posting any such reports (and IMO of highly questionable credibility ... would be nice to know, who's the author!?) is annoying.

 

[UKBengali]

Lockheed Martin got greedy and made the F-22, F-35 like BMW with parts that don't last long, expensive and required lots of maintenance attention. Corrupted politicians at that time cancelled the F-22 production because maintaining these F-22 reduced their own pocket earnings. If you notice, Lockheed Martin monopolies US defence contracts because of ties that they began to let corruption taken over.

The J-20 is made with countering US threat in mind therefore there's no room for non-durable parts aimed at making money from users. Development of J-20 is still in progress depending on WS-15, threat, reverse engineer and later combat experience that there will be C, D variant later on.

I agree that J-20 will become a real threat to F-22 and F-35s when it gets the WS-15 engine.
With upgraded radar, avionics and stealth materials, the J-20 of 2025 with WS-15 should be better than F-35 and somewhat comparable to the F-22 of the time.

We will probably see the definitive version of J-20 around 2030-2035 and then the focus should be on getting the Chinese 6th generation fighter.