Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[ptldM3]

The fog is air vortex. Showing the plane doing high G move which is a must characteristic of a 4.5/5th fighter jet.

You don't need to do any turn to get that vortex. Simply breaking the sound barrier will create a "fog". Those vortexes appear with very minimal G forces if the aircraft is traveling fast enough even automosphic conditions play a role in those vortexes.

That means they will have very good angle of attack. Older generation fighter plane is not able to pull such high G.

No it doesn't mean that, even heavy dump trucks like the F-111 can creat a vortex and it's angle of attack is garbage. What it means is that it was traveling fast enough and the atmospheric conditions were conducive.



What G forces can "older" aircraft not pull? Are you suggesting that the J-20 can pull more then 10 Gs? Technically the SU-35 is an older generation aircraft, or at least in airframe. The SU-35 is the standard when it comes to maneuverability and high AoA. It put on one of the most impressive displays probably in the history of air shows or in gerneral while performing at the Paris air show in 2013. So now the J-20 can suddenly outturn an SU-35? And pull G forces that would likely damage the aircraft and hurt and incapacitate the pilot?


This is the result of a truly high G maneuver:

This is not:

Both have vortexes so they are nothing magical that only the J-20 has.

That means they will slower in turning and easy become prey of new generation fighter jet in dogfight.

Angle of attack has nothing to do with sustained or instantaneous turning which is what you are referring to when you say "turning". And a big part of 'dogfighting' has to do with roll rate and T/W ratio.

 

[serenity]

J-20's vortex is more similar to the picture of Su-35 than F-111's picture. Most good performance fighters can do this but it is also true that vortex can be generated in different conditions but not in the same way. The details are important. You can see from the airshow, J-20 is highly agile and not like F-111. Even without using afterburners it is capable of pulling a tight turn. There was one tight turn they were allowed to show and perform during the show while other turns were very held back and quite boring. You can sometimes see the flight control correction showing pilot input in holding turns back when they are pulling a wide circle. Most airshow fighters use full afterburner in many parts. Of course those performance are much nicer with tighter turning and faster acceleration but PLAAF is not too eager for Chengdu to show full set of performance and the pilots are new to the plane.

Su-35 is king of performance in subsonic speed. In the past, J-20's pilot and designer mentioned it is designed for supersonic turning similar to western fighter philosophy. Of course only Americans showed F-22 perform to Su-35 level in airshows before. F-22 is probably much better in supersonic speeds because that's what they designed it for. J-20 is said to be aiming for that and PLAAF will not show it publicly. It is just a new fighter and pilots are still training and developing flight routines for now. All are great performers. Chinese pilots and insiders have said that Su-35's Al-41 engine is excellent and if perfect world, they can have Al-41 in J-16 fighter. J-20 is still waiting for WS-15 which will improve on current performance.

 

[LKJ86]

Well done, J-20!

 

[Beast]

View attachment 528710
Well done, J-20!

J-20 win golden helmet air combat competition?

 

[lcloo]

Time to consider reducing production rates of J10 and flanker variants. Money spend on one J20 is far less than 10 J10C or 10 J11.

 

[jhungary]

F-22 cockpit is really old. Early 1990s design.

You know all F-22 have upgraded to Glass Cockpits a few years ago.

But well, then seeing it's you, mostly you don't know or care.

Anyway, this is not about F-22 so... Whatever

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

You know all F-22 have upgraded to Glass Cockpits a few years ago.

But well, then seeing it's you, mostly you don't know or care.

Anyway, this is not about F-22 so... Whatever

View attachment 528713

That's F-35 cockpit. This is F-22 cockpit. https://www.businessinsider.com/11-glimpses-inside-the-f-22-raptors-highly-classified-cockpit-2018-6

 

[Deino]

View attachment 528710
Well done, J-20!

Could you please translate?

 

[jhungary]

That's F-35 cockpit. This is F-22 cockpit. https://www.businessinsider.com/11-glimpses-inside-the-f-22-raptors-highly-classified-cockpit-2018-6

Yeah, sure, you are right.

But still, they change their cockpit layout to all glass, not the same one from 1990s.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Yeah, sure, you are right.

But still, they change their cockpit layout to all glass, not the same one from 1990s.

Maybe.

 

[LKJ86]

Could you please translate?

From the poem, we can find that:
1. J-20 win "golden helmet" air combat competition.
2. J-20 defeats all fighters from J-10 and Su-27 family.
3. J-20 can't be found during the air combat competition.
4. J-20 has zero loss.

 

[jhungary]

Could you please translate?

That was a Poem about winning the golden helmet competition, not sure if you will understand if I translat it to you.

It goes :

Congratulation on winning the competition for the first time.

Winning the Golden Helmet ; The grandiose flew over the cloud
Slaying other dragon ; (I can't translate that into something that make sense in English)
Hidden and hard to find ; Nobody can catch it
It was untouched after the game ; its name thunder forever.

 

[S10]

Could you please translate?

Basically J-20 wiped the floor with J-10B, J-11B and Su-35 in exercises, while taking zero losses.

 

[cirr]

Tracking F-22 as far as 600km away

 

[Beast]

Basically J-20 wiped the floor with J-10B, J-11B and Su-35 in exercises, while taking zero losses.

From what I gather, previously many old PLAAF pilot don't use ECM in aerial combat. And they get badly whipped by young pilot. There was once a veteran PLAAF pilot suffer a humiliate 0:42 losses against a young pilot possible by pure jamming and BVRAAM killed. The young pilot flown an not so advanced J-11A to get the job done.
I think there is a reason why PLAAF want to get degree holder for new blood as they are more open to new concept and grasped new technology faster.