Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Deino]

Yes, I don't remember seeing this pic or camouflage scheme before. It's not bad, consider every other Chinese planes, looks like that. This is the color of Chinese sky.

Come on !! Making an error is no problem, but You deduct thrust levels out of videos, identify the slightest - for most of us impossible to notice - changes in nozzle settings in order to recognise a secret TVC-mechanism, You find reports in the internet about alien-like technologies but..

1. first You did not notice a badly manipulated image

2. tell us that this is the "color of Chinese sky" and ""every other Chinese planes, looks like that !??? None type has such a scheme. Show me one image of a contemporary active in-service fighter with that old-fashioned colour scheme. Not even the oldest J-8s or J-7s have this scheme and so far not a single J-20 was spotted with a green nose.

 

[Asoka]

Come on !! Making an error is no problem, but You deduct thrust levels out of videos, identify the slightest - for most of us impossible to notice - changes in nozzle settings in order to recognise a secret TVC-mechanism, You find reports in the internet about alien-like technologies but..

1. first You did not notice a badly manipulated image

2. tell us that this is the "color of Chinese sky" and ""every other Chinese planes, looks like that !??? None type has such a scheme. Show me one image of a contemporary active in-service fighter with that old-fashioned colour scheme. Not even the oldest J-8s or J-7s have this scheme and so far not a single J-20 was spotted with a green nose.

This is the standard color of the Chinese fighters. I thought J-20 is going to be different from all other fighers, because its stealth. So, I was a little bit surprise to see a picture with color like the older fighter. I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[Deino]

This is the standard color of the Chinese fighters. I thought J-20 is going to be different from all other fighers, because its stealth. So, I was a little bit surprise to see a picture with color like the older fighter. I don't know what else to tell you.

Oh well indeed ! I admit I was wrong and I will surely never question any of Your claims since I'm simply blind ...

 

[Asoka]

Oh well indeed ! I admit I was wrong and I will surely never question any of Your claims since I'm simply blind ...

View attachment 418194

You are not blind. I have the habit of adjusting the color of the pictures, i downloaded. This is the original picture, I downloaded from https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2405892-1-3.html

One observer has speculated, that the reason J-20's previous color is different from the usual PLAAF color scheme is because its new paint is capable of optical distortion. It changes when viewing at different angle, thus, making it difficulty for other pilots to visually locate and track it, during intense dogfights maneuvers.

So, I am surprised to see that J-20 has gone back to the old PLAAF color scheme or paint.

There is a saying among fighter pilots that if you visually lost track of your opponent, during a dogfight, you will die.

So able to locate and track your opponent, visually, is very important, since the early days of dogfights in WWI.

 

[Deino]

...
One observer speculated, that the reason J-20's previous color is different from the usual PLAAF color scheme is because its new paint is capable of optical distortion. It changes when viewing at different angle, thus, making it difficulty for other pilots to visually locate and track it, during intense dogfights maneuvers.

So, I am surprised to see that J-20 has gone back to the old PLAAF color scheme or paint.

Thanks for Your reply and to admit that "original" image is indeed much more likely real ... but it is not.
Anyway the J-20's colour is indeed a very unique issue I also noted: pending the lightning-conditions even exactly the same J-20 looks very different. I'm sure it is even more a mess for modellers to get the colours right than for the F-22 and F-35.

Deino

 

[Asoka]

Thanks for Your reply and to admit that "original" image is indeed much more likely real ... but it is not.
Anyway the J-20's colour is indeed a very unique issue I also noted: pending the lightning-conditions even exactly the same J-20 looks very different. I'm sure it is even more a mess for modellers to get the colours right than for the F-22 and F-35.

Deino

Since dogfights happen at visual range, visual stealth or optical distortion, is an important direction for fighter development.

Before, we can get an invisible cloak, like in Harry Potter, a new type of paint, that will mess with our eyes, is entirely possible.

https://wfberge1336.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/invisible-clothing/

Invisible Clothing
by wfber

For new technology of fashion, I would like to know more about “invisible clothing” in real life. As the cover up cloak which Harry Potter used in the film. It will hide the body of inside and show as invisible. It is high protection and useful. So I imagined if it is possible technology in real life without magic will be a cool thing. In Mission Impossible –Ghost Protocol (2011), the characters used a screen and a camera to make an invisible cover up, it is a good concept showing in the film that is the camera recording the image of behind, then it shows on the screen. When people in front of the screen, they will see the image of behind of the screen, just as invisible screen. There are two designs about invisible clothing I found on the Internet.

1. JAPANESE INVISIBLE TECHNOLOGY: OPTICAL CAMOUFLAGE

Is he “The Invisible Man” by H.G. Wells? It looks like as if three men walking behind are seen through the body of graduate student Kazutoshi Obana during a demonstration of optical camouflage technology at the Tokyo University in Tokyo Wednesday, Feb. 5, 2003. The demonstration conducted by Faculty of Engineering Prof. Susumu Tachi is an early stage of his research that will eventually enable camouflaged objects virtually transparent by wearing an optical device. This photo was taken through a viewfinder that provides with a combined image of moving images taken behind Obana and him wearing a luminous jacket that makes a transparent effect. The technology can be useful for various professions such as surgeons who wish their own fingers and surgical tools won’t block the view of affected parts and pilots who wish cockpit floors were transparent for landings. (AP Photo/Shizuo Kambayashi)

It is designed by TACHI laboratory of the University of Tokyo in 2003. It calls “invisible cloak”.It shows the projection of behind of the cloak. The concept as the example of Mission impossible I talked about before. There is the concept diagram I found.

The technology named Optical camouflage, it is a type of active camouflage. For the result of design, I think the reflection too weak, not invisible as much as Harry Potter or Mission Impossible one. It is about the texture of the cloak.

The following clip is the demo of the invisible cloak.

2.HYPER STEALTH BIOTECHNOLOGY : “QUANTUM STEALTH” TECHNOLOGY

It is designed by a Canadian camouflage-design company. It is different with the Japanese one, specially the texture. It is something as “Quantum Stealth” technology, which let human eyes be tricked by the material with the blending light around the object inside of the cloak. The result of the reflection I think it is better than the Japanese invisible cloak. It is not easy to know the cloak here.

But in my mind, I will think about does it not work in the dark night? it is because it is blending light. By the way, there are the mockups of the design concept only. I hope it will success in not much years later.

REFERENCE LINK::

Real-Life Invisibility Cloak Claims to Make Soldiers Virtually Undetectable

http://www.ecouterre.com/real-life-...aims-to-make-soldiers-virtually-undetectable/

What is Optical Camouflage?

http://www.innovateus.net/science/w...hat+is+the+Japanese+Optical+Camouflage+cloak?

Optical Camouflage

http://www.star.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/projects/MEDIA/xv/oc.html

How Invisibility Cloaks Work

http://science.howstuffworks.com/invisibility-cloak.htm

Invisible Cloak Illusion

http://www.moillusions.com/invisible-cloak-illusion/

 

[siegecrossbow]

You are not blind. I have the habit of adjusting the color of the pictures, i downloaded. This is the original picture, I downloaded from https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2405892-1-3.html
View attachment 418200
One observer has speculated, that the reason J-20's previous color is different from the usual PLAAF color scheme is because its new paint is capable of optical distortion. It changes when viewing at different angle, thus, making it difficulty for other pilots to visually locate and track it, during intense dogfights maneuvers.

So, I am surprised to see that J-20 has gone back to the old PLAAF color scheme or paint.

There is a saying among fighter pilots that if you visually lost track of your opponent, during a dogfight, you will die.

So able to locate and track your opponent, visually, is very important, since the early days of dogfights in WWI.

This is very obviously a photoshop mocking the J-8 paintjob.

 

[maximuswarrior]

@Deino;

EDIT,

Found another image and there is indeed a opening panel on the side. So it is not a crack as it appeared.

Just look at that beauty!

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

According to CCTV's disclosed information, the current J-20 engine is the WS-10B with 145KN afterburner, while it will be soon upgraded with the 165KN WS-15 which is slightly better than the 156KN F119.

@UKBengali

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

According to China's official media, the current J-20 engine is only roughly 90% of the afterburner thrust of the F119, but the J-20 got the special aerodynamic design, so it does help the J-20 to offset the disadvantage of the underpowered engine.

Let's validate that figure, 145/156 = 0.92948717948

With the WS-15, the J-20 can tie the F-22 in the weight/thrust ratio.

Considered that 165 / 156 * 38 = 40.1923076923

The maximum takeoff for the F-22 is 38 tonnes, while 40 tonnes for the J-20. And with the special aerodynamic design and 3D TVC nozzle, the J-20 will have an edge in the super maneuverability against the F-22 raptor.

So let's conclude the J-20 with the WS-15 vs the F-22 raptor

avionics/radar/sensor: edge for the J-20
super maneuverability: edge for the J-20
stealth technology: tie
share of data link: absolutely J-20, since the F-22 raptor doesn't share any data link with other 4th gen aircrafts

So overall the J-20 does beat 3 critical categories of the 4S over the F-22 raptor, and tie in one category.

 

[UKBengali]

According to CCTV's disclosed information, the current J-20 engine is the WS-10B with 145KN afterburner, while it will be soon upgraded with the 165KN WS-15 which is slightly better than the 156KN F119.

@UKBengali

Plenty of power to allow the J-20 to supercruise close to Mach 2.
It already supercruises with WS-10b but lower than Mach 1.5 IMO.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Plenty of power to allow the J-20 to supercruise close to Mach 2.
It already supercruises with WS-10b but lower than Mach 1.5 IMO.

Yep, with the WS-15, it can certainly beat the 1.8 Mach supercruise of the F-22 Raptor.

When you see the J-20 is starting to fly with an engine whose nozzle got those saw tooth edges like the F135, then it is certainly the legendary WS-15.

BTW, China will annually produce 70-80 J-20 in four assembly hubs according to the official media, and the current J-20 will also be upgraded with the coming WS-15.

 

[UKBengali]

Yep, with the WS-15, it can certainly beat the 1.8 Mach supercruise of the F-22 Raptor.

When you see the J-20 is starting to fly with an engine whose nozzle got those saw tooth edge like the F135, then it is certainly the legendary WS-15.

BTW, China will annually produce 70-80 J-20 in four assembly hubs according to the official media, and the current J-20 will also be upgraded with the coming WS-15.

US will restart F-22 production for sure soon.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

US will restart F-22 production for sure soon.

The F-22 along with its F119 will also receive an upgrade, so the J-20 and its WS-15 will also keep upgrading.

 

[Deino]

US will restart F-22 production for sure soon.

Never !

At best they will accelerate the sixth-generation fighter program.