Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[IceCold]

For super cruise higher thrust is an important factor along with many other factors,and as the quoted statement say that the thrust on the PAF version will be lower than the chinese versions so i assume no supercruise capability

No no i understand that you need higher thrust for super cruise, what i meant was is it on PAF cards?

 

[Mani2020]

No no i understand that you need higher thrust for super cruise, what i meant was is it on PAF cards?

only a real insider at a good position and influence will be able to inform you on that which is quite difficult, otherwise its all speculation one can do at best just to keep fanboys happy ...so i will not go big with the ambiguous claims ....

 

[shawn52]

hey please share some more pictures of J-10/F-10 Aircraft

 

[Irfan Baloch]

only a real insider at a good position and influence will be able to inform you on that which is quite difficult, otherwise its all speculation one can do at best just to keep fanboys happy ...so i will not go big with the ambiguous claims ....

I would say yes to super cruise, if not on this block then maybe next one. anything that increases the endurance and range of the aircraft is desirable. and a small heat signature is never a bad idea on any given day.

if the Chinese Engine has that potential then the answer is very easily yes

 

[Irfan Baloch]

j10 might be a good plane but it sure is an ugly looking one! that intake is so big and looking from the side angle it looks even more ugly, f16 has got the intake xactly there but it looks smaller and definitely makes f16 look sleeker from side. i remember someone saying "if it looks good it flies good too". i maself am not a huge fan of j10 or any chinese jet for that matter. is there any better option for paf like mig35 or something, may be get only 30 odd better planes than buying 50 of not so good fighter jets.

true that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I wont go as far as calling it ugly. its just dull and simple just like JF-17. made purely on utilitarian principle, nothing to do with the aesthetics you only and only see in Western aircrafts, and one Russian SU-27 family.
think of J-10 as a corolla 86, that model was an icon in Pakistan back in the days. an old vintage style but its packed with almost all the modern goodies being offered by other Jet manufacturers in the same generation league.

in the B models they have redesigned the boxy air intake so it looks less offensive now.. but then again what ever is done is with utility in mind, nothing to do with competing with a western aircraft for the calendar shoot

 

[Mani2020]

I would say yes to super cruise, if not on this block then maybe next one. anything that increases the endurance and range of the aircraft is desirable. and a small heat signature is never a bad idea on any given day.

if the Chinese Engine has that potential then the answer is very easily yes

depends upon whether PAF will go beyond the initial 40/36 numbers mark (which by the way is just speculation in this point in time) otherwise if PAF wants the numbers to be only 36/40 then no question for 2nd block. The only solution then will be to modify/upgrade theses 40/36 jets at some later point but with some cost association

If PAF think they have enough money in the tank too spend upon such facilities only then PAF will go with the option otherwise may be not so soon..Obviously if you have money you will try to put every x.y and z on the aircraft but if you dont have enough money in the bag you always try to limit those goodies which might be good but not necessary

 

[Mav3rick]

I do not understand what PAF is waiting for, it would be better if we induct these Jets before IAF gets her hands on Rafales. More flight hours and more experience on these jets by PAF would be advantageous.

 

[mylovepakistan]

I do not understand what PAF is waiting for, it would be better if we induct these Jets before IAF gets her hands on Rafales. More flight hours and more experience on these jets by PAF would be advantageous.

so induction of a new platform is that simple?
off course not,

a fatigue process indeed

 

[Najam Khan]

Can any Chinese member translate after duration 1:00

 

[fatman17]

I do not understand what PAF is waiting for, it would be better if we induct these Jets before IAF gets her hands on Rafales. More flight hours and more experience on these jets by PAF would be advantageous.

the fruits of patience are more sweeter - J-10/FC-20 will be inducted in the PAF with chinese engine not before that.

 

[araz]

Sir
The news from Pshamim saheb was to the effect that the b version will have some PAF specified changes. The engine thrust would be lower but he was not forthcoming as to the reason for it. The only reason I could think of was the chinese engine. However we can potentially wait another year or two before ordering.There is no threat demanding urgent induction. Even induction in 2016-17 woukd be fine. it would allow induction of a more matured platform while we continue to develop our" cheap and low tech" plane. With the induction of more tech, I honestly dont feel the need for J 10B at least at this point in time. The only complicating factor isthe Pak-US relationship and the threat of sanctions. I also wonder whether the signal for buying J IO has strategic implications vis a vis getting some more F16s out of US. If the truth be told we would be much better off getting more F16s than J 10s purely for logistic reasons. However it maybe that in order to keep the pressure on both parties J10s serve as a strategic buy.
My 2 paisas worth.
Araz

 

[A.Rafay]

FC-20

In late-February 2006, the President of Pakistan, Pervez Musharraf, toured the J-10 and JF-17 production facilities during which the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) was offered the J-10,[18] and the purchase of 36 J-10s was approved on 12 April 2006. The J-10s would be modified to Pakistani requirements, and would equip two PAF squadrons from 2014–2015 and be known as the FC-20.

What happened to this aircraft, it seems good than JF17,When are we getting them, one seat or twin?

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I have yet to read an apology from all the superstars of this board who argued with me when I stated about how much time it would take to get these aircraft and how much time it would take for the pilots to train and time for integration.

I also stated that it would take at least 6---10 years for pak pilots to be really proficient on the JF17 aircraft----. Even our great retired warrior used sarcasm against me----.

I would like all of you to apologize for your insults and ignorance----and accept that I knew a little bit more than you did due to my experience---and you people were arguing with me just because out of ignorance and false pride----.

Please post your apologies---two of you senior most---I would also like you to resign your commission as well due to your failure in understanding the issue---.

Wouldn't you want your generals to submit their resignations when they failed in their major assessments---that is you 'agnostic muslim and you blain2'---about time you two---do the honorable thing----there are some more---you know who you are.

Fc20---possibly in another 3 to 4 years---the first batch---then integration---then game plan---pilot training----another 6 to 10 years project---and where would we end up at----almost 15 years behind in time-----.

Writing a "playbook" or operational manual will take at least a minimum of 5 years or more likely 10 years----. JF17 has been operational for how long now---I guarantee you that the paf doesn't even know 1/2 the capabilites of this aircraft as to how to use it in a practical manner because they don't have all the hardware and software ready for it.

We learnt fast on the F16's---because there was already an operational manual prepared by the americans for that aircraft---we learnt fast on the F86 because we already had a ready maanual for that aircraft---. Now it falls upon us to write that 'playbook'---we will find out---that it is as difficult a task as it can be.

So----basically in the year 2020 paf would be at the same level---if it would have purchased rafale in 2003 and gotten delivery starting around 2004---05.

4th generation planes take a long time to integrate--- a long long time---. I guarantee you people that the paf never thought how much time it would take them to have the 'play book ' written for the JF17----and then convey the training over to the pilots---forget about other problems associated with the aircraft.

Remember---what is the weakest point in a chain---its weakest link---. What is the weakest link in air force---it worst performing fighter pilot---to make that worst performing pilot into an efficient pilot in a jf17 would be a herculean task---it is a leap of technology---user friendly as it may sound to be---it is still a machine that rains death---it is not easy to master---.

It would have been much easier---if you had killed Osama Bin Laden and his toadies at tora bora and gotten yourself rid of this menace----.

FC20---3---5 years from now is worthless. F16 blk 52 would be a better purchase---because you know how it operates and yuo are mentally ready to adapt to it----there is nothing new to learn persay---.

Araz---strange coment from you about 'no threat now'---doctor---weapons system are not bought for current threats---they are bought for threats that may arise 10 to 15 years from now---whe there is not a iota of any threat around---.

You cannot buy and prepare yourself to fight these wars on the run any more---.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I apologise MK

you speak from your heart.

but requesting resignation from people for wrong PoV is unfair. in the end it was their PoV based on whatever information they had and what they made out of it.

I am sure they will keep this mistake in mind in the future.
by the way I didnt doubt you, I am just apologising in case that you didnt like some of my posts

btw Osama, tora bora and JF-17 are totally irrelevant to each other. so its very unkind to mention that.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

regarding learning and preparing a flight or fight manual (if you will).... the issue of the learning curve from novice to proficient might be true for every new aircraft created

be it J-10
be it Tejas
be it F-35


they are all infants as well as per your assertions. creating a new air craft should'nt be discouraged just because there is no in-house experience on that plane before. thats all i would like to say.

rest I would leave it as your PoV and I have no say about whether buying a western aircraft instead of inventing in JF-17 was a right choice or not. maybe we will be confronted with this dilemma forever and never be able to make one for ourselves. again I will leave the usefulness or uselessness of JF-17 from present day to next 15 years to one side. its subjective judgement... look at the alternative? continue to fly A-5s and canabalized Mirages III and IVs? let your baby out and let him learn himself, he will be bullied and slapped around, you cant control that and cant bypass that...

let this plane mature and face off if and when the time comes. self-preservation is a basic and natural instinct. and if PAF wants to keep itself as a viable and effective force then it would learn, if not then sadly the young will die in the war started by the old people. this cant be helped