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Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

Of course it would be venerable to Bullets at very close range like 4-5 KM but that is of course same for every jet because you can't hide jet visually from pilot eyes.Most WVR missiles are at 20-25KM range and i doubt it would be detected at that range.I read a interview of F18 pilot who said i could not lock my radar on F22 despite the fact that i could see the pilot.In any case; A F22 PIlot would never let anyone come close.
 
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Isn't Pakistan version of J10 i.e., J10B will be having DSI intakes?? Pictures seems to be wrong!
 
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Isn't Pakistan version of J10 i.e., J10B will be having DSI intakes?? Pictures seems to be wrong!

Perhaps... but so many stories had been going around one still doesn't know the real deal i hope soon it will be shown what we are really going to have PAF that is.:toast_sign:
 
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Of course it would be venerable to Bullets at very close range like 4-5 KM but that is of course same for every jet because you can't hide jet visually from pilot eyes.Most WVR missiles are at 20-25KM range and i doubt it would be detected at that range.I read a interview of F18 pilot who said i could lock my radar on F22 despite the fact that i could see the pilot.In any case; A F22 PIlot would never let anyone come close.

Also F-22 have more powerful engine and Trust Vectoring, So even in WVR, it is not easy to counter it.

But I think in order to counter one F-22, 4-6 fourth or 4.5 generation fighters can go for a close visual combat and have a chance even accepting after causalities.
 
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An F 16 C shot down a Raptor during a Red Flag exercise with a missile in 2007(after which it was shot down itself). Like I said, it depends upon the technology you're using against the Raptor. I suppose a Eurofighter also has a fighting chance against it if armed with 5th gen. missiles.

SU 30MKI is the most advanced jet in the Indian Air Force inventory, and the FC 20 will be the most advanced in the Pakistan Air Force. However, if both are compared, they fair equally. One might come out on top of the other in some cases, like manuverability and payload in SU 30, and maximum ceiling and speed in the FC 20. So, giving this, the SU 30 will be used for a deep-penetration attacker/bomber and the FC 20 will be used as an interceptor/bomber.
 
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An F 16 C shot down a Raptor during a Red Flag exercise with a missile in 2007(after which it was shot down itself). Like I said, it depends upon the technology you're using against the Raptor. I suppose a Eurofighter also has a fighting chance against it if armed with 5th gen. missiles.

SU 30MKI is the most advanced jet in the Indian Air Force inventory, and the FC 20 will be the most advanced in the Pakistan Air Force. However, if both are compared, they fair equally. One might come out on top of the other in some cases, like manuverability and payload in SU 30, and maximum ceiling and speed in the FC 20. So, giving this, the SU 30 will be used for a deep-penetration attacker/bomber and the FC 20 will be used as an interceptor/bomber.

In that sense the main difference between Su-30 & FC-20 is Trust Vectoring, So far Su-30 MKI and F-22 are the only jets with TVC now.
 
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If it is vulnerable to heat seeking missiles, it can't be called a fifth generation aircraft, merely 4th generation.

Do not underestimate Russians, you think Russians took so much time even to design PAK-FA to make it as 4th generation?

the cornerstone of 5th gen tech is stealth, all the other attributes like Supercruise, Supermanuverbility are for increasing survivability. Not only raptor but Rafale's engine is also optimized for low IR signatures. Russians had a choice to go near Raptor standard but that would not only require significant technological development (mean higher cost) which could hurt PAK-FA's sale prospectus as 200 Million worth AC will not find its way into much of air forces. The Russians hope that with super maneuverability, they would be able to increase the survivability. but all in all, PAK-FA is not the class of F-22
 
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In that sense the main difference between Su-30 & FC-20 is Trust Vectoring, So far Su-30 MKI and F-22 are the only jets with TVC now.

again as i said....TVC is an addition for survivability...and FC-20 is rumored to come with WS-10A which has TVC nozzle on it. Having said that MKI's heat signature will be significantly higher than that of FC-20 being a single engine fighter (not to mention 15times more RCS)
 
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An F 16 C shot down a Raptor during a Red Flag exercise with a missile in 2007(after which it was shot down itself). Like I said, it depends upon the technology you're using against the Raptor. I suppose a Eurofighter also has a fighting chance against it if armed with 5th gen. missiles.

SU 30MKI is the most advanced jet in the Indian Air Force inventory, and the FC 20 will be the most advanced in the Pakistan Air Force. However, if both are compared, they fair equally. One might come out on top of the other in some cases, like manuverability and payload in SU 30, and maximum ceiling and speed in the FC 20. So, giving this, the SU 30 will be used for a deep-penetration attacker/bomber and the FC 20 will be used as an interceptor/bomber.

here is an extract
from the Air National Guard 174th Fighter Wing will be flying training missions over the desert outside Nellis Air Force Base, trying desperately to compete during simulated combat over the high Nevada desert. Their foes are F-22 Raptors, stealth airplanes that can identify and destroy foes before their targets even know they are there.

The stakes are high--careers can be made and pilots' lives ended as dozens of warplanes share airspace in faux combat. To add to the pressure, this mission will be the Syracuse, N.Y.-based air wing's last deployment in F-16 fighters. In 2010 the wing will be assigned to fly armed drones by joystick, ending more than 60 years of manned aircraft operations.

"I'm honored to have the privilege of leading this detachment on its last deployment in the F-16," says Lt. Col. D. Scott Brenton, deputy operations group commander with the 174th Fighter Wing. "I can think of no better place to take a fighter wing on its last deployment than to Nellis." The name of the game is training, not victory, in this last mission--after all, they will be facing the most sophisticated airplane in the world.

Brenton (call sign "Gripper") has flown the F-16 for 20 years and has close to 4000 hours, including 750 hours of combat. He is also a former Weapons School instructor pilot at Nellis, the same program in which the 174th today is testing its mettle against the Raptor. He doesn't like to lose, but against the F-22 he has little choice. "Fighter pilots are competitive by nature. When the F-22 first became operational, most F-16 and F-15 pilots relished the challenge of going up against it," he says. "I know I did. That is, until I actually did it and discovered how humbling an experience it really was."

The F-22's manufacturer, Lockheed Martin, and the Air Force cite a 30:1 kill ratio between Raptors and their prey. That doesn't equate to one F-22 taking on dozens of enemies; the figure means that for every Raptor shot down, 30 opposing airplanes are expected to be killed. "The F-22 was not built to fight a fair fight," Brenton says.

The Art of Losing
No U.S. airplane--or any other in the world--can match the F-22 in a dogfight during combat training. To get experience in realistic battle conditions, Raptor pilots--always the Blue Team-- are training with U.S. pilots who serve as adversaries, or "Red Teams." Last week, Raptor pilots finished training against Navy F-15s and F/A-18 Super Hornets in Japan. From February through April, Nellis hosts F-22s at the 2009 Red Flag wargames, a six-week, multinational training exercise held at Eielson Air Force Base in Alaska and at Nellis.

F-22s dominate at Red Flag as well. Red Teams flying F-16s and F-15s take them on. Those who train to be the adversaries at Red Flag belong to the 64th and 65th Aggressor squadrons. These seasoned Red Team veterans find it frustrating to fight what they can't see. "Aggressor pilots are not typical Air Force line units. They tend to have much more experience," says Mike Estrada, a spokesman at the air base. "And I can tell you that our Aggressor pilots are getting very tired of always getting shot down by the F-22."

The reputation of the Raptor is evident in the pride that some take in downing one in simulated combat. A photo surfaced on an aviation website that recently caused a stir when the unnamed pilot of a surveillance aircraft said the silhouette of a warplane he painted on his fuselage was an F-22 that he helped locate and shoot down during an exercise. "Some Navy pilots like to brag if they even lock on to a Raptor," says one Air Force officer.

Learning Potential of a One-Sided Fight
In late March, Brenton's pilots faced F-22s at the Weapons Instructor Course (WIC), an intensive six-month training session that qualifies graduates to train other F-22 pilots from their respective units. Unlike Red Flag, WIC is a classroom, with lessons taught in the air as well as behind desks. The students' adversaries come from Air Force active-duty squadrons, National Guard and Reserve units, Navy and Marine tactical aviation units and from the indigenous Adversary Tactics Squadrons stationed at Nellis.

Red Team pilots trying to shoot down Raptors study intelligence reports about foreign countries' air forces and operate their own aircraft, missiles and radar to emulate the emerging threats and give their opponents a tough time. However, the disparity between the Raptor, which can evade enemy radar and shoot from farther away, means that Red Teams usually get the call over their radio that they have been killed before they even know the fight started.

"My F-16 is still a formidable weapons system in its own right. But it is not even in the same league as an F-22," Brenton says. "Technology keeps the F-22 a virtually undetectable and untouchable regime. It is fair to say that unless an F-22 driver makes a mistake, or has a critical system failure, I will always lose a fight against him. That is a good thing. As a nation, we want it this way. We also want him to be able to handle two, six or eight of us completely on his own."
 
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An F 16 C shot down a Raptor during a Red Flag exercise with a missile in 2007(after which it was shot down itself). Like I said, it depends upon the technology you're using against the Raptor. I suppose a Eurofighter also has a fighting chance against it if armed with 5th gen. missiles.

SU 30MKI is the most advanced jet in the Indian Air Force inventory, and the FC 20 will be the most advanced in the Pakistan Air Force. However, if both are compared, they fair equally. One might come out on top of the other in some cases, like manuverability and payload in SU 30, and maximum ceiling and speed in the FC 20. So, giving this, the SU 30 will be used for a deep-penetration attacker/bomber and the FC 20 will be used as an interceptor/bomber.

J-10B is not comparable to Su-30mki . J-10b is a cheap chinese aircraft with inferior MSA radar , avionics , EW machine etc.

On the other hand , MKI is a well reputed air superiority aircraft with TVC and superior PESA Bars radar which can detect a J-10 from 200+ kms.
[/B]:wave:
 
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J-10B is not comparable to Su-30mki . J-10b is a cheap chinese aircraft with inferior MSA radar , avionics , EW machine etc.

On the other hand , MKI is a well reputed air superiority aircraft with TVC and superior PESA Bars radar which can detect a J-10 from 200+ kms.
[/B]:wave:

Buddy dnt tell truth here otherwise you got banned
They are comparing MKI with uncomplete fighter

Engine : under development
Aesa : Pata nahi

but still batter than MKI

Now some people start to say that Chinese kept all secret so why they dnt compare J10b with F22 cuase may be its batter than F22
who knows??? :lol:
 
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Isn't Pakistan version of J10 i.e., J10B will be having DSI intakes?? Pictures seems to be wrong!

Buddy thats an old picture and info too, about the time when PAF showed interest in J-10. At that time there was no sign of j-10b

here is Fc-20
f7037ec4a1a29ff32e8d9091354a005f.jpg


Fc-20 would look like this one or it would be exactly this.
0.jpg
 
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J-10B is not comparable to Su-30mki . J-10b is a cheap chinese aircraft with inferior MSA radar , avionics , EW machine etc.

On the other hand , MKI is a well reputed air superiority aircraft with TVC and superior PESA Bars radar which can detect a J-10 from 200+ kms.
[/B]:wave:

Buddy dnt tell truth here otherwise you got banned
They are comparing MKI with uncomplete fighter

Engine : under development
Aesa : Pata nahi

but still batter than MKI


Now some people start to say that Chinese kept all secret so why they dnt compare J10b with F22 cuase may be its batter than F22
who knows??? :lol:

J-10 B's radar will definitely be MSA (mechanically scanned array radar) not AESA .

it is similar situation, as u compare ur "fighter of nowhere" LCA Tejas with worlds 4+ gen fighters.
where as
LCA in service = no where
Radar = dont know.
Engine = dont have.
maneuverability = super duper while having delta wings, only.
Class of fighter = 4+++ (just like un born Lavi )

we just wanted to make u laugh by comparing J10 with MKI as ur LCA providing us clasiical entertainment to us for the last twenty years.

happy now :)
 
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again as i said....TVC is an addition for survivability...and FC-20 is rumored to come with WS-10A which has TVC nozzle on it. Having said that MKI's heat signature will be significantly higher than that of FC-20 being a single engine fighter (not to mention 15times more RCS)

TVC always a real advantage, which was acknowledged by Singapore, US, UK & French pilots.(while exercises with IAF).

About RCS, in EW&C environment, there is hardly any surprises in the air.
 
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