Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[AVIAN]

True, but in cost of one SU30MKI PAF can have two JF-17s.

As i said, even if SU30 are on strike, PAF can scramble JF-17s which has really low RCS. Plus they can always switch their radar off and get vectored by AWACs or Ground controllers.....and find the SU30.....the thing is that for one SU30 we can have two JF17s.

Out running and out beating two jf-17s is going to be really tough for one SU30....

It is the range, endurance as well as battle field management of a particuler jet will determine its advantage over its opponents. You can have a 10 JF-17's against One Flanker, but you cannot take out the same unless you have Opeational Battlefield Management in line with PAF's current resources to match its tactics and techniques. At the same time, there is a an increasing dependency on stand off weapon as well as well establish full proof ECM and jamming system which will make life very difficult for any Ground based radar or Awacs to cop with state of the art fighters.

 

[SBD-3]

It is the range, endurance as well as battle field management of a particuler jet will determine its advantage over its opponents. You can have a 10 JF-17's against One Flanker, but you cannot take out the same unless you have Opeational Battlefield Management in line with PAF's current resources to match its tactics and techniques. At the same time, there is a an increasing dependency on stand off weapon as well as well establish full proof ECM and jamming system which will make life very difficult for any Ground based radar or Awacs to cop with state of the art fighters.

so the point is..........?????

 

[rockstarIN]

True, but in cost of one SU30MKI PAF can have two JF-17s.

As i said, even if SU30 are on strike, PAF can scramble JF-17s which has really low RCS. Plus they can always switch their radar off and get vectored by AWACs or Ground controllers.....and find the SU30.....the thing is that for one SU30 we can have two JF17s.

Out running and out beating two jf-17s is going to be really tough for one SU30....

Hi..

Just want to share something..

I think Indian air force formation will not consist only one or more Su-30s.

As did in Cope India-04 exercise, it will be a combination of Su-30s, Mig-29/Mirage-2000H + few Mig-21 Bison's.

There is high chance that from this formation, Su-30 fire long range Air to Air Missiles to the PAF interceptors and to disengage/stay away from the visual range of the air battle where as the others move on.

As the USAF pilots are very impressed with the Mig-21 performance in the excercise as track all other fighters in the radars but the Mach-2,BVR capable Mig-21s made them sweat.

 

[siegecrossbow]

True, but in cost of one SU30MKI PAF can have two JF-17s.

As i said, even if SU30 are on strike, PAF can scramble JF-17s which has really low RCS. Plus they can always switch their radar off and get vectored by AWACs or Ground controllers.....and find the SU30.....the thing is that for one SU30 we can have two JF17s.

Out running and out beating two jf-17s is going to be really tough for one SU30....

If you really think about it light and medium fighters like the F-16, JF-17, and J-10 are the better choice for the Pakistani Air Force than heavy fighters. While heavy fighters have longer range, superior weapons load, and better radar/avionics you have to keep in mind that they are also more expensive. Air defence, not long range penetration strikes, is the main purpose of the Pakistani Air Force and the light fighters, despite their short range, could cover most of Pakistan quite well.

 

[Donatello]

Hi..

Just want to share something..

I think Indian air force formation will not consist only one or more Su-30s.

As did in Cope India-04 exercise, it will be a combination of Su-30s, Mig-29/Mirage-2000H + few Mig-21 Bison's.

There is high chance that from this formation, Su-30 fire long range Air to Air Missiles to the PAF interceptors and to disengage/stay away from the visual range of the air battle where as the others move on.

As the USAF pilots are very impressed with the Mig-21 performance in the excercise as track all other fighters in the radars but the Mach-2,BVR capable Mig-21s made them sweat.

Because you had to step in...


PAF also did exercises called High mark in which JF-17s were flown alongside Mirage, F-7, F-16 and A5s.


So they pretty much know what they are doing.


Also, by 2015 we will have 3 types of aircraft. All multi-role. So it will be easy to manage them.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I tried to post some images of the J-10 manufacturing facility recently leaked by CCTV but the images won't show up. Now I am going to try reposting the links.

 

[no_name]

^^^ try uploading it to site like imageshack (free) and then link from there so the pics don't disappear.

 

[MastanKhan]

True, but in cost of one SU30MKI PAF can have two JF-17s.

As i said, even if SU30 are on strike, PAF can scramble JF-17s which has really low RCS. Plus they can always switch their radar off and get vectored by AWACs or Ground controllers.....and find the SU30.....the thing is that for one SU30 we can have two JF17s.

Out running and out beating two jf-17s is going to be really tough for one SU30....

Hi,

No it is not---first of all---iaf has 120 su 30's---pak has only 16---. Secondly---in a true bvr scenario---a batch of 4 jf 17's will be taken out by one su 30---because of its 8 bvr---two bvr's per aircraft---.

Thirdly---the su 30 doesnot need to get into close range---it can technically launch all its bvr's---turn away from the battle field---do the F22.

Now the Jf 17's are busy taking evasive measures against the missiles---when the second su 30 approaches within its 90% kill range of bvr and again launches two missiles each at those 4 jf 17---.

There is no pilot in the world that can escape two missiles at one time---leave alone 4 missiles---.

Pakistan's only hope is the amraams---which have a longer kill range than the russian missiles. The sd 10 equipped jf won't work---.

Now if the su 30 is over pak territory---the situation may become WVR----.

For a layman---each missile has a range within which the adversary has a 90 or 95 % chance of being hit. THe bvr missile on the su 30 has a loneger range than that of the sd 10.

Now as far as the F 16 and the amraam is concerned---the amraam will come out ahead.

But our real problem is the iaf will beat us up with numbers---. The heavy dutry air dominance fighters will rule the air ----there are no ifs and buts about it. The massive number of missiles that they carry are a force multiplier by itself.

For example---one jf 17 will carry----2 sd 10's----one su 30 will cary 8 bvr's----so one su 30 is equal to 4 jf 17's in weapons load.

Pakistanis must understand that the SU 30 is the pride of the russian fleet---this plane was designed to take on the F 15's and the USAF and not an overrated paf.

I understand that it is good to be nationalistic and love your country---but it needs more than that to make it a potent offencive and defencive force.

Now---if you were talking about the F 16 and the combination of J 10B's---I would say---yes---it is a threatening scenario for the iaf---but not the jf 17.

You have to look at what JF 17 is replacing.

 

[gowthamraj]

Is it confirmed that Pakistan purchased j-10

 

[razgriz19]

well i guess ur saying that jft equiped with sd-10 wont work because of sd-10's limited range, right?
welll then f-16s with amraam c-5 wont work either because russian vympel has more range than amraam!!!!

And PAF wont use thunders as interceptors!
f-16s has that job, and btw wat makes u think that thunders' pilots wouldn't fire missiles?

 

[Donatello]

Hi,

No it is not---first of all---iaf has 120 su 30's---pak has only 16---. Secondly---in a true bvr scenario---a batch of 4 jf 17's will be taken out by one su 30---because of its 8 bvr---two bvr's per aircraft---.

Thirdly---the su 30 doesnot need to get into close range---it can technically launch all its bvr's---turn away from the battle field---do the F22.

Now the Jf 17's are busy taking evasive measures against the missiles---when the second su 30 approaches within its 90% kill range of bvr and again launches two missiles each at those 4 jf 17---.

There is no pilot in the world that can escape two missiles at one time---leave alone 4 missiles---.

Pakistan's only hope is the amraams---which have a longer kill range than the russian missiles. The sd 10 equipped jf won't work---.

Now if the su 30 is over pak territory---the situation may become WVR----.

For a layman---each missile has a range within which the adversary has a 90 or 95 % chance of being hit. THe bvr missile on the su 30 has a loneger range than that of the sd 10.

Now as far as the F 16 and the amraam is concerned---the amraam will come out ahead.

But our real problem is the iaf will beat us up with numbers---. The heavy dutry air dominance fighters will rule the air ----there are no ifs and buts about it. The massive number of missiles that they carry are a force multiplier by itself.

For example---one jf 17 will carry----2 sd 10's----one su 30 will cary 8 bvr's----so one su 30 is equal to 4 jf 17's in weapons load.

Pakistanis must understand that the SU 30 is the pride of the russian fleet---this plane was designed to take on the F 15's and the USAF and not an overrated paf.

I understand that it is good to be nationalistic and love your country---but it needs more than that to make it a potent offencive and defencive force.

Now---if you were talking about the F 16 and the combination of J 10B's---I would say---yes---it is a threatening scenario for the iaf---but not the jf 17.

You have to look at what JF 17 is replacing.

You do know that SU30 has blind spots and also the fact that SU30 won't simply meet JF-17 head on??

Right?


Also, doesn't matter what range the Radar has because Missile is limitied by it's own range. Plus depending on the guidance you need Radar pointing in the target zone to guide.


Much more complex scenario than what you say here.....


In anycase your post says 1 Su30 can take out 4 JF-17s? So why upgrade? Lets keep flying the F-7 and Mirage.

 

[MastanKhan]

well i guess ur saying that jft equiped with sd-10 wont work because of sd-10's limited range, right?
welll then f-16s with amraam c-5 wont work either because russian vympel has more range than amraam!!!!

And PAF wont use thunders as interceptors!
f-16s has that job, and btw wat makes u think that thunders' pilots wouldn't fire missiles?

Hi,

A simply study of physics will suffice---just draw up some tangents.

The 90-95 % kill ratio range of the amraam is much higher than the russian long range.

But if the Vympel has a longer 90% ratio kill range higher to the amraam---then you have some serious issues.

 

[MastanKhan]

You do know that SU30 has blind spots and also the fact that SU30 won't simply meet JF-17 head on??

Right?


Also, doesn't matter what range the Radar has because Missile is limitied by it's own range. Plus depending on the guidance you need Radar pointing in the target zone to guide.

Hi,

Due to the geographic positioning of india in relation to pak---the location of their air bases---the higher number of heavy air dominance fighters they have---they can dictate the terms of engagement---the direction of approach---.

Paf is severly handicapped---the last 20 years of no procurement of a potent fighters is telling heavily on their capabilities.

It will take another 10 to 15 years for paf to reach its potentioal---right now they are living on BRAVADO.

 

[rockstarIN]

%UOTE=razgriz19;1085743]well i guess ur saying that jft equiped with sd-10 wont work because of sd-10's limited range, right?
welll then f-16s with amraam c-5 wont work either because russian vympel has more range than amraam!!!!

And PAF wont use thunders as interceptors!
f-16s has that job, and btw wat makes u think that thunders' pilots wouldn't fire missiles?

Hi,

A simply study of physics will suffice---just draw up some tangents.

The 90-95 % kill ratio range of the amraam is much higher than the russian long range.

But if the Vympel has a longer 90% ratio kill range higher to the amraam---then you have some serious issues.[/QUOTE]



As of now, there is no air fight between Western amraam vs Russian R-77 yet. Though US made F-16s & F-15s shot down several Russian made Mig 29s (Iraq, Serbian), No Migs were equipped with modern radars and BVR missiles. Even in air combat exercises, no air force will allow its pilots to use their long range radars.(Su-MKI didnt use their radars during in Red Flags & USAF F-15s during Cope India Exercises.


The only BVR air battle happened when the Eritrean-Ethiopian War, where Ethiopian Su-27s shot down Eritrean Mig-29s. So the heavy air dominance fighter(Su-27) won the battle against the light weight multi role fighter(Mig-29).

 

[raveolution]

True, but in cost of one SU30MKI PAF can have two JF-17s.

As i said, even if SU30 are on strike, PAF can scramble JF-17s which has really low RCS. Plus they can always switch their radar off and get vectored by AWACs or Ground controllers.....and find the SU30.....the thing is that for one SU30 we can have two JF17s.

Out running and out beating two jf-17s is going to be really tough for one SU30....

A very strange comment... So thinking according to your analysis, the IAF's budget is 5 times that of the PAF. So will it be 5 SU30's vs 2 JF17's?? Really!!

The number of JF-17's for the PAF is planned at 150 which may go further to 250. The number of SU-30's ordered for the IAF already stands at 270+.