Chechen warlord Doku Umarov killed by Russian Special Forces

[Abii]

Islam is as indigenous to Russia as christianity is

The Russians can't have it both ways

They want the various Republics to be part of Russia but don't want the people to expand or spread into Russia


they want friendship and influence with the muslim central asian states and they want and need muslim workers to help build Russiabut they ddon't want them expressing their faith culture and marrying or laying roots in Russia

Either give freedom to the muslim republics right up to Tatarstan and cut influence with the muslim states

Or don't get bent out of shape when you realise

muslims practice their faith more than you
have more children then you
and want to express their faith and culture as Russians

once again has anyone confirmed the death of this guy

Islam isn't native to any country except Sandistan.

And they don't want friendship with shithole Central Asian states. They want influence and they have it. If you think you'll have Islamic states in the heart of Russia you're on some serious drugs. They will wipe the floor with you terrorists the second you start barking.

Now sit down.

Russia is not a tiny city, it is the biggest country in the world and islam can be considered the native religion of very large parts of it.

Russians are peaceful christians?!!! they have commited circassian genocide, they have screwed the world by their backward communism, mass expelled people to Siberia and Central Asia, and mass murdered people.

grow up dude, If you have problem with arabs or mullahs, it does not mean that you should support every one who has problem with muslims and kills and oppress them. This generalizing is ridiculous, immature, and inhumane. That's what I clearly see in some hindus posts, like that ridiculous guy, vk_man, as well. They, and you literally worship any anti-muslim a$$hole which is disgusting.

Communism is dead and belongs to the trash can of history now.

If Russians start a mass conversion/deportation of muslims, Safavi style, tomorrow, I won't be bothered for even a second. Let them oppress b/c muslims can't live alongside other humans. They need to be controlled or they will turn everything into shit.

 

[Ahriman]

If Russians start a mass conversion/deportation of muslims, Safavi style, tomorrow, I won't be bothered for even a second. Let them oppress b/c muslims can't live alongside other humans. They need to be controlled or they will turn everything into shit.

We need more people like you Abii Those who want to see others dead, must be eradicated and be fed to pigs.

Migrants from Central Asia will soon return to their homeland. If they want to dominate in Russia - then leave by force. Nobody here prevents them pray to Allah , but no one will never allow them to become the dominant force in Russia . At home -they can do all they want to do. But not here.

That's what you get for being too kind, had you wiped the floor with them, they wouldn't dare demand anything from you now. If this continues the Russia will be overrun by Moo-slims.

 

[rmi5]

We need more people like you Abii Those who want to see others dead, must be eradicated and be fed to pigs.
That's what you get for being too kind, had you wiped the floor with them, they wouldn't dare demand anything from you now. If this continues the Russia will be overrun by Moo-slims.

Then what is the difference between you and a Salafi-wahhabi?!!! Both of you are cheering for oppressing and killing innocent people. Sorry dude, although you are claiming to converting to Atheism, but you have kept the same brutal Middle-Eastern mentality as you had before.
BTW, what makes you think that christians have been better than muslims? Slaving 30 millions of poor Africans? Stealing others wealth and land? inquisition?
BTW, enjoy reading one of your kind Russian friends masterpieces:
Ethnic cleansing of Circassians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Islam isn't native to any country except Sandistan.
And they don't want friendship with shithole Central Asian states. They want influence and they have it. If you think you'll have Islamic states in the heart of Russia you're on some serious drugs. They will wipe the floor with you terrorists the second you start barking.
Now sit down.
Communism is dead and belongs to the trash can of history now.
If Russians start a mass conversion/deportation of muslims, Safavi style, tomorrow, I won't be bothered for even a second. Let them oppress b/c muslims can't live alongside other humans. They need to be controlled or they will turn everything into shit.

The hate has impeded you to see the truth. Why do you see it with a thick muslim hating glass?
Their land is occupied by foreigners and they have been killed, tortured and oppressed and now they want their independence, Islam is like a shell for their purpose. BTW, I think we are no longer in 15th century. BTW, who the hell are Russians to decide for other nations?

 

[Abii]

Then what is the difference between you and a Salafi-wahhabi?!!! Both of you are cheering for oppressing and killing innocent people. Sorry dude, although you are claiming to converting to Atheism, but you have kept the same brutal Middle-Eastern mentality as you had before.
BTW, what makes you think that christians have been better than muslims? Slaving 30 millions of poor Africans? Stealing others wealth and land? inquisition?
BTW, enjoy reading one of your kind Russian friends masterpieces:
Ethnic cleansing of Circassians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you agree that Fascists must be oppressed and controlled, as they're in every country around the world? Of course they have some freedom to practice their beliefs, but they have severe restrictions as well. If you answer yes to that question, then a fascist can come to you and say you're doing the same thing that you're supposedly against, and he would be by definition right.

So yeah, in theory, Ahriman and I are doing the same thing the muslims would do if they had free reign. The difference is our cause. In my view, Islam should not be granted the same rights as other religions in the world until the religion is reformed. Why should the human race be held hostage for decades or maybe hundreds of years till Islam reforms? Yeah, Christians killed millions till they finally reformed the religion. That only came about when Christian dominated regions of the world had a cultural shift. That won't happen in our life time for Islam, so why should we keep losing humans and wait for these second rate members of our species to reform? Why should we repeat the same mistake that our human ancestors made with regards to Christianity?

History is history. Let's focus on today. Christians are civilized today, muslims are not.

 

[Ahriman]

Then what is the difference between you and a Salafi-wahhabi?!!! Both of you are cheering for oppressing and killing innocent people. Sorry dude, although you are claiming to converting to Atheism, but you have kept the same brutal Middle-Eastern mentality as you had before.
BTW, what makes you think that christians have been better than muslims? Slaving 30 millions of poor Africans? Stealing others wealth and land? inquisition?
BTW, enjoy reading one of your kind Russian friends masterpieces:
Ethnic cleansing of Circassians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I didn't convert to Atheism, you can't actually convert to Atheism, Atheism is not a faith. I was always an Atheist.
Anyway, the difference between you and me is that you seem to be a Muslim apologist, whereas I'm not. I do believe that if a certain group of people understand only force, as is the case with some Muslims, then lets talk to them with force. If all atrocities committed by Muslims were to be published as books, even the Library of the Congress wouldn't be able to accomodate them (the books).

Ethnic cleansing has a long history in the middle-east, from the Ottomans to Arabs, etc... Why Russians should be any different? I don't like double standards.

 

[Abii]

I didn't convert to Atheism, you can't actually convert to Atheism, Atheism is not a faith. I was always an Atheist.
Anyway, the difference between you and me is that you seem to be a Muslim apologist, whereas I'm not. I do believe that if a certain group of people understand only force, as is the case with some Muslims, then lets talk to them with force. If all atrocities committed by Muslims were to be published as books, even the library of the Congress wouldn't be able to accomodate them (the books).

Ethnic cleaning has a long history in the middle-east, from the Ottomans to Arabs, etc... Why Russians should be different? I don't like double standards.

I wouldn't call rmi an apologist. He's just an avg PC liberal. Almost all liberals are of the politically correct variety and it bugs me more than anything. The problem with the progressive cause is that it looks at the world through an anthropological centric view point. That's why you see salafis and wahabi terrorists walking around freely in Western countries. Supposedly we're all equal.

I consider myself an extremist liberal, if there's such a thing. There's a hint of irony in it, but it's only ironic if you're a politically correct every day progressive. We need to start drawing a line and roll up our sleeves and accept that not all cultures are equal. That acceptance of every religion and culture is not right and it only hinders the progress of the human race in the long-run.

 

[Ahriman]

Do you agree that Fascists must be oppressed and controlled, as they're in every country around the world? Of course they have some freedom to practice their beliefs, but they have severe restrictions as well. If you answer yes to that question, then a fascist can come to you and say you're doing the same thing that you're supposedly against, and he would be by definition right.

So yeah, in theory, Ahriman and I are doing the same thing the muslims would do if they had free reign. The difference is our cause. In my view, Islam should not be granted the same rights as other religions in the world until the religion is reformed. Why should the human race be held hostage for decades or maybe hundreds of years till Islam reforms? Yeah, Christians killed millions till they finally reformed the religion. That only came about when Christian dominated regions of the world had a cultural shift. That won't happen in our life time for Islam, so why should we keep losing humans and wait for these second rate members of our species to reform? Why should we repeat the same mistake that our human ancestors made with regards to Christianity?

History is history. Let's focus on today. Christians are civilized today, muslims are not.

I couldn't agree with you more, I guess that rmi5 hadn't any close encounter with Muslim religious nuts otherwise he would understood my point better, anyway, I don't want to drag this argument, my final words over this topic is that a religion that is openly preaching death of "infidels" should not be allowed to spread, or have any special privileges, There are nearly 1.8bn Muslims and this religion has a very special affinity with terrorism, I can even see some Arab members here openly advocating destruction of Iran and whoever/whatever standing in their path to Islamofascism.

 

[rmi5]

I didn't convert to Atheism, you can't actually convert to Atheism, Atheism is not a faith. I was always an Atheist.
Anyway, the difference between you and me is that you seem to be a Muslim apologist, whereas I'm not. I do believe that if a certain group of people understand only force, as is the case with some Muslims, then lets talk to them with force. If all atrocities committed by Muslims were to be published as books, even the library of the Congress wouldn't be able to accomodate them (the books).

Almost all religions are the same in this regard. It seems that you cannot understand this issue. When a thief comes to your home, you would kick his a$$ by any means. you may scream Allah-o Akbar if you are a muslim as well and punch the thief in the face. But, it is not yours or your religions fault. It is the thief's fault. Got it?

I couldn't agree with you more, I guess that rmi5 hadn't any close encounter with Muslim religious nuts otherwise he would understood my point better, anyway, I don't want to drag this argument, my final words over this topic is that a religion that is openly preaching death of "infidels" should not be allowed to spread, or have any special privileges, There are nearly 1.8bn Muslims and this religion has a very special affinity with terrorism, I can even see some Arab members here openly advocating destruction of Iran and whoever/whatever standing in their path to Islamofascism.

Arabs issues has roots in their desert culture as well. Islam, in the same way as the other semitic religions, and old religions, allow them to exhibit their nature. BTW, you or no one else has the right to tell others to follow or not to follow which religions. That's the meaning of liberalism and secularism. Other wise, you would be considered as a fascist, and not different from wahabis and mullahs.

 

[New]

BTW, you or no one else has the right to tell others to follow or not to follow which religions. That's the meaning of liberalism and secularism. Other wise, you would be considered as a fascist, and no different from wahabis and mullahs.

Hey man, you are just gaining more respects in my hart.
BTW, some how nice discussion here, thanks guys. @Abii @Ahriman @rmi5

 

[rmi5]

Do you agree that Fascists must be oppressed and controlled, as they're in every country around the world? Of course they have some freedom to practice their beliefs, but they have severe restrictions as well. If you answer yes to that question, then a fascist can come to you and say you're doing the same thing that you're supposedly against, and he would be by definition right.

My answer is no. You can only ban them to reach to power. But, you have no right to oppress them.

So yeah, in theory, Ahriman and I are doing the same thing the muslims would do if they had free reign. The difference is our cause.

That's what I was trying to say to @Ahriman. Does the goal rationalize the means and actions? No . What you are trying to defend is literally called fascism.

In my view, Islam should not be granted the same rights as other religions in the world until the religion is reformed. Why should the human race be held hostage for decades or maybe hundreds of years till Islam reforms? Yeah, Christians killed millions till they finally reformed the religion. That only came about when Christian dominated regions of the world had a cultural shift. That won't happen in our life time for Islam, so why should we keep losing humans and wait for these second rate members of our species to reform? Why should we repeat the same mistake that our human ancestors made with regards to Christianity?
History is history. Let's focus on today. Christians are civilized today, muslims are not.

Seriously, what is the difference between current muslims and christians? I can show you some christians photos from Mexico, and Africa, and after seeing those pictures, I am sure you would tell me that even wahabis and mullahs are more civilized than them. No REAL reform can happen without democracy, and economic progress, and every people's thoughts would experience reform with more welfare and democratic situations. That's a fact my friend. If you oppress them, like what many dictatorships have done in the world, they wouldn't get more civilized, they would get more violent.!!!
BTW, dude, I am a conservative person, and I would say even a republican.

 

[Abii]

My answer is no. You can only ban them to reach to power. But, you have no right to oppress them.

That's what I was trying to say to @Ahriman. Does the goal rationalize the means and actions? No . What you are trying to defend is literally called fascism.

Seriously, what is the difference between current muslims and christians? I can show you some christians photos from Mexico, and Africa, and after seeing those pictures, I am sure you would tell me that even wahabis and mullahs are more civilized than them. No REAL reform can happen without democracy, and economic progress, and every people's thoughts would experience reform with more welfare and democratic situations. That's a fact my friend. If you oppress them, like what many dictatorships have done in the world, they wouldn't get more civilized, they would get more violent.!!!
BTW, dude, I am a conservative person, and I would say even a republican.

Ah that explains it then, lol

Fascists are being oppressed though. And not letting them achieve anything in society is also oppression. So why is one hateful ideology restricted, while other ones are legal?

Fascism is also very different than what we're talking about. We're not playing up a specific race, religion or ideology in expense of another. We're doing the opposite. We're asking that all hateful, racist and disgusting ideologies be restricted the same way that right wing groups are restricted.

I'll bet you my next week's pay cheque that a group of pakistani/arab muslims from US/Canada are more hate filled, less rational and more destructive to the fabric of society than a group of right wing fascists. The right wingers are severely oppressed while the pakistani/arab salafis are living on our taxes and going to the local saudi/mullah funded mosque on Fridays to be among their kin and fellow terrorists.

This isn't right.

And yeah, there are equally fanatic Christians in some corner of the world practicing the *** backward desert religion as the bible says. But the overwhelming majority have evolved. Look at the Vatican, not a year goes by without major reforms. Every pope is more liberal than the previous one. Christianity and Islam are far from equal.

 

[rmi5]

Ah that explains it then, lol

Fascists are being oppressed though. And not letting them achieve anything in society is also oppression. So why is one hateful ideology restricted, while other ones are legal?

Fascism is also very different than what we're talking about. We're not playing up a specific race, religion or ideology in expense of another. We're doing the opposite. We're asking that all hateful, racist and disgusting ideologies be restricted the same way that right wing groups are restricted.

As John Stuart Mill said, oppressing one person, and not letting him to talk is the same wrongful and disgusting action as oppressing whole people. As I said before, this is called fascism. it does not matter whether you want to oppress one person, a bunch of people or whole people.

I'll bet you my next week's pay cheque that a group of pakistani/arab muslims from US/Canada are more hate filled, less rational and more destructive to the fabric of society than a group of right wing fascists. The right wingers are severely oppressed while the pakistani/arab salafis are living on our taxes and going to the local saudi/mullah funded mosque on Fridays to be among their kin and fellow terrorists.
This isn't right.

This is an another issue that we can talk about it later. The problem is about the stupid immigration system which allows stupids to be accepted more easily than intelligent people. in general, I agree with you about this issue, and the corresponding laws needs to be revised.

 

[Abii]

As John Stuart Mill said, oppressing one person, and not letting him to talk is the same wrongful and disgusting action as oppressing whole people. As I said before, this is called fascism. it does not matter whether you want to oppress one person, a bunch of people or whole people.

This is an another issue that we can talk about it later. The problem is about the stupid immigration system which allows stupids to be accepted more easily than intelligent people. in general, I agree with you about this issue, and the corresponding laws needs to be revised.

Agree on the bold part.

In your first paragraph, you didn't explain how that idea corresponds to our society's oppression of ultra right wingers themselves. We're literally oppressing them. They're watched by the state, their freedom of movement is sometimes restricted, their children can be taken away by the state if they're deemed to be in danger (teaching their kids Nazi ideology will result in the state taking them away in almost every country), they can't have political parties etc...

You can't pick and choose. If right wing groups can be oppressed, so should other destructive hate filled ideologies.

 

[rmi5]

Agree on the bold part.

In your first paragraph, you didn't explain how that idea corresponds to our society's oppression of ultra right wingers themselves. We're literally oppressing them. They're watched by the state, their freedom of movement is sometimes restricted, their children can be taken away by the state if they're deemed to be in danger (teaching their kids Nazi ideology will result in the state taking them away in almost every country), they can't have political parties etc...

You can't pick and choose. If right wing groups can be oppressed, so should other destructive hate filled ideologies.

I don't know what is the situation in Canada, but I do know that two wrongs does not make a correct one. BTW, it would be a long discussion and off-topic, lets talk about it later in Iranian Chill Thread

 

[vostok]

Then what is the difference between you and a Salafi-wahhabi?!!! Both of you are cheering for oppressing and killing innocent people. Sorry dude, although you are claiming to converting to Atheism, but you have kept the same brutal Middle-Eastern mentality as you had before.
BTW, what makes you think that christians have been better than muslims? Slaving 30 millions of poor Africans? Stealing others wealth and land? inquisition?
BTW, enjoy reading one of your kind Russian friends masterpieces:
Ethnic cleansing of Circassians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The hate has impeded you to see the truth. Why do you see it with a thick muslim hating glass?
Their land is occupied by foreigners and they have been killed, tortured and oppressed and now they want their independence, Islam is like a shell for their purpose. BTW, I think we are no longer in 15th century. BTW, who the hell are Russians to decide for other nations?

You know, if such a bad Russian do not give freedom to terrorists - why Turkey do not give freedom to the Kurds, and Azerbaijan - to Karabakh Armenians?