Chechen warlord Doku Umarov killed by Russian Special Forces

[Ahriman]

Almost all religions are the same in this regard. It seems that you cannot understand this issue. When a thief comes to your home, you would kick his a$$ by any means. you may scream Allah-o Akbar if you are a muslim as well and punch the thief in the face. But, it is not yours or your religions fault. It is the thief's fault. Got it

I do understand the issue very well, but you seem not to understand it, it could be due to the reason that you probably haven't been to places that I have been, haven't talked to the people that I did, etc... I'm sorry but your analogy is wrong, it can't be applied to an instance where an ideology is being spread in massive scale, my whole argument is based on the fact that Islam propagates hate, I'm not saying that all Muslims are hateful, but a very big chunk of them are. (Now back to your analogy) Even if your analogy holds true, then it was the "Thief's" fault that followed a certain ideology that justifies breaking into people's homes, as is the case with many Muslims, who take "Finders Keepers" approach!

Arabs issues has roots in their desert culture as well. Islam, in the same way as the other semitic religions, and old religions, allow them to exhibit their nature. BTW, you or no one else has the right to tell others to follow or not to follow which religions. That's the meaning of liberalism and secularism. Other wise, you would be considered as a fascist, and not different from wahabis and mullahs.

That's the problem, we know that Islam like the rest of religions is man-made (its not divine!) and rooted in the "desert culture" as you put it, so you just answered yourself, if an ideology is not native to a region and that ideology could be exploited by certain countries then that ideology is harmful, everything has its limit, same goes to Liberalism and Secularism, moreover in this case Russia has never claimed to be a Liberal country, and even if it was, if Liberalism could be exploited to spread hate and terrorism then those loopholes must be closed. I'm sorry but the very religion that you're defending is based on fascism, countering Fascism doesn't necessarily makes a me Fascist.

From a Secular perspective, if extremists be allowed to spread their ideology then they will eventually demand more and more privileges which can be extremely harmful to Secularism itself, just look at what is happening in Britain!

As John Stuart Mill said, oppressing one person, and not letting him to talk is the same wrongful and disgusting action as oppressing whole people. As I said before, this is called fascism. it does not matter whether you want to oppress one person, a bunch of people or whole people.

Good, so you are familiar with John Stuart Mill, then I'm sure you're also familiar with Utilitarianism, it doesn't matter what its called (Nonetheless, I don't agree with it being Fascism) the principle stays the same, as long as a repeated action generates greatest amount of happiness it can be justified, that is based on an ethical theory that Mill himself contributed to, so if a religious minority has to be oppressed in order for the rest of the country to live in peace then the action (to oppress them) is justifiable.

 

[Secularpakistani]

This news was a hoax news.He is still alive.
Dokka Umarov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ahriman]

Hey man, you are just gaining more respects in my hart.
BTW, some how nice discussion here, thanks guys. @Abii @Ahriman @rmi5

Thanks bro

 

[hussain0216]

Whoah whoa whoa


This thread started with the now probably fake news that this Doku is dead, I have seen no information to support that

I don't condemn guys like Doku how can you he msy be ruthless vicious brutal

but no more so then the people/russians he opposes

I have no problems with right wing salafi types describing the likes of Abhi or ahiram as sub humans, why should I they are just hateful flip sides of the same coin, in some cases you need guys like Doku to hold a knife against necks (theoretically speaking) to simply show them don't have the freedom to oppress without consequences

islam is spreading our enemies will always hate us but this is why they are called kaffirs, this is God's term for these people




Islam is as indigenous to Russia as christianity is

You cant change that chchens, tartars, are part of Russia and should be free to express expand their religion across Russia


is some Russians wish to convert to Islam then you can't stop them this is an act of faith on their part

The whole weight of communism didn't bresk russian muslim resolve it won't be broken now

 

[Vinod2070]

is some Russians wish to convert to Islam then you can't stop them this is an act of faith on their part

Some religions seem to not look at conversion in so friendly a term.

78% Pakistanis want apostates leaving Islam to be killed.

Pakistani Public Opinion | Pew Global Attitudes Project

Saudi Arabia has a criminal justice system based on a hardline and literal form of Sharia law reflecting a particular state-sanctioned interpretation of Islam.

The death penalty can be imposed for a wide range of offences[2] including murder, rape, false prophecy, armed robbery, repeated drug use, apostasy,[3] adultery,[4] witchcraft and sorcery[5] and can be carried out by beheading with a sword

 

[hussain0216]

So whats wrong with that

Normally I would say you can't or shouldn't force people to do or believe anything they don't want to

but the militant atheists are proposing oppression of millions of muslims


How can we condemn iran or Saudi when the militant atheists propose oppression of so many muslims


I have given up opposing oppression of Hindus in bangla or pak because the same Hindus who cry about the oppression, support what happens to the Rohinga in burma or kashmirs

how can we condemn iran or Saudi for coming down with a iron fist on liberals when the sake liberals above advocate oppression of so many muslims

 

[Vinod2070]

If you can't see what is "wrong with that", I doubt I want to spend the effort...

 

[hussain0216]

So to the likes of Abhi, you ahiram oppression of muslims = good

Oppression of anyone else= bad

 

[vostok]

Russia - is a federation. In this federation, there are regions where Islam - traditional religion. And no one forbids them to build mosques and practice Islam. But nobody will allow them to spread Islam beyond these regions. Because it will lead to an exacerbation of inter-religious relations. And will suffer primarily Muslims themselves.

 

[hussain0216]

So they are not really Russians then

and who are you or even the Russian government to determine what Russians should be allowed to believe or not

 

[Cheetah786]

Congratulations! and, thank you Russia. One less shit head we have to worry about in Pakistan.

May he rest in peace.

Isn't it funny how most of the supporters live in countries not yet effected by terrorism.

 

[vostok]

So they are not really Russians then

and who are you or even the Russian government to determine what Russians should be allowed to believe or not

Again you did not understand me. Why should the Russian convert to Islam? We are not forcing Muslims to convert to Orthodoxy. Respect our faith, and we will respect yours. But do not try to convert us into your faith.

 

[Abii]

So to the likes of Abhi, you ahiram oppression of muslims = good

Oppression of anyone else= bad

You just said that a person that leaves your deranged ideology must be killed.

In that case you need to be oppressed. You and your kind aren't fit to walk alongside other humans.

 

[Chronos]

This wolf business is not helping the cause.

it is about time Pakistanis realize the $hitty outcomes from such wolfs and wolfs of Uzbek and Arab variety.

How long will take for our educated elite to realize that such $tupid people.

How forking long will it take?

Peace

I like how you went on a rant there and then said peace

 

[hussain0216]

Again you did not understand me. Why should the Russian convert to Islam? We are not forcing Muslims to convert to Orthodoxy. Respect our faith, and we will respect yours. But do not try to convert us into your faith.

No one is trying to convert you, you can beleive in whatever you like, but if the man or women down the road wish to seek faith and God and find islam why should anyone have a problem with it.

You just said that a person that leaves your deranged ideology must be killed.

In that case you need to be oppressed. You and your kind aren't fit to walk alongside other humans.

Thats the problem matey, you hate and want to oppress muslims I have no problem with that your a kaffir thats what your supposed to do, but why should muslims stand idle and allow that to happen and not respond.

There is no difference between you and e.g hardcore salafi's or even iranian hardliners how can you condemn people like Doku for being extreme and stringing up a your loved apostates when the flip side of the coin is haramii's like you