Changing times: Ijtihad and other questions Muslims must revisit

[Zarvan]

You have to prove it otherwise, you moron. Teach us some history. Jinnah's speeches clearly said secular Pakistan with Islamic principles.

 

[Zarvan]

you didnt get his point ..... he is talking about that if a non muslim is capable of leading you , than its not bad ... there is no rule that the leader must be a muslim ... for example Hazrat Ali RA once said " kufr ka nizaam chal jaye ga , lakin zulum ka nizaam nai chale ga "
i am ready to live under a non muslim president instead of living in some lunatic mulla who knowledge about islam is similar to justin beiber knowledge about music

In Islam no non Muslim can be ruler that is simple enough

 

[Norwegian]

If you put succeed in building a country on nationalism, your people will rarely(if ever) disappoint you. I have zero doubts that a Hindu President of USA would work first for USA then think of anything else.

This secular concept of nationalism and faith is alien to bigoted Islamic minds who follow traditional tribal mindset of loyalty and faith. Clearly these bigots do not understand that real traitors in India were Muslim leaders themselves like Mir Jafar and Mir Sadiq who gladly sold out their "Islamic nation" to British interests for small chunks of land. LOL

i probably think that Islam itself a secular way of living under limitation which is always in favor of strengthen the society... i am in favor of both secular and islam but everything if it remains under limits is good ...

What limitation are you talking about? Secularism means separation of state and religious affairs. That's it.

Funny seculars who don't even offer any salah wants to do ijtihad.

LOL. Ijtehad is the duty of every Muslim, not only dumb ulemas.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

dude, i am talking about real Islam, Islam gives equal rights to Non Muslims, no? like Madinah, Jews and specially Christians lived there happily, no?

I am not a Muslim. But if a non muslim person, is so capable in his administrative capabilities, then y not make him PM or President? After all a state is administrative as agreed by you. Then y you argue, sensitive posts like PM or President should reside with muslim only, even if Real Islam is followed?

 

[rockstar08]

In Islam no non Muslim can be ruler that is simple enough

please show me a verse or hadith over it

 

[Mav3rick]

Is suicide bombing justified? Can women lead prayers? Is there a feminist interpretation of Islam?

1. Suicide, of any kind, is Haraam in Islam, as well as all other Abrahamic religions, and thus suicide bombings can not be justified under any school of Islam.

2. Can a Male human give birth to a child? Nature has divided certain roles, responsibilities and abilities between the two sexes. Women have defined roles and so do Men. Women can not lead prayers, not in any Abrahamic religions.

3. There is only a human interpretation of Islam, Islam is not interpreted based on human sex.

 

[Norwegian]

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Now, let me know where did Jinnah advocate for theocracy or Islam being part of every matter in Pakistan? Jinnah is talking about implementing Islamic PRINCIPLES such as social justice, economic justice, democratic justice etc etc which is nowhere to be found in Western secular democracies.

 

[Jf Thunder]

I am not a Muslim. But if a non muslim person, is so capable in his administrative capabilities, then y not make him PM or President? After all a state is administrative as agreed by you. Then y you argue, sensitive posts like PM or President should reside with muslim only, even if Real Islam is followed?

look, if we make suppose a person from religion "xyz' a PM, and converts the Muslim state into a secular state according to his own wishes, then what?
so that all the argument i got for this

 

[rockstar08]

This secular concept of nationalism and faith is alien to bigoted Islamic minds who follow traditional tribal mindset of loyalty and faith. Clearly these bigots do not understand that real traitors in India were Muslim leaders themselves like Mir Jafar and Mir Sadiq who gladly sold out their "Islamic nation" to British interests for small chunks of land. LOL


What limitation are you talking about? Secularism means separation of state and religious affairs. That's it.


LOL. Ijtehad is the duty of every Muslim, not only dumb ulemas.

well islam itself gives a proper structure for a state .. and this was proved by Hazrat Omar RA ... but thing is today peoples take this word secular and use it wrong way .... as peoples mis use islam ..

 

[Jf Thunder]

Not just the third President.
The man who built India's Agni series of missiles is also a Muslim - and who also went on to become the most popular President of India -Dr. A.P.J Abdul Kalam.

He is also till date the only person after whom India's ballistic missiles have been named to honour him - the K series BM's. Otherwise all of India's BM's are named after elements of the earth - Agni, Prithvi, etc.

Apart from that the current head of India's IB(counter terrorism czar) is a Muslim.

Not to mention we have Sikh Army Chiefs(repeatedly) and Christian Airforce Chief's apart from a Sikh PM for 2 terms!

If you put succeed in building a country on nationalism, your people will rarely(if ever) disappoint you. I have zero doubts that a Hindu President of USA would work first for USA then think of anything else.

you are a secular country. we were not meant to be one.
we have had many Non Muslim Generals, my favorite being Maj Gen Akhtar Hussain Malik

 

[Norwegian]

In Islam no non Muslim can be ruler that is simple enough

In your bigoted view of Islam, no Muslim woman can lead the nation, yet people of Pakistan voted for Benazir Bhutto like crazy. What went wrong?

 

[Jf Thunder]

Role of non-Muslim parliamentarians on reserved seats in Pakistani politics is non-existent. During lifetime of Jinnah, his cabinet had Hindu, Qadiani, even Christian ministers on top most posts. Same is not even close to today.

yes and these very perons sat together with Maulana Shabbir Ahmed to make the "Objectives Resolution"

 

[Mav3rick]

Saudi royal family's unchallenged rule in Arabian Peninsula is also decided in the Koran and Sunnah? @Horus please banish @Zarvan from this thread.

That is dictatorship and totalitarianism of the best kind, Islam has nothing to do with that.

I say it is of the best kind because under the system the citizens get treated like royals, to a certain extent, unlike true dictatorships.

 

[Jf Thunder]

Says who? Muslim sources? Jewish sources say otherwise. Now back to history and find out the real truth why only Jewish tribes were massacred and expelled for treachery.

yes and treachery is a very good deed, yes?

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

look, if we make suppose a person from religion "xyz' a PM, and converts the Muslim state into a secular state according to his own wishes, then what?
so that all the argument i got for this

You do know its not possible like that in a democracy. He will be rebelled by his own party members. And moreover as a PM, he knows what better directions a country should take to deliver a goal in reducing poverty, economy and military strength. And the decisions can be popular and might be unpopular as well .
The question is if a person can deliver, irrespective of his faith.
Lets assume even if that president converts ur nation to secular, does it going to have any bearing for individual pakistanis?
Many young want jobs, education, peace.