Chabahar vs Gwadar

[kollang]

Advantages of Chabahar:

1-it is highly secured and safe and some important military bases are located, there.there are only few terrorist activities at Pakistan border.

2-Chabahar is going to be connected to the national rail transport system very soon.our rail system is connected to Turkmenistan(and Turkmenistan is connected to all central Asian countries), Azerbaijan, Armenian( already connected to Goergia and Russia), Turkey (connected to Europe) and Iraq.apart from rail system India can reach Russia via a direct sea rout from bandar Anzali in south of Caspian lake to Astra khan port of Russia in north of the lake.and Astra is connected to Moscow. Our subways are in accordance to international standards as well.

3- Iran's economy- even despite the sanctions- is faaaaaarrr better than that of Pakistan and there is a very high possibilty of removal of all sanctions which will result in massive improvement in economy.our GDP already ranks 17th .all in all Iran is a more attractive country for trading.

The Pakistani port has no significant advantage.

 

[tsinga]

We can kid because we are not poorest on Planet...

Once again.

It is a bilateral investment treaty between India and Iran to build a port.

The Pakistani logic is always the weirdest one. They never understand any news or law and yet keep yapping thinking everything in the world is a street slanging match and the guy yelling loudest will win.

The two most common fallacies almost all Pakistanis have is:

1. EEZ is "Pakistani sea" and Pakistan can stop or block Indian ships. Tried to explain again and again, that no, Pakistan has as much right as Saudi Arabia to stop any ship in its EEZ..that is to say none. Its illegal under international law.

2. India and Iran shouldnt build a port because Pakistanis say so.


Illiteracy is a major curse on Pakistan...and the way the Pakistanis talk, it is a reflection of their society on how much they value(or not) knowledge.

India and Iran are both economically better off than Pakistan. Neither of us need Pakistanis(of all the economists in the world) to explain what is viable and beneficial for our countries and what is not.

Advantages of Chabahar:

1-it is highly secured and safe and some important military bases are located, there.there are only few terrorist activities at Pakistan border.

2-Chabahar is going to be connected to the national rail transport system very soon.our rail system is connected to Turkmenistan(and Turkmenistan is connected to all central Asian countries), Azerbaijan, Armenian( already connected to Goergia and Russia), Turkey (connected to Europe) and Iraq.apart from rail system India can reach Russia via a direct sea rout from bandar Anzali in south of Caspian lake to Astra khan port of Russia in north of the lake.and Astra is located to Moscow. Our subways are in accordance to international standards as well.

3- Iran's economy- even despite the sanctions- is faaaaaarrr better than that of Pakistan and there is a very high possibilty of removal of all sanctions which will result in massive improvement in economy.our GDP already ranks 17th .all in all Iran is a more attractive country for trading.

The Pakistani port has no significant advantage.

I don't see the relevance of Pakistani port in all of this.

Pakistani port is going to be used by Chinese.

The Iranian port is going to be used by many countries including India to trade with Central Asia and Afghanistan all the way upto Turkey as Iran is integrating Chabahar with its national transportation networks.

I don't see them overlapping at all. Different clientele and different targets. I don't understand at all why Pakistanis are acting so insecure.

Maybe according to them the rest of the world should stop developing ports because Pakistan is building one.

 

[anonymus]

Wow! That is what I call a detailed analysis! A far cry from the cut and paste keyboard warriors!

So does that mean transporting goods via the Gwadar - Kashgar route is unviable due to exorbitant costs involved in transportation?? If it is, then this project is a lemon, only to be used by China as an alternative route in case of an emergency, seeing that the cost of transporting goods from Shanghai to Gwadar is $440 per ton! (Rs 44,000 PKR per ton!! ) Am I correct?

Yes.

It should have been a no brainer for anyone except the deluded ones.

Cost of Shipping Via sea is always multiple times less than via Land. This is the reason why most of international trade is conducted vis sea. China would find it cheaper to transport a container from Dubai to any of its city, then the transportation cost that container would incur "Within Pakistan" itself.

Someone should have checked freight cost before chest-thumping.

It may not be main route but it will be main energy route for china gas pipeline and oil pipeline from Gulf,Your calculations are based upon Shanghai,there is province bordering Pakistan where china is building huge industrial capacity,this very road will serve as main trade route to those areas which are away from Yellow sea and near to Gawadar

Energy route from where to where?

If you look at the map properly, China borders Gas and Oil rich Central Asia and has three mega pipelines running from Central Asia to China, including world's longest pipeline.

Of anything that China needs, the least thing that China needs in XinXiang is Energy. It could get ample amount of it just from across the border , some 100's of Km away.

Why would it bother bringing oil and Gas through Gwadar? This when apart from sky high transport cost due to distance, it would also have to pay for Break-of-Bulk at Gwadar.

If it want Energy for XinXiang, it could get it easily from CAR.

If it want Energy for its Eastern Seaboard, it could easily get it from CAR, failing which transport via SHips would be more economical than any pipeline from Gwadar.

​

As I said, people should check elementary facts before making an assertion.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Energy route from where to where?

If you look at the map properly, China borders Gas and Oil rich Central Asia and has three mega pipelines running from Central Asia to China, including world's longest pipeline.

Of anything that China needs, the least thing that China needs in XinXiang is Energy. It could get ample amount of it just from across the border , some 100's of Km away.

Why would it bother bringing oil and Gas through Gwadar? This when apart from sky high transport cost due to distance, it would also have to pay for Break-of-Bulk at Gwadar.

If it want Energy for XinXiang, it could get it easily from CAR.

If it want Energy for its Eastern Seaboard, it could easily get it from CAR, failing which transport via SHips would be more economical than any pipeline from Gwadar.

China To Build Gas Pipeline From Gwadar to Nawabshah | PKPolitics - Pakistan Politics
Energy infrastructure: China to build gas pipeline from Gwadar to Nawabshah - The Express Tribune
China–Pakistan Economic Corridor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Economic corridor: Chinese official sets record straight - The Express Tribune
It is the larges Sino investment overseas and it will be network of railroads,highways and energy pipelines.If you want to live in denial mode you can.

 

[anonymus]

China To Build Gas Pipeline From Gwadar to Nawabshah | PKPolitics - Pakistan Politics
Energy infrastructure: China to build gas pipeline from Gwadar to Nawabshah - The Express Tribune
China–Pakistan Economic Corridor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Economic corridor: Chinese official sets record straight - The Express Tribune
It is the larges Sino investment overseas and it will be network of railroads,highways and energy pipelines.If you want to live in denial mode you can.

Actually, I always talk with solid facts ,it is you who is in denail.

Nawabshah District is not on Pak-China border. It is in Sindh nearly 900Km away Distance Between Gwadar Nawabshah, Gwadar Nawabshah Distance,Gwadar Nawabshah Road Distance, Distance From Gwadar Nawabshah , and 1896 Km away from Kashghar.

This pipleline is not meant for China, and by charging you $3Bn for it, Chinese are robbing you blind.


As I said before, people should check elementary facts before asserting something. You did not even knew location of Nawabshah district of your own country.

 

[Sine Nomine]

@anonymus It is part of same set up known as Pak-China EC,for china they think Gawadar is better option that's why they are building this project,You think chahbar is better for you,your country is building it.

 

[anonymus]

@anonymus It is part of same set up known as Pak-China EC,for china they think Gawadar is better option that's why they are building this project,You think chahbar is better for you,your country is building it.

Just because this pipeline is of same loan package that China has granted you does not mean that China has any intention of using this pipeline.

As proven , this pipeline does not end anywhere near the border of China. It even does not go up till your Punjab. It is for Pakistan usage and China is providing you loan for that as part of "corridor package".


And yes,Chahbhar is better for us. Probably you have forgotten that you do not provide us transit to Afghanistan and CAR. Chahbhar would solve that problem for us , and would make Afghanistan less dependent on you by giving them an option of alternative port at edistance to that of Gwadar or Karachi.

Distance between Delaram to Kabul = 730.8 Km

Distance between Delaram to Zaranj = 218 Km

Distance between Zaranj to Chahbhar = 932 Km

Total distance between Kabul and Chahbhar = 1880.8 Km

Total distance between Kabul and Karachi = 1400Km

Total distance between Kabul and Gwadar = 1800Km

 

[Sine Nomine]

Just because this pipeline is of same loan package that China has granted you does not mean that China has any intention of using this pipeline.

As proven , this pipeline does not end anywhere near the border of China. It even does not go up till your Punjab. It is for Pakistan usage and China is providing you loan for that as part of "corridor package".


And yes,Chahbhar is better for Us. Probably you have forgotten that you do not provide us transit to Afghanistan and CAR. Chahbhar would sole that problem for us , and would make Afghanistan less dependent on you by giving them an option of alternative port at equal distance to that of Gwadar or Karachi.

There is already a huge pipeline running from that area to upper part of country.When did i say that.Afghanistan will remain dependent upon Pakistan.

 

[hussain0216]

Is this argument still ongoing

Whats the point

Gwader will be used by China, Pakistan, GCC/Arabs the network will eventually link up through the Afghan panhandle with central asia with them being able to use both gwader and the iranian route (competition is slways good)


Chabahar can be used by the Indians once its developed, central asians may also use it as an alternative to gwader to keep the competition


Part of the prize is the minerals in Pakistan and Afghanistan, these minerals if they are to be mined in Afghanistan can be taken straight to china via the economic corridor

India has been frozen out once chabahar is developed they can try to use the extend route


It is Pakistans responsibility to keep them from obtaining any mineral etc from Afghanistan one way or the other

 

[anonymus]

There is already a huge pipeline running from that area to upper part of country.When did i say that.Afghanistan will remain dependent upon Pakistan.

This is map of your pipelines

​

Not a single one of them ends anywhere near China border.

And your assertion is based of faulty understanding of how pipelines work. Pipelines are laid down for a specified capacity, thus unless Pakistanis stop using gas, there is no chance of any gas being transported to China. If CHina would want your gas, either it would have to lay down new pipeline, or upgrade your existing one.

So....

1.China has made no commitment of extending existing Pakistani Pipelines to its border.

2.China has made no commitment of upgrading existing pipeline.

3.China has only committed itself to build a pipeline which does not even come up 1/4 the distance between CHinese and Pakistani border.

4.Building any Oil or Gas pipeline from Gwadar, when Energy rich CAR and Russia is just 100 Km away from Xinxinag, does not make any economic sense.


YET, Pakistanis think that Gwadar would serve as an Energy hub!!

 

[haman10]

stood with Pakistan

why should we stand with pakistan ? what kind of a use do you have for us ?

how possibly could that benefit us in any sort ?

prefers India over Pakistan

we prefer them to you in regards to what ? trade ? they are 100 times bigger economy .

politics ? they don't suffer from 180 degree turns in their policies every now and then . they are an stable country , unlike you .

give us 1 simple reason why we should prefer pakistan to India ?

being an "enemy" is different than "not being allies" ? can you get this simple thing ? huh ?

at the cost of one's next-door neighbor,

what does our relation has to do with you ?

how was our relation "at the cost of you" ?

 

[Sine Nomine]

why should we stand with pakistan ? what kind of a use do you have for us ?

how possibly could that benefit us in any sort ?

And we are also not dying for a dead Persian Empire.And we also think on same line other then Islam we have no relation thanks to your Mullah Brigade it will also fade sooner or later.

 

[Kurlang]

 

[hussain0216]

why should we stand with pakistan ? what kind of a use do you have for us ?

how possibly could that benefit us in any sort ?


we prefer them to you in regards to what ? trade ? they are 100 times bigger economy .

politics ? they don't suffer from 180 degree turns in their policies every now and then . they are an stable country , unlike you .

give us 1 simple reason why we should prefer pakistan to India ?

being an "enemy" is different than "not being allies" ? can you get this simple thing ? huh ?

what does our relation has to do with you ?

how was our relation "at the cost of you" ?

EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY

try telling this to the dumbos who think we shouldn't take advantage of the alliances built up with the GCC or Turkey and aid in Syria or Yemen

We get nothing from iran, nor do we trade with iran that much. If iran can aid india who is Pakistans mortal enemy why the **** are 'some' pakistanis getting bent out of shape at risking a non existing relationship with iran over Yemen or Syria

 

[haman10]

And we are also not dying for a dead Persian Empire.And we also think on same line other then Islam we have no relation thanks to your Mullah Brigade it will also fade sooner or later.

i didn't understand a word you said .

but here is my estimation :

1- Iran wishes Pakistan to be dead .

2-its Iran's fault that our relations are cold right now .

=================

Ghanas , you talk about islam right now and how we should unite as 2 muslim nations , but you , yourself , jump on every thread possible regarding the situation in Iraq and Syria or even yemen and claim that we're not muslims cause we're shia .

please decide if we're muslims or not , then we can talk about islamic reconciliation

over Yemen or Syria

you're insignificant .

and i really mean insignificant . saudis just wanted some "meat defense shield" if you will . they wanted to send your poor soldiers to fight for them .

if you think pakistan denied saudi request for Iran , you're an imbecile person .