Chabahar vs Gwadar

[punit]

Let's ban the Indians, shouldn't let them propagate their crap on here

better start ur own forum !

 

[Mr.Nair]

This is map of your pipelines

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Not a single one of them ends anywhere near China border.

And your assertion is based of faulty understanding of how pipelines work. Pipelines are laid down for a specified capacity, thus unless Pakistanis stop using gas, there is no chance of any gas being transported to China. If CHina would want your gas, either it would have to lay down new pipeline, or upgrade your existing one.

So....

1.China has made no commitment of extending existing Pakistani Pipelines to its border.

2.China has made no commitment of upgrading existing pipeline.

3.China has only committed itself to build a pipeline which does not even come up 1/4 the distance between CHinese and Pakistani border.

4.Building any Oil or Gas pipeline from Gwadar, when Energy rich CAR and Russia is just 100 Km away from Xinxinag, does not make any economic sense.


YET, Pakistanis think that Gwadar would serve as an Energy hub!!

China can access to pipeline via Myanmar which is well connected to eastern side of china in which majority population and industries exist.The import for china in gwadar is only meant to western chinese border which is very remote and underdeveloped compared to east.Transporting goods from gwadar to eastern china is very expensive and not safe compared the existing sea route.

 

[hussain0216]

i didn't understand a word you said .

but here is my estimation :

1- Iran wishes Pakistan to be dead .

2-its Iran's fault that our relations are cold right now .

=================

Ghanas , you talk about islam right now and how we should unite as 2 muslim nations , but you , yourself , jump on every thread possible regarding the situation in Iraq and Syria or even yemen and claim that we're not muslims cause we're shia .

please decide if we're muslims or not , then we can talk about islamic reconciliation


you're insignificant .

and i really mean insignificant . saudis just wanted some "meat defense shield" if you will . they wanted to send your poor soldiers to fight for them .

if you think pakistan denied saudi request for Iran , you're an imbecile person .

We are a growing nuclear power with 200 nuclear warheads, missiles, jets, tanks you name it with a population of 200 million we havent had our balls snipped off by the west like you

The saudis wanted someone they knew had the experience to do the job, We were RIGHT not to get involved but should at least help more because alliances ate vital in the future and iran is useless for us

China can access to pipeline via Myanmar which is well connected to eastern side of china in which majority population and industries exist.The import for china in gwadar is only meant to western chinese border which is very remote and underdeveloped compared to east.Transporting goods from gwadar to eastern china is very expensive and not safe compared the existing sea route.

The whole point is a direct route straight to chinese territory through a reliable ally

What don't you get about this

 

[haman10]

we havent had our balls snipped off by the west like you

no of course not

Drone strike ? it was Iran . humiliation ? it was Iran . killing civilians ? it was Iran .

10 year old negotiations with world's greatest powers ? it was pakistan

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/w...nato-helicopters-kill-dozens-of-soldiers.html

 

[kollang]

EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY

try telling this to the dumbos who think we shouldn't take advantage of the alliances built up with the GCC or Turkey and aid in Syria or Yemen

We get nothing from iran, nor do we trade with iran that much. If iran can aid india who is Pakistans mortal enemy why the **** are 'some' pakistanis getting bent out of shape at risking a non existing relationship with iran over Yemen or Syria

You can do as much trade as you want with anybody on the planet.but if guys want to step against our national interests in the region,our cold Iran-Pak relationship will lower to emnity level which is not sth we would be happy with.I highly advice Pakistan to stay away from this regional flame.

 

[Mr.Nair]

We are a growing nuclear power with 200 nuclear warheads, missiles, jets, tanks you name it with a population of 200 million we havent had our balls snipped off by the west like you

The saudis wanted someone they knew had the experience to do the job, We were RIGHT not to get involved but should at least help more because alliances ate vital in the future and iran is useless for us




The whole point is a direct route straight to chinese territory through a reliable ally

What don't you get about this

The whole point is whether a project is feasible or not and may be feasible to its western border.Even india can become biggest oil producing nation, but digging oil out of ground is not feasible except certain areas.

 

[hussain0216]

You can do as much trade as you want with anybody on the planet.but if guys want to step against our national interests in the region,our cold Iran-Pak relationship will lower to emnity level which is not sth we would be happy with.I highly advice Pakistan to stay away from this regional flame.

India is our mortal enemy, a nation which has occupied kashmir a nation we have had 4 wars with, yet you do not think this is iran hurting Pakistani interests?

Tell me, india has involved itself with proxies to attack Pakistan, we have actively tried to block and clear them from Afghanistan. The use of Chabahar is a long way off as an effective port but what do you think Pakistan should do about iran trying to help our enemy try to get a route into Afghanistan and beyond

 

[syedali73]

why should we stand with pakistan ? what kind of a use do you have for us ?

how possibly could that benefit us in any sort ?


we prefer them to you in regards to what ? trade ? they are 100 times bigger economy .

politics ? they don't suffer from 180 degree turns in their policies every now and then . they are an stable country , unlike you .

give us 1 simple reason why we should prefer pakistan to India ?

being an "enemy" is different than "not being allies" ? can you get this simple thing ? huh ?

what does our relation has to do with you ?

how was our relation "at the cost of you" ?

Hence my statement, Iran is not friend,and you just proved it.

BTW, it was not Pakistan that voted against Iran in IAEA, it was India, and together with your enemies US, Britain, France ,Germany.

 

[hussain0216]

The whole point is whether a project is feasible or not and may be feasible to its western border.Even india can become biggest oil producing nation, but digging oil out of ground is not feasible except certain areas.

Of course its feasible You have Pakistan which is A 200 million strong nation which is on the cusp of economic revival which will become a massive market In its own, you have a underdeveloped western china which requires china intends to develop

You have a direct route to the GCC and beyond and vice versa

No one is saying this will be china's sole route but it without doubt is feasible

 

[Ajai Ghale]

no of course not

Drone strike ? it was Iran . humiliation ? it was Iran . killing civilians ? it was Iran .

10 year old negotiations with world's greatest powers ? it was pakistan

/2011/11/27/world/asia/pakistan-says-nato-helicopters-kill-dozens-of-soldiers.html[/url]

The whole point is whether a project is feasible or not and may be feasible to its western border.Even india can become biggest oil producing nation, but digging oil out of ground is not feasible except certain areas.

New oil exploration is going on .. Recent years Mangla oilfields was a big discovery

 

[Sine Nomine]

i didn't understand a word you said .

but here is my estimation :

1- Iran wishes Pakistan to be dead .

2-its Iran's fault that our relations are cold right now .

=================

Ghanas , you talk about islam right now and how we should unite as 2 muslim nations , but you , yourself , jump on every thread possible regarding the situation in Iraq and Syria or even yemen and claim that we're not muslims cause we're shia .

please decide if we're muslims or not , then we can talk about islamic reconciliation

Well is case of syria,Iraq and Yeman i just said KSA goes to East-West we are not with him at all.For case of Iraq and Syria are'nt you just helping them by men and material on sectarian basis my friend no one is blind every sunni can see You cooperation with US in Iraq whom Khomeini called"Shaytân-e Bozorg" and "Marg Bar Amrika" what Iran and US gained from fall of Saddam,only more blood of poor Iraqis,Iran served US on same lines as did Pakistan.
Pakistan is country which provided Nuclear Tech to Iran in return Our great Brothers handed part of it to india and Rest all to US/UN will you called this brotherhood,if have nothing to say on chabhar India uses it or Isreal i have no issue same goes to our Government EZ of Pak-china is total different but poor Indian can't get it,I never showed discrimination on basis of sect on forum.
Zia was only Person very much near to KSA and Arabs but still he choose to stay neutral in Iran-Iraq war even US wanted him to fight.Please will you tell me why is your support for Syria and Iraq too much. i appreciate Iranian support for Hizbullah until they were not involved in Syria.

 

[kollang]

India is our mortal enemy, a nation which has occupied kashmir a nation we have had 4 wars with, yet you do not think this is iran hurting Pakistani interests?

Tell me, india has involved itself with proxies to attack Pakistan, we have actively tried to block and clear them from Afghanistan. The use of Chabahar is a long way off as an effective port but what do you think Pakistan should do about iran trying to help our enemy try to get a route into Afghanistan and beyond

Trading between Iran and India only benefits the two countries involved how on earth it harms Pakistan?
Now lets assume trading with India is supposed as an act war against Pakistan.then why dont you complain against Arabs trading with India.they do it even more.China also do it.

Iran also offers brilliant tries with Pakistan.we offer them with cheap Gas.we have built a pipeline to the border.but what are we recieving in return?flowers?

 

[tsinga]

Hence my statement, Iran is not friend,and you just proved it.

BTW, it was not Pakistan that voted against Iran in IAEA, it was India, and together with your enemies US, Britain, France ,Germany.

And yet, it was India that kept trading with Iran despite the sanctions, but it was Pakistan along with US, Britain, France and others that stopped trade with Iran.

And it was Pakistan that despite signing a pipeline agreement, abandoned the project after Iran had spent millions of dollars in making half the pipeline and bringing it to the Pakistani border.

Trading between Iran and India only benefits the two countries involved how on earth it harms Pakistan?
Now lets assume trading with India is supposed as an act war against Pakistan.then why dont you complain against Arabs trading with India.they do it even more.China also do it.

Iran also offers brilliant tries with Pakistan.we offer them with cheap Gas.we have built a pipeline to the border.but what are we recieving in return?flowers?

Pakistanis don't have the guts to complain against the Arabs.

Saudis and other Arabs have been jumping to trade with India.
Saudi keen to participate in 'Make in India': Ambassador
Saudi Arabia assures India support on energy security | Business Standard News
Arab businesses want India to ease investment - Rediff.com Business

 

[hussain0216]

Trading between Iran and India only benefits the two countries involved how on earth it harms Pakistan?
Now lets assume trading with India is supposed as an act war against Pakistan.then why dont you complain against Arabs trading with India.they do it even more.China also do it.

Iran also offers brilliant tries with Pakistan.we offer them with cheap Gas.we have built a pipeline to the border.but what are we recieving in return?flowers?

This is not trade, we dont care about trade whether you do it or arabs do it

We are currently actively trying to counter india, they failed to isolate us and we have effectively tried to block their ambitions in the region


Their entry into Afghanistan has been used by them to fund groups like the TTP which have killed pakistanis

The military has now gone after those proxies and pushed india to the edge in Afghanistan

Chabahar is not so easy at the moment its just pie in sky stuff trying to take anything out of Afghanistan will be difficult for india, we will make sure of that

But why would iran help Pakistans enemy try to help its proxies in Afghanistan because indirectly that is what india will try to do if it gains a route to Afghanistan

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

I think that delusion runs rampant among Pakistanis, and bad quality of education is an epidemic.I would demolish this pathetic post of yours assertion by assertion.



This just shows illiteracy of Geography of one's own country.

Take a good look at this Map.

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As anyone with eyes could see, Wakhan corridor lies in Afghanistan. You does not share even a millimeter of Border with Tajikistan.



This assertion betrays complete lack of understanding of Economics, and the difference between cost od Sea Transport vs Surface transport.

This is something about which I have posted earlier which was deleted when this website crashed.

Distance between Shanghai and Kashghar = 5121 Km

5121 Km - Distance from Shanghai to Kashgar

Distance between Kashghar and Gwadar = 2747 Km

2747 Km - Distance from Kashgar to Gwadar


Average Trucking cost per Ton per Km in China = 5 cents.

http://www.worldbank.org/transport/transportresults/regions/eap/eap-china-output.pdf

Average Trucking cost per Ton per Km in Pakistan = 1.8 cents.

https://www.iisd.org/gsi/sites/default/files/ffs_india_irade_trucking.pdf

These cost are of 2002 and would have become 7 cents for China and 3 cents for Pakistan, just by taking inflation into account.

This is the most conservative calculation as I am not taking into account Hazard premium that nature of Terrain imposes on Pakistan (Karakoram Highway is rated world's fourth most dangerous highway World's 10 dangerous roads | CNN Travel ) and Hazard premium that China has to pay for transporting good through Takla Makan Desert , Kulum Shan mountains range, and Altai Shan mountain range.

But still let us calculate cost of transporting a Tonn of good from Shanghai to Gwadar.

Cost incurred in Chinese territory = 0.07 X 5121 = $358.47

Cost incurred in Pakistani territory = 0.03 X 2747 = $82.41

So total cost from Shanghai to Gwadar for a tonn of goods= $440.88

Now let destination port be Dubai.

Cost of Transporting Dubai to Shanghai = $625 per TEU

http://www.simic.net.cn/news_list.php?lan=en&id=368&flag=cnports&pname=shanghai&page=10

Since standard 1 TEU= 21,600 Kg : Cost of Transporting 1 Ton via sea from Dubai to Shanghai = $28.93

Twenty-foot equivalent unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Similarly cost from Karachi to Dubai for 1 TEU = $125 (rate for Gwadar are not available as port is not operational)

BusinessDubai.com - Bizneeds

Cost of Transporting 1 Ton from Karachi to Dubai = $5.787


Total cost of Shipping a Ton from Shanghai to Dubai via Gwadar = $446.67

Total cost of Shipping directly from Dubai to Shangahi = $28.93 which is 16 times less than that of Transporting via Gwadar.

Heck Total cost of Transport from Gwadar to Chinese border is more than what would be required for Transport from Dubai to Shanghai.


And this is not all. You beloved corridor passed through Khunjareb Pass which remain open only from May 1 to December 31.

Karakoram Highway

Only a fool would believe that it is a main route to anywhere. This is just a backup route for China in case Malacca strait is blocked.




Actually, You need to consult map (though that would do no good given your cartographic skills)

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China is directly connected to Central Asia. It is your country which needs either China or Afghanistan for access to Central Asia.

@OrionHunter

Dear stupid,
You forgot to take time into account in your marvelous copy paste analysis.
..thanks for telling us that Pakistani and Chinese planners were clueless while planning this corridor.