CCAV revealed j-10's radar

[Ibr0kEmYrAz0r]

ouch ...my head hurts

Slow down big boy, you've already established that I'm not too bright so please be a dear and expand on the acronym MMR and then explain your post without using fancy words like "magnetron" and "oscillator" and what not

Excuse me Sir, I accept that i have left electronics field 10 years back in university and not too good with it now but words like magnetron and oscillator are no where as fancy as you make it out to be.

...
...

At first sight, the word "magnetron" does seem coming from some science fiction films like star trek or something (or a techie forum like this).

Don't want to be like stereotyping, but the word seems to sound too geeky for the average girls? I just did a test, had some conversations with some PA/interns/receptionists downstairs, and I casually used the the word "magnetron" - had to constrain myself from using the word "oscillator" in front of them; guess what, a couple of ladies gave me some funny looks, I was sure I could see stars in their eyes!

But again, there is no crime of using google search nowadays - I remembered I used it to find this forum! Just imaging next time when people are using it to search the word "magnetron", it may lead them to here! So let the matter rest, and swiftly move on.

Back to the topic, the radar used in the pictures was just for the original J-10, which had entered the service for PLAAF for quite a few years now, not the latest development model and not something worth excited about.

A hidden thought, it may even not be the actual radar that was used on J-10, as the state media CCTV tends to piece and compile different pictures onto screen for whatever reasons. Thus earning them the nick name "CCAV" - artificial video - a new and popular and sarcastic term used after 2008 by a couple of millions of netizens back in China. That was partially why the author of this thread used the word "CCAV", it was not by mistake, but could be puzzling for people outside of China, and inside if they aren't following the latest trend of buzz words.

P.S.
Another possible explanation of the name "CCAV" indicated it may have something to do with adult stuff/languages shown back then, but that was outside of the scope of this thread.

P.P.S
Since no one pressed the thanks button, guess no one interested in the translation I did earlier, albeit not much to translate, hahah. Coffie break is over, ciao!

 

[jagjitnatt]

At first sight, the word "magnetron" does seem coming from some science fiction films like star trek or something (or a techie forum like this).

Don't want to be like stereotyping, but the word seems to sound too geeky for the average girls? I just did a test, had some conversations with some PA/interns/receptionists downstairs, and I casually used the the word "magnetron" - had to constrain myself from using the word "oscillator" in front of them; guess what, a couple of ladies gave me some funny looks, I was sure I could see stars in their eyes!

But again, there is no crime of using google search nowadays - I remembered I used it to find this forum! Just imaging next time when people are using it to search the word "magnetron", it may lead them to here! So let the matter rest, and swiftly move on.

Back to the topic, the radar used in the pictures was just for the original J-10, which had entered the service for PLAAF for quite a few years now, not the latest development model and not something worth excited about.

A hidden thought, it may even not be the actual radar that was used on J-10, as the state media CCTV tends to piece and compile different pictures onto screen for whatever reasons. Thus earning them the nick name "CCAV" - artificial video - a new and popular and sarcastic term used after 2008 by a couple of millions of netizens back in China. That was partially why the author of this thread used the word "CCAV", it was not by mistake, but could be puzzling for people outside of China, and inside if they aren't following the latest trend of buzz words.

P.S.
Another possible explanation of the name "CCAV" indicated it may have something to do with adult stuff/languages shown back then, but that was outside of the scope of this thread.

P.P.S
Since no one pressed the thanks button, guess no one interested in the translation I did earlier, albeit not much to translate, hahah. Coffie break is over, ciao!

you get my thanks dude. sorry been away.
we'll need you in future too.

 

[xuxu1457]

dont even want to know what she is talking about.............this girl in uniform is HOTTTT............

“girl”？？？She is more than 40 years eld,Auntie
Join the army 1990,
Admitted to the University:1993
So she should be more than 40

 

[Mauryan]

AM, I don't think Mauryan has a clue what he's on about, he's stolen VERBATIM the abstract from US Patent 4042922 adding some confusing gibber gabber to the end of his sentence to mask his effort.



Multi-mode radar system - US Patent 4042922 Abstract

I never knew that there will be a basic difference with the definition

I saved presenting the patent number for later use. Because in general when confronted US people calls for logic and links.

Atleast this person got me right.

Mauryan's point is that if the Chinese radar displayed in the image was an AESA, the circular 'antenna' would be comprised of TR modules, and therefore would be thicker like the Vixen and APG-77 'antenna'

As I said in other thread,It depends on other persons knowledge to get an understanding of what I said, but not my intention of educating obtuse argumenters.

 

[Mauryan]

You got that right. Google is a double-edged sword. The guy is not too smart to realize it.

I think,I am the who said to you google in other thread.If I am using it,obviously other people will use it. And here comes the gambit who fails to take his words back on PAC-2 ,declares me as dumb
Keep going.......

 

[Mauryan]

Folks...Here is the truth about what is called Multi-Mode Radar and all the talks about magnetron and oscillator, while they are important components of any radar system, the way they are presented does not explain one whit about what is an MMR and how does it function.

And here comes the radar engineer educating a bunch of folks from his ASK.com and how stuff works while manipulating other persons replies and posts according to his convinience.
My reply

A simple short reply is that an MMR uses a local oscillator referenced to a magnetron and carries other processing and related exciters,amplifiers,.......All these happens away from the antenna array

Which means......I was simply replying to the physical attributes of the radar shown in figure.And the acknowledgement to this very reply was given back in the name of pictures of both LCA MMR and one from a US manufacturer.
And all these responces were bare replies regarding the physical appreance in responce to this poster below.

This should be fun, what according to you is an "MMR"?

The point here is that the guy uses them in a way that does not explain at all what is the meaning of Multi-Mode Radar (MMR). The question...As asked by the lady...

It does depend on how one puts her question. for that you have to go through from the starting point of this thread.

I used MMR with due consideration that even an ordinary US defence enthusiast might have been familiar with the term/acronym.

ALL radars are multi-mode capable. It does not matter if the antenna is phased array or slotted. What make a radar system multi-mode capable is in the 'boxes' behind the antenna, not the antenna itself.

It does matter.
It does matter and is relevant when describing a multi-mode radar with respect to a phased array.In this sense one is highlighting the way of describing its operation.You cant simply quote my only reply,but have to do that with corresponding replies which talks about ESA .A humble request from my side would be to not chop ones posts for the sake of putting your words.

I am going to Ratheon corp and asks them to provide me an MMR (with my specifications only carrying detection,tracking ranges and no.of targets to be tracked).
Do you expect him bring me a phased array radar ,saying that boss this is also multi-mode radar so go with it?

there is a hell lot of difference when it comes to practical usage of term.And only a person familiar with company acronyms uses that way,but not the one who one goes after his 1st level Radar Engineering book which only talks that there be only 2 types of radars known as mono-static and bi-static and the world ends with ECM and will there be no counters ,blah ,blah........

 

[applesauce]

I'll do the translation for the pictures provided to put some of your minds at ease. Although what she was saying had nothing to do with technical stuff; it seemed more to do with national pride and typical CCTV-styled propaganda messages. (Need to find the original video clip to see the full picture though.)

Picture 1: It was like a child.

Picture 2: "J-10" represented our (efforts of) blood and sweat for several generations. (Name of the presenter: Wang, Xiaoyan - Wang being the surname).

Picture 3 & Picture 4: Exactly same words as picture 2. (Probably a couple of seconds after the video frame in picture 2)

The state media are very strict, it won't leak any latest tech. It is up to the viewers to figure out what those radar photos are.

just a note on the first frame, i believe she is talking about pilot Yan Feng's statement when he said that the J-7 is like a child compared to the j-10

 

[Ibr0kEmYrAz0r]

just a note on the first frame, i believe she is talking about pilot Yan Feng's statement when he said that the J-7 is like a child compared to the j-10

Cool! Thanks bro for the additional information. That seemed to be consistent to other newspaper sources reporting on that video clip.

P.S
I was merely translating according to what was on the picture though, need to get that WHOLE video downloaded sometime soon.

 

[gambit]

And here comes the radar engineer educating a bunch of folks from his ASK.com and how stuff works while manipulating other persons replies and posts according to his convinience.

Nope...Merely clearing up a lot of confusion caused by pretenders like yourself. Am willing to bet that more people understood what I explained about multi-mode radar (MMR) than they did from you.

My reply
Which means......I was simply replying to the physical attributes of the radar shown in figure.And the acknowledgement to this very reply was given back in the name of pictures of both LCA MMR and one from a US manufacturer.
And all these responces were bare replies regarding the physical appreance in responce to this poster below.

The physical attributes of the radar as you presented does not and did not explain what is MMR.

It does depend on how one puts her question. for that you have to go through from the starting point of this thread.

I used MMR with due consideration that even an ordinary US defence enthusiast might have been familiar with the term/acronym.

Right...What is MMR, regarding:

1- What does the acronym stands for.
2- How does it work.

The magnetron and the oscillator are quite common devices but not every radar is multi-mode capable. Not every radar NEED multi-mode capability. Some weather radars do not, some weather radars do. So when you brought on common devices to 'explain' what is not so common, you are deceiving people and in your case the deception is deliberate.

It does matter.
It does matter and is relevant when describing a multi-mode radar with respect to a phased array.In this sense one is highlighting the way of describing its operation.You cant simply quote my only reply,but have to do that with corresponding replies which talks about ESA .A humble request from my side would be to not chop ones posts for the sake of putting your words.

No...It does not. Because both phased and slotted are antenna types. Beam characteristics manipulations can and have been done as old as the classical concave dish type. Beam characteristics manipulations are what made possible multi-mode, or as I explain that it could be seen as pseudo-MMR.

So we have at least three directional antenna types: dish, slotted and ESA. Depending on the need, a system with an ESA antenna may not have multi-mode capability at all while another system with the older dish type may have. By bringing up antenna types to explain multi-mode switching you are deceiving the readers, and in your case the deception is deliberate because you have no clue of what you are talking about.

I am going to Ratheon corp and asks them to provide me an MMR (with my specifications only carrying detection,tracking ranges and no.of targets to be tracked).
Do you expect him bring me a phased array radar ,saying that boss this is also multi-mode radar so go with it?

No...I expect the rep to ask you what kind of antenna do you want. Given the cost of the ESA type and that the dish type is really too old for modern fighter aircrafts, he will end up giving you the typical slotted type anyway. But if the request is about beam characteristics manipulations the relevant components would be the 'boxes' that process the echo data, not the antenna.

there is a hell lot of difference when it comes to practical usage of term.And only a person familiar with company acronyms uses that way,but not the one who one goes after his 1st level Radar Engineering book which only talks that there be only 2 types of radars known as mono-static and bi-static and the world ends with ECM and will there be no counters ,blah ,blah........

This is where your ignorance and reading comprehension is truly revealing. First, you could not even explain in any reasonable manner how basic radar operations works. Second, if you did understand, then you would have known that basic radar detection is confined to two main operations: Transmit and Receive. If a system is mono- or bi-static said system is still confined to that limit but is allowed some mechanical latitudes, such as multiple antennas. Sometimes even a mono-static system can have multiple antennas. Before I challenge your nonsense, am willing to bet that you did not even heard of either mono- or bi-static configurations.

 

[gambit]

MMR = MultiMode Radar

Mauryan's point is that if the Chinese radar displayed in the image was an AESA, the circular 'antenna' would be comprised of TR modules, and therefore would be thicker like the Vixen and APG-77 'antenna'.

And it does not explain one whit of what does MMR stands for and how does it work.

Take the word 'mode' for example...

If we are talking about basic radar operation, then there are only two modes: Transmit and Receive.

If we are talking about seeker head operation and IF the seeker head has a different TYPE of sensor, such as infrared, then the word 'mode' can be interpreted as sensor type switching, from radar sensor to IR and back and forth.

If we are talking about data processing regarding radar detection, then the word 'mode' is about altering beam characteristics to perform different tasks at different times, such as air-ground or air-air or track-while-scan or volume search and so on.

The word 'mode' have even been used to denote different types of scan pattern such as conical or raster scan patterns. For example...

Conical scanning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All of the above have had the word 'pattern' substituted with the word 'mode' and while it is technically incorrect, when radar engineers talk among themselves they know when to mentally switch contexts and no one has any bones about it. But for here when the audience is largely laymen, proper terminologies and contexts are important, at the expense of longer typing if necessary.

This guy has no clue of what he is talking about, latches on to whatever Google returns, proceed to impose his own misunderstandings of those proper terminologies and contexts, and just throw up the virtual spaghetti against the forum walls, hoping something would stick and no one would challenge him. Not counting he provide no sources or even a reasonable illustration to explain a concept.

 

[Kinetic]

Looking at the antenna, it is very thin just like other pulse doppler radars. It definitely a mechanically scanned slotted wave guide pulse doppler radar. Generally an AESA is not mechanically steered, its built with non-movable parts.Though PESA's have movable parts it is still an ESA. The main difference is while there is only one active element in PESA that uses phased array modules to send and receive waves while AESA has individual active T/R modules for each phased array element thus a lot of complexity and miniaturization. So to be a PESA it need to be phased array first! Now here the radar antenna doesn't look like a phased array nor AESA.