Çay Bahçesi

[-SINAN-]

@Kaan @Sinan and others do u have any news about ebola and MS sickness from those whom come back from hajj ?? i heard some bad things

Not MS buddy, it is MERS. One guy infected in Saudi Arabistan and died. And i heared some guy being infected with ebola but it's understood that he had been infected with Malaria.... nothing to worry.

 

[Nefer]

Getting this quote from a different thread, so we don't continue that discussion there

They were expecting an exotic eastern people with imperial past who were always friends with their country(ally in ww1, friendly neutral in ww2), I'm pretty sure "Islamic values" were not in their agenda.

These workers were pretty much same as their Ottoman counterparts, what kind of secularism and liberalism do you expect from these poor peasant/worker class ? you are one of these delusionals who thinks everything was perfect in Ottoman era and everybody was honest and hardworking, there were always good and rotten apples, its have nothing with Islam, its about character.

Turkish society doesn't needs more Islamic values, its needs to learn respect and harmony, that is the main problem here, those people with "Islamic values" are currently among the ones who damage the country by their hate, intolerance and discrimination.

From the Turkish locals I hear the following happened, First the people from the European nations came, and selected people from which the government presented, which were people who had City culture and expertise they were okey with those, But later on when 1980s and stuff happend alot of Leftist people fled Turkey because, well we Turks all know why, to european nations and man What they didn't do to exploit the people.

Netherlands wasn't a ally in ww1 but was neutral and in ww2 they were captured by nazi germany

Germans on the hand were allies in ww1, but that was because of the young turks and they germans weren't thinking that great of either.

Armenian Genocide Debate Archives updated and new German Archival sources added |

Yes, officials could try to rewrite history, and sometimes they do. Sometimes they try to write history while it is happening and use propaganda to create nationalistic feelings against their enemies.

German Consul Walter Rossler however, was not very pleasant when speaking to the German government about the Turks. If you read some of his writings however, you can see that while the Germans are allied with the Ottoman Turks, not all of them think highly of the Turks.

So you can rest assured that Rossler is trying to be as accurate as possible to the German government, to make sure they are informed and make the right decisions.

After World War I, there is no reason/benefit to aid the Turks/Ottomans in any way, for Germany, so I don't think you can argue that the Germans might rewrite history to make the Ottomans look good. There's no benefit to that. And after the shame of the Nazi Holocaust, I don't think Ottoman history was really given much thought in Germany anyway.

So I think it would be logical to find the German archives pretty reliable.

Also these Leftist Turks in the Netherlands which were trying to get their sugar levels up so they could get a docters paper which declared them unfit to work and than get a loan from the government because they are socialist, and there are many different things which were done, which hurted our image, Do you honestly think Turks with Islamic values would do that.

Are you talking about the first arrivals,Turks?

Yes..

One thing from me about Turks in Germany.
75% are hardworking people who learned th language, are working or go to the University.
The other 25% is Ghetto scum and many of those cases have nothing to do with racism but with stupidity.

3 Million turks atm and 750k turks is quite a big number :/

 

[xenon54 out]

Also these Leftist Turks in the Netherlands which were trying to get their sugar levels up so they could get a docters paper which declared them unfit to work and than get a loan from the government because they are socialist, and there are many different things which were done, which hurted out image, Do you honestly think Turks with Islamic values would do that.

I have seen so many dishonest people when i was going regularly to mosque for learning islamic stuff, dont be stupid, you cant just say people with ''islamic values'' are all honest while the rest is trash, in fact it was more like the opposite from my own observation.
I know many Sunni and Alevi Turks none of these two groups are specially honest/dishonest.

 

[Targon]

@Nefer

xenon pretty much gave the answer, as I said there are good and rotten apples in every human group, it has nothing with being Islamic or not, its about one's character, we regularly see enough examples to know that.

 

[usernameless]

@Targon @T-123456 @Ahiska please continue here. @Nihonjin1051 if interested.

I think Nefer made some interesting points, but i don't agree that Dutch people were expecting highly civilized people from Turkey back then. After all, the first generation were mostly poor people invited to do the work of the lower ranks.

Coming back to today, i think Europe has its merits, but i personally feel as if the atmosphere is becoming more and more boring and troublesome, to the point where if i had the chance i would gladly emigrate elsewhere. Take the European knowledge and invest it in Turkey or become successful in order to promote Turkey wherever you live, that should be the way in my opinion. Not saying it's an easy thing that everyone can do, but there are millions of people who would like to study in the west, yet dont have the chance. We have had that chance and opportunity, so let's put it to good use, right?

 

[Ahiska]

Getting this quote from a different thread, so we don't continue that discussion there



From the Turkish locals I hear the following happened, First the people from the European nations came, and selected people from which the government presented, which were people who had City culture and expertise they were okey with those, But later on when 1980s and stuff happend alot of Leftist people fled Turkey because, well we Turks all know why, to european nations and man What they didn't do to exploit the people.

Netherlands wasn't a ally in ww1 but was neutral and in ww2 they were captured by nazi germany

Germans on the hand were allies in ww1, but that was because of the young turks and they germans weren't thinking that great of either.


Also these Leftist Turks in the Netherlands which were trying to get their sugar levels up so they could get a docters paper which declared them unfit to work and than get a loan from the government because they are socialist, and there are many different things which were done, which hurted out image, Do you honestly think Turks with Islamic values would do that.



Yes..



3 Million turks atm and 750k turks is quite a big number :/

It is quite big but when the parents are no good then most of the children will end up being the same.
Many if not most Turks here are from the poorest regions from Turkey (thats also a reason why there are so many Kurd here)
The parents cant speak German and many of them didnt care about the education of their children

 

[rmi5]

My Question for you guys is that why turkish people started to migrate to mostly to Germany, and other EU countries, than USA? From political influence point of view, having a big number of Turkish-American citizens, would have been more helpful for Turkey. Also, there is almost zero racism in USA compared to european countries. I know some basic reasons, but need some elaboration, and also want to know what you guys think was right to do at that time.

 

[Nefer]

I have seen so many dishonest people when i was going regularly to mosque for learning islamic stuff, dont be stupid, you cant just say people with ''islamic values'' are all honest while the rest is trash, in fact it was more like the opposite from my own observation.
I know many Sunni and Alevi Turks none of these two groups are specially honest/dishonest.

Values are worthless if not followed, I am talking about people with islamic values which are following it, and it were those kind of people which were the basis of the ottoman era, after ww1, we were just a shell and all the bright minds were dead because of the ww1, and the people which were left were elderly, woman , children and cowards and some people with respectable authority which were later removed by the kemalists.

And I never said the rest is trash, Peoples are to be valued individually, but we see general trends occuring with a certain group of people, yes everyone has rotten apples, but unlike some groups they are actually trying to improve which we are actually trying

My Question for you guys is that why turkish people started to migrate to mostly to Germany, and other EU countries, than USA? From political influence point of view, having a big number of Turkish-American citizens, would have been more helpful for Turkey. Also, there is almost zero racism in USA compared to european countries.

Working permits and distance, Gemany and Netherlands after ww2 they had lost a big chunk of their working population so in order to restore their industry they imported gastarbeiters from turkey ect,

 

[xenon54 out]

My Question for you guys is that why turkish people started to migrate to mostly to Germany, and other EU countries, than USA? From political influence point of view, having a big number of Turkish-American citizens, would have been more helpful for Turkey. Also, there is almost zero racism in USA compared to european countries. I know some basic reasons, but need some elaboration, and also want to know what you guys think was right to do at that time.

Main reasons are the recruitment agreement between Germany and Turkey, Goegraphical distance and Wirtschaftswunder.


Witschaftswunder (english)
Wirtschaftswunder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Recruitment agreement between Germany and Turkey (german only)
Anwerbeabkommen zwischen der Bundesrepublik Deutschland und der Türkei – Wikipedia

And I never said the rest is trash, Peoples are to be valued individually, but we see general trends occuring with a certain group of people, yes everyone has rotten apples, but unlike some groups they are actually trying to improve which we are actually trying

This is simply not true, dishonesty is a characteristics of a person, it isnt bound to a ideology.

 

[usernameless]

My Question for you guys is that why turkish people started to migrate to mostly to Germany, and other EU countries, than USA? From political influence point of view, having a big number of Turkish-American citizens, would have been more helpful for Turkey. Also, there is almost zero racism in USA compared to european countries. I know some basic reasons, but need some elaboration, and also want to know what you guys think was right to do at that time.

Certain west european countries had set up a special program to hire (which later on became full immigration when the family of workers reunited with their husband and/or father in Europe) temporary workers from several countries. For example, Netherlands first took in Spaniards and Italians, later on Turks and Moroccans replaced them in big numbers. It's not like most of these immigrants took the initiative and came here on their own, they were invited on govt to govt level and asked whether they were interested to work there or not. My father still recalls how when he was a young kid some guys came to our village and made the announcement that European countries were looking for workers and anyone interested in it could join up. old timers like @T-123456 know the story better

 

[rmi5]

@Nefer @xenon54 @usernameless
Thanks guys. I knew this. More acurately, my question was , why Turkey did not sign such agreements with USA, instead of Europe? Is it only because of geographical distance as Xenon said?
Wirtschaftswunder ... that's a hard word to read

 

[xenon54 out]

Thanks guys. I knew this. More acurately, my question was , why Turkey did not sign such agreements with USA, instead of Europe? Is it only because of geographical distance as Xenon said?

I dont know, maybe America didnt needed workforce like Europe, or Hispanic workforce was enough.

Wirtschaftswunder ... that's a hard word to read

You think this is hard? Wait till you meet German grammar.

 

[rmi5]

I dont know, maybe America didnt needed workforce like Europe, or Hispanic workforce was enough.

Maybe, BTW, unlike now, hispanics were not flooding sates at that time.

You think this is hard? Wait till you meet German grammar.

 

[xenon54 out]

How about this one?

 

[rmi5]

How about this one?

It's a mental rape.