Can India’s Kaveri engine beat reliable F404-GE-IN20 engine to Power Tejas MK-1A ??

[shree835]

Latest French offer to revive India’s nearly dead Indigenous Kaveri gas turbine engine has reignited intense debate among Indian military planners but the final call on offer is likely will be take up by Indian MOD, while many Defence analyst are not sure if Kaveri engine can be production ready before Tejas MK-1A enters production sometime in 2020.

French have offered to invest 1 Billion Euros in Kaveri combat engine project to meet offset obligation of Rafale fighter deal which India and France are currently negotiating . Proposed upgraded Kaveri engine will be a 90kN thrust class engine which will be marginally more powerful than GE supplied F404-GE-IN20 engine which is currently generating 84kN thrust .

French officials believe that Kaveri engine is nearly 70-75 % complete and within 18-24 months it can be made into a full-fledged military grade certified combat engine ready for flight tests , but many Defence Analyst speaking to idrw.org informed us that GE’s F404 engines have served LCA-Tejas program well for last 15 years , reliability of engines have ensured nearly 3000 sorties accident free which actually saved whole LCA-Tejas from being closed down due to constant delays which plagued the program .

Indian Air Force to is quite happy with GE’s F404 engines and in past praised perfect integration with Indigenous combat jet and its test Pilots too have praised its fuel management but Kaveri engine will take the time to built reliability and confidence said another Defence Analyst .

Kaveri engine has been able to generate the thrust of only 65 KN and is still overweight by around 150 kilogrammes . French have identified problems in its core which is not letting it develop sufficient thrust to power Combat jets like LCA-Tejas and GTRE too has been working independently to fix Core problem areas but it might take nearly a 5-7 years to fix problems locally feels another Defence Analyst and French offer might only help speed up the project and instead of Kaveri powering Tejas MK-1A aircraft has second engine change at a later stage, we have bright chance to power it from the first aircraft feels another Defence Analyst.

http://idrw.org/indias-kaveri-engine-beat-reliable-f404-ge-in20-engine-power-tejas-mk-1a/

 

[Stephen Cohen]

WIth French assistance Kaveri will become a 90 KN engine

That will help in both LCA mk 1A ; Mk2 and Twin engined AMCA

 

[SR-91]

Kaveri engine has been specifically designed for the demanding Indian operating environment, which ranges from hot desert to the highest mountain range in the world. The GTREs design envisions achieving a fan pressure ratio of 4:1 and an overall pressure ratio of 27:1, which it believes will permit the Tejas to SUPERCRUISE. The Kaveri is a variable-cycle, flat-rated engine and has 13% higher thrust than the GE F-404 engines equipping the LCA prototypes.

WITH Snecma's help reliability and maintainability will be much improved. They will spend a BILLION EUROS, on a engine needing only 25-30% of work involved. Success of kaveri is in interest of all involved.

 

[Beast]

Kaveri engine has been specifically designed for the demanding Indian operating environment, which ranges from hot desert to the highest mountain range in the world. The GTREs design envisions achieving a fan pressure ratio of 4:1 and an overall pressure ratio of 27:1, which it believes will permit the Tejas to SUPERCRUISE. The Kaveri is a variable-cycle, flat-rated engine and has 13% higher thrust than the GE F-404 engines equipping the LCA prototypes.

WITH Snecma's help reliability and maintainability much improved. They will spend a BILLION EUROS, on a engine needing only 25-30% of work involved. Success of kaveri is in interest of all involved.

Indian are simply over Optimistic.

 

[I M Sikander]

Kaveri engine has been specifically designed for the demanding Indian operating environment, which ranges from hot desert to the highest mountain range in the world. The GTREs design envisions achieving a fan pressure ratio of 4:1 and an overall pressure ratio of 27:1, which it believes will permit the Tejas to SUPERCRUISE. The Kaveri is a variable-cycle, flat-rated engine and has 13% higher thrust than the GE F-404 engines equipping the LCA prototypes.

WITH Snecma's help reliability and maintainability much improved. They will spend a BILLION EUROS, on a engine needing only 25-30% of work involved. Success of kaveri is in interest of all involved.

But in the end ADA and HAL scraped the whole program and got vedeshi engine for tejas.

 

[zebra7]

But in the end ADA and HAL scraped the whole program and got vedeshi engine for tejas.

Knock Knock !!! Kaveri program, is only delinked from the LCA project, but R&D and development continues, and only milestone it required is the Supersonic air flight, in a MIG-29 airframe. Afterward, the real engine based on the Kaveri Engine will be mass produced and the rated thrust of that engine would be 100KN +. Each aircraft required 2.5-3 engine replacement in its service life, and pls update me your development of a decent indigenous Car Engine.

Indian are simply over Optimistic.

Yeah Sure, that's why Kaveri was designed as per western standard of the TSL life of 6000 hours, unlike Russian/Soviet/Chinese 2000 hours TSL and flat rated in the Indian Sub conditions.

 

[Kraitcorp]

Indian are simply over Optimistic.

Well we are not as optimistic as you guys, where you guys take pride in copy paste.

 

[zebra7]

WIth French assistance Kaveri will become a 90 KN engine

That will help in both LCA mk 1A ; Mk2 and Twin engined AMCA

French assistance does not means they are going to spoon feed GTRE and give them technology, rather they will act as the consultant for the wt. reduction of Kabini Core and Kaveri Engine.

GTRE is capable of completing the Kaveri engine, what is needed is the constant budget, Metallurgical Know how, and the Industrial capability.

1. Constant Budget --- Means Govt. of India should make sure that GTRE should gets the constant budget for its development and not like waiting for 3 years after sucessful Subsonic test flight in Russia, to get passed by the buerocracy.

2. Metallurgical know how means its time now to break the earlier rules, that all the metallurgicy would be supplied by the Govt. owned company like one from the Kerela Mithani, or SAIL, rather take the help from the TATA, which too have a good metallurgical know how. Strangely TATA Steel have takeover a european company, which supplies to various european countries, which makes defence equipments from Tanks, Warships to Planes.

3. Industrial Capability, means producing an engine as a lab prototype is another thing, and then production for industrial use is different in lowest cost is different, and we are lagging. There are so many prospects of a turbo fan engine, not only for hte Military use, but for the Civilian use like regional aircraft, Naval ships etc.

3.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

But in the end ADA and HAL scraped the whole program and got vedeshi engine for tejas.

a) 200 LCA means that there are 200 to 400 engines in mid life replacements expected over 25 years, Kaveri need not
'power' LCA Mk1 but if it is ready even in 10 years it'll save billions of USD

b) 200 AMCA 10 years later means 800 to 1200 engines over the next 35 years.

Total requirement of about 1500 engines are anyways needed over the next 30+ years. Even if Kaveri gets ready in 10 years it'll be of great use to us.

Add to this 40 NLCA
Add to this about 40 LCA Trainers

 

[Genesis]

Well we are not as optimistic as you guys, where you guys take pride in copy paste.

lol, name one thing in modern military that is INVENTED by Indians I mean anything. Since you guys don't copy. The only reasons you guys don't get this designation is because you suck at even that.

This engine of yours is not an original design, Western powers have been making this of similar specs for decades now. It changes nothing in the world of aviation. Oh the fact it hasn't even been put to the test on a fighter while ours have seen at least 400 delivered and no causalities yet means you are basically insulting yourself.

Yeah Sure, that's why Kaveri was designed as per western standard of the TSL life of 6000 hours, unlike Russian/Soviet/Chinese 2000 hours TSL and flat rated in the Indian Sub conditions.

Chinese engines have been designed for far longer, problems persist, but the fact you can say your engine is designed for 6000 hours is hilarious. Considering it has not seen one hour on a fighter.

You are actually comparing an engine that doesn't work to an engine that has seen half a decade and more of service. This is worse than your LCA comparisons, at east that actually did undergo testing.

 

[zebra7]

lol, name one thing in modern military that is INVENTED by Indians I mean anything. Since you guys don't copy. The only reasons you guys don't get this designation is because you suck at even that.

This engine of yours is not an original design, Western powers have been making this of similar specs for decades now. It changes nothing in the world of aviation. Oh the fact it hasn't even been put to the test on a fighter while ours have seen at least 400 delivered and no causalities yet means you are basically insulting yourself.



Chinese engines have been designed for far longer, problems persist, but the fact you can say your engine is designed for 6000 hours is hilarious. Considering it has not seen one hour on a fighter.

You are actually comparing an engine that doesn't work to an engine that has seen half a decade and more of service. This is worse than your LCA comparisons, at east that actually did undergo testing.

Dude how do you know, by the way. Because everything feed about your so called Chinese development is State Controlled Media, and the Blogs, and that too written by the serving officers.

In URDU

Lage Raho Mamoo !!!

 

[Kraitcorp]

lol, name one thing in modern military that is INVENTED by Indians I mean anything. Since you guys don't copy. The only reasons you guys don't get this designation is because you suck at even that.

The same question back at you. name one thing in modern military that is INVENTED by Chinese?. Well look at all your military hardware even after super duper copying still no where near the original.

Either you guys are crappy or u guys suck too...

 

[Genesis]

The same question back at you. name one thing in modern military that is INVENTED by Chinese?. Well look at all your military hardware even after super duper copying still no where near the original.

Either you guys are crappy or u guys suck too...

Our suck equipment exist, yours don't. I'm sure on the sucky scale, existence trumps imaginary. Oh and we are the copy/paste state, we never claim other wise, nor do we laugh at other states for similar feats.

Now you on the other hand, can't say the same.

Dude how do you know, by the way. Because everything feed about your so called Chinese development is State Controlled Media, and the Blogs, and that too written by the serving officers.

In URDU

Lage Raho Mamoo !!!

oh good, the it's a lie argument. That's not an argument. Our engine have been photographed doing a barrel roll over a US plane, yours have been photographed on a display stand. I guess that's how we know.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Well Indians have erred badly in developing a variable cycle engine without developing a conventional jet engine. Even though we have modestly achieved a low bypass pressure ratio the Metallurgy and timing of the engine is very hard. Only GE has been successful in developing the YF 120 engine. So I think it is better to join with GE in further development of the Kaveri instead of the French.

 

[zebra7]

Well Indians have erred badly in developing a variable cycle engine without developing a conventional jet engine. Even though we have modestly achieved a low bypass pressure ratio the Metallurgy and timing of the engine is very hard. Only GE has been successful in developing the YF 120 engine. So I think it is better to join with GE in further development of the Kaveri instead of the French.

I think GE or P&W is not interested in giving any help to the GTRE, thus making another competitor, as far as Sarfan of French is concerned, the GTRE had taken consultancy help from the Scnerma for the wt. reduction process of the Kabini in the past, and French have already studdied the Kaveri engine. And why do you think French are lagging in Engine, we are talking about F-404 type of engine around 100 KN, and not heavy engines like >135 KN