Can India’s Kaveri engine beat reliable F404-GE-IN20 engine to Power Tejas MK-1A ??

[punit]

i feel the kaveri has to much bad press to it.
i think they will be a successor the it and it would be based of the m88. india would build the engine but the french would retain control of the critical tech. so it would be a like morphed version of the m88 which is in range of the f404 but india will build a lot of engine. like what the koreans are doing with the 404 for the golden eagle and the 414 for the kfx later on.
one thing i would like to make clear is that the french will never give india the ability to build engines independantly. heck the russains did not even give the tech to china so what chance does india have with france. you have to play clever. which country can build engines but is in deep sh!t?

Britania !!

 

[Blue Marlin]

Britania !!

we invented the jet engine

 

[Guynextdoor2]

i feel the kaveri has to much bad press to it.
i think they will be a successor the it and it would be based of the m88. india would build the engine but the french would retain control of the critical tech. so it would be a like morphed version of the m88 which is in range of the f404 but india will build a lot of engine. like what the koreans are doing with the 404 for the golden eagle and the 414 for the kfx later on.
one thing i would like to make clear is that the french will never give india the ability to build engines independantly. heck the russains did not even give the tech to china so what chance does india have with france. you have to play clever. which country can build engines but is in deep sh!t?

There is no issue with 'ability to build engines'. Most subsystems work perfectly fine. Key issue is heat damage to the core and the metallurgy required to perfect that.

 

[mirage]

Indian are simply over Optimistic.

and chinese always overestimate themselves and ridicule everyone else .

 

[Hamoon]

French very intelligent people they know Kaveri is a failed project and will be even after their assistance. So they want a big user of France defense equipment without having own engine if this happen why India purchase jets from outside even Russia refuses to assist Indian in Kaveri project.

and chinese always overestimate themselves and ridicule everyone else .

Like 1962 Indo China War
Date 20 October[1] – 21 November 1962
Location Aksai Chin and North-East Frontier Agency
Result Chinese victory
Territorial
changes Indian posts and patrols removed fromAksai Chin, which comes under exclusive Chinese control.

 

[punit]

we invented the jet engine

really ! it were Jerries !

 

[Beast]

and chinese always overestimate themselves and ridicule everyone else .

We achieve what we want. Not like Indian bragging here and there. Talking about over taking Shanghai and the Tejas going to dominate world air fighter market. What a load of BS!

 

[Echo_419]

Indian are simply over Optimistic.

That's a good thing

 

[Hamoon]

The DRDO's (Gas Turbine Research
Establishment) has been working on kaveri Engine since 80 ' s. The engine was built in 2005. But failed miserably in High altitude test. So at this point let's accept we just don't have the know how required to fly a light combat aircraft. We sank about 600 million dollars.

So did the government, decided to collaborate with other reputed manufacturers in 2006, now the problem is why would someone part with with such a technology used. When the government decided to import combat aircrafts (mmrca) it decided to proscribe the technologies that the vendor must part with. Which could contribute to the kaveri project.

Obviously manufacturers including rolls royce, GE, prattling and Whitney just refused.. in fact pratt and Whitney was interested in participating in the kaveri project.

Finally french snecma engines was chosen to fuel the LCA. The government chose the lowest bid supplier. But snecma was unwilling to part their engine technology after 15 years. DRDO just rejected the proposal

Finally we ended up ordering GE F414 Engines about 99 of them at 3000 crore (500 million USD).
From Quora

 

[Blue Marlin]

There is no issue with 'ability to build engines'. Most subsystems work perfectly fine. Key issue is heat damage to the core and the metallurgy required to perfect that.

exactly thats the juicy part of the engine that no country that can builds engines will share. heck if its that easy the chinese would have had jet engine ages ago. mind you they are around the corner. also its not only heat damage and the metalic compound. but the design of the combustion chambers so that they burn efficiently. we have the layout of the compresser fans and the discharge fans.
personally i say go for the m88 for the amca and build as much as you can out of it.
i find it weird that india can think it can buy the tech for an entire engine. look at japan
they started with the f3 which had plenty of problems. the program started in the late 70's lets say 78
it entered service in 1985 (note that it has no afterburner) it had problems and accidents and 5 years later it was good then a revamped version came out in 1999.

an older variant of the f3

and the ihi f3-30
with an afterburner

and the ihi xf5 to go on the x-2 5th gen fighter

now that im bringin this up its quiet clear india is trying to sprint whilst still on all 4's the japanese have done it by the book. a small (15kn-25kn) non afterburning jet engine follwed by an upgraded engine and then and afterburning engine and then make bigger engines.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

exactly thats the juicy part of the engine that no country that can builds engines will share. heck if its that easy the chinese would have had jet engine ages ago. mind you they are around the corner. also its not only heat damage and the metalic compound. but the design of the combustion chambers so that they burn efficiently. we have the layout of the compresser fans and the discharge fans.
personally i say go for the m88 for the amca and build as much as you can out of it.
i find it weird that india can think it can buy the tech for an entire engine. look at japan
they started with the f3 which had plenty of problems. the program started in the late 70's lets say 78
it entered service in 1985 (note that it has no afterburner) it had problems and accidents and 5 years later it was good then a revamped version came out in 1999.

an older variant of the f3

and the ihi f3-30
with an afterburner

and the ihi xf5 to go on the x-2 5th gen fighter

now that im bringin this up its quiet clear india is trying to sprint whilst still on all 4's the japanese have done it by the book. a small (15kn-25kn) non afterburning jet engine follwed by an upgraded engine and then and afterburning engine and then make bigger engines.

actually even if the french don't 'transfer' the tech but help design and even deliver the core chambers pre built it'll be worth going for Kaveri. The moving parts (we have crystal blade tech BTW) cost an arm and a leg to maintain. All that building and maintenance over the years with only the core maintaincence given to france will still save India billions and keep 1000s of jobs here.

 

[Agent_47]

exactly thats the juicy part of the engine that no country that can builds engines will share. heck if its that easy the chinese would have had jet engine ages ago. mind you they are around the corner. also its not only heat damage and the metalic compound. but the design of the combustion chambers so that they burn efficiently. we have the layout of the compresser fans and the discharge fans.
personally i say go for the m88 for the amca and build as much as you can out of it.
i find it weird that india can think it can buy the tech for an entire engine. look at japan
they started with the f3 which had plenty of problems. the program started in the late 70's lets say 78
it entered service in 1985 (note that it has no afterburner) it had problems and accidents and 5 years later it was good then a revamped version came out in 1999.

an older variant of the f3

and the ihi f3-30
with an afterburner

and the ihi xf5 to go on the x-2 5th gen fighter

now that im bringin this up its quiet clear india is trying to sprint whilst still on all 4's the japanese have done it by the book. a small (15kn-25kn) non afterburning jet engine follwed by an upgraded engine and then and afterburning engine and then make bigger engines.

We also started small in 60s.

HJE-2500 was the first turbojet engine designed and developed in India. The engine of 2500 lb (11.1 kN) thrust, developed by “Engine Design Bureau- EDB” of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, was one of the most prestigious, indigenous engine development activities undertaken in India in the mid 1960s. HJE-2500 was developed for basic jet trainer aircraft, HJT-16 MK 2.

 

[Blue Marlin]

We also started small in 60s.

whats the engine called?

 

[proud_indian]

HJE-2500

 

[Hamoon]

whats the engine called?

60 they build only jet and powered it with extremly underpower engine which was also imported check wikipedia Hal Marut. Jet was designed for Mac2 but only able to fly max at mach one.