Can India save itself from Pakistan Battlefield Nukes ?

[HariPrasad]

Can India save itself from Pakistani Battlefield nukes is an intensive question since we have to take multiple factors like employment of warfare and maneuvre tactics along with aggressive employment of military hardware like drones , Surface-to-Air Missiles , Satellite surveillance and more to counter these real-time threats.

Pakistan’s policy of “N-deterrence” against an Indian Conventional Attack especially when once Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq told his Indian counterpart, “If your forces cross our borders by an inch, we are going to annihilate your cities.” One of the cornerstone of Pakistan’s deterrent policy against Indian Forces is the Nasr Tactical Missile which it describes as the “low-yield battlefield deterrent”which it can use to counter Indian Armored and Mechanized Units tearing into the Pakistani soil. Pakistan believes that it can utilize Nasr to effectively counter Indian Army while its own conventional forces lagging behind India’s , both qualitatively and quantitatively can’t counter an Indian Invasion.

Tactics matter a hell lot in the art of modern warfare. Soldiers are no longer employed as cannon fodder on battlefield and smart tactics are used to outflank the enemies and destroy them. The first thing India would use to save itself from Pakistani battlefield nukes is TACTICS. The one tactic I love , which Indian Army can implement against Pakistan is “ “Hugging the Enemy” developed by Vasily Ivanovich Chuikov, Commander of the USSR’s 62nd Army as a means to bash Germans. I will describe it in words here :

“…Get close to the enemy’s positions: move on all fours, making use of craters and ruins: dig your trenches by night, camouflage them by day; make your build-up for the attack stealthy, without any noise; carry your Tommy Gun on your shoulder; take ten to twelve grenades. Timing and surprise will then be on your side. …Two of you get into the house together – you, and a grenade; both be lightly dressed – you without a knapsack, and the grenade bare; go in grenade first, you after; go through the whole house, again always with a grenade first and you after…

There is one strict rule now – give yourself elbow room! At every step danger lurks. No matter – a grenade, then on again! Another room – another grenade! A turning – another grenade! Rake it with your Tommy Gun! And get a move on! …Inside the Object of attack, the enemy may go over to a counterattack. Don’t be afraid! You have already taken the initiative; it is in your hands.

Act more ruthlessly with your grenade, your Tommy Gun, your dagger, your spade! Fighting inside a building is always frantic. So, Always be prepared for the unexpected. Look Sharp!..”

Indian Army can use this tactic to negate Pakistani nukes by inserting our divisons in densely populated Pakistani regions like Punjab. If Pakistan resorts to battlefield nukes then it would effectively endanger its own population also making Pakistan lose its status and face in international society and will create a soft spot for India. Even in that case how much damage would Pakistan had inflicted on India is quite questionable.

Indian Air Force can also play an important part if it manages to control the airspace as it can utilize its Military Satellites ( which Indian Armed Forces ) are quite heftly capitalizing upon which then can be neutralized by Pinaka Mk.2 rockets ( whose guided rockets outranges Nasr ) or Armed Helicopters and Drones ( if India acquires them ).


Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa said in 2017 against a question at the annual Air Force Day press conference on how the IAF planned to respond to Pakistan’s store of tactical nuclear weapons that ,“As far as the Air Force is concerned, it is not only with tactical nuclear weapons, but any target across the border, we have the ability to locate, fix and strike targets across the border” .

Though IAF currently lacks some necessary capabilities like JSTARS-AWACS-like platforms to differentiate real-time threats from decoys , India is advancing fast on such capabilities which will make it easy to hunt for those tactical nukes by Indian Forces. Use of SAM assets like QR-SAM and S-400 can effectively negate Nasr any advantage over Indian forces with an effective surveillance needed to be enforced to keep Indian Formations out of Nasr range.


https://defenceupdate.in/can-india-save-itself-from-pakistan-battlefield-nukes/

General Bipin Rawat has already answered this. He said that if government gives permission, Indian army can call pakistans nuclear bluff. http://www.google.co.in/amp/s/m.eco...hief-bipin-rawat/amp_articleshow/62478242.cms

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

PAD is just a liquid fuel missile, its a precursor/base for technology for PDV which is a solid fuel it will not going to be inducted rather PDV

Hmm.. I get it that’s why PDV is in development stage and it alternative of PAD system. But still in development stage.

 

[HariPrasad]

I think S400 defense system can play important role to limit the destruction before it reach far areas. S400 is game changer and with mix of multi defence layer shields such as akash missile system & others, it’s almost impossible to reach far areas . We will struggle to even destroy Delhi with such defense shields unless we get Stealth fighters & hypersonic missiles with long range radar & missiles.

S 400 can detect any stealth plane.

 

[SQ8]

S 400 can detect any stealth plane.

Its S400, not a tejas.

It can detect stealth airplanes and so can the TPS-77 and even the 1960’s radar for the Sa-3 goa.

What will really tell how actually informed you are on the subject is if you know why all of them will actually detect a stealth plane.

 

[HariPrasad]

Its S400, not a tejas.

It can detect stealth airplanes and so can the TPS-77 and even the 1960’s radar for the Sa-3 goa.

What will really tell how actually informed you are on the subject is if you know why all of them will actually detect a stealth plane.

Nice to see you agree with me.

 

[Osiris]

No need to use Nukes .. evacuate civilians from lahore and other cities and let the indian forces come in .. PA soldiers along with mujahideen in their own city are going to make these cities graveyards of indian soldiers ..

Evacuate ten million people from a city (wonder how long does it take, while Indian army will hang around waiting for Pakistan to evacuate its cities, then only start its offensive).

Btw isnt this the exact same strategy Gen Niazi used in 1971, to turn all East Pakistan cities into forts, to slow down the Indian offensive. Guess what, India army did, it bypassed all major E.Pakistani cities and straight went and surrounded Dhaka.

 

[SQ8]

Nice to see you agree with me.

I agree on any common sense post - if you rarely make one that is not my problem.

 

[randomradio]

No need to use Nukes .. evacuate civilians from lahore and other cities and let the indian forces come in .. PA soldiers along with mujahideen in their own city are going to make these cities graveyards of indian soldiers ..

If you do that, it will be highly appreciated within Indian circles. Removing civilians will mean we will destroy a large portion of the city with artillery. But we expect you to keep your civilians in the city and use them as human shields.

 

[SQ8]

Evacuate ten million people from a city (wonder how long does it take, while Indian army will hang around waiting for Pakistan to evacuate its cities, then only start its offensive).

Btw isnt this the exact same strategy Gen Niazi used in 1971, to turn all East Pakistan cities into forts, to slow down the Indian offensive. Guess what, India army did, it bypassed all major E.Pakistani cities and straight went and surrounded Dhaka.

Wrong, Niazi was supposed to use the Fort strategy but instead he actually used a permiter strategy.

The rest of it is pointless, there is no evacuation possible but as such nuclear war means the end of both countries, as much as Indian fanboys would like to sooth their egos and comfort themselves, everyone will burn.

If you do that, it will be highly appreciated within Indian circles. Removing civilians will mean we will destroy a large portion of the city with artillery. But we expect you to keep your civilians in the city and use them as human shields.

We arent Indians to endanger civilians, please keep your low grade bullcrap off this thread.

 

[SHAH07]

Evacuate ten million people from a city (wonder how long does it take, while Indian army will hang around waiting for Pakistan to evacuate its cities, then only start its offensive).

Btw isnt this the exact same strategy Gen Niazi used in 1971, to turn all East Pakistan cities into forts, to slow down the Indian offensive. Guess what, India army did, it bypassed all major E.Pakistani cities and straight went and surrounded Dhaka.

What do you think , you will be able to reach lahore in 2 hours ? .. we will have enough time to evacuate lahore ..
And if you do bypass lahore and other cities .. we can move our forces and sorround you .. you will have no way of escape .. still advantage pakistan

 

[SQ8]

What do you think , you will be able to reach lahore in 2 hours ? .. we will have enough time to evacuate lahore ..
And if you do bypass lahore and other cities .. we can move our forces and sorround you .. you will have no way of escape .. still advantage pakistan

They are still living in their fantasies of 65 fed to them via brainwashing by the current fascist government of India.
More or less north Punjab is a meat grinder for both sides with entrenchments, boggy areas and camo.
The best they can hope for is the Shakargarh salient.

The battle will be through Kashmir via rapidly moving airlift and through LoC, and the main thrust via the desert.

Mobility and firepower is what will matter and not numbers as such.

 

[Osiris]

Wrong, Niazi was supposed to use the Fort strategy but instead he actually used a permiter strategy.

The rest of it is pointless, there is no evacuation possible but as such nuclear war means the end of both countries, as much as Indian fanboys would like to sooth their egos and comfort themselves, everyone will burn.


We arent Indians to endanger civilians, please keep your low grade bullcrap off this thread.

I would like to see some proof on that, for all the books I have read on 1971 war, including Gen JFR Jacob's autobiography, mentions forts strategy was in place in E.Pakistan.

Secondly, it is very sweeping statement, that both countries will be destroyed. Would you say the same were India and China were to engage in a nuclear war.

Both India and Pakistan have almost equal number of nuclear weapons, with India leading in total yield of the weapons, due to significant number thermonuclear weapons.

Where as India 4 times as big in area and 6 times as big in population, India has deployed active defenses to bring down any ballistic missile fired by Pakistan, where as Pakistan has no such defence.

So, how can level of destruction in both countries be the same?

 

[SQ8]

I would like to see some proof on that, for all the books I have read on 1971 war, including Gen JFR Jacob's autobiography, mentions forts strategy was in place in E.Pakistan.

Secondly, it is very sweeping statement, that both countries will be destroyed. Would you say the same were India and China were to engage in a nuclear war.

Both India and Pakistan have almost equal number of nuclear weapons, with India leading in total yield of the weapons, due to significant number thermonuclear weapons.

Where as India 4 times as big in area and 6 times as big in population, India has deployed active defenses to bring down any ballistic missile fired by Pakistan, where as Pakistan has no such defence.

So, how can level of destruction in both countries be the same?

General Jacob is one side, suggest you read more into the books on 71. Had forts defence been followed through properly then Dhaka would not have been given up that easily.
It was the indecisiveness of Niazi or rather his preoccupation with orgies that led to neither permitter or fort strategy getting any general direction.

As for the assertion that somehow bmd’s will ensure the safety of Indian cities from any weapon(about 200+of them) I find you are too immature both in knowledge of the weapon systems and in thought process to continue this discussion further. Lets agree to disagree.

 

[ranadd]

As for the assertion that somehow bmd’s will ensure the safety of Indian cities from any weapon(about 200+of them) I find you are too immature both in knowledge of the weapon systems and in thought process to continue this discussion further. Lets agree to disagree.

He did not say Indian cities will be spared. He pointed out few facts why the destruction will not be same. One will take the hit worse than the other. Dial down and reply if you want, else agree to disagree.

 

[Osiris]

What do you think , you will be able to reach lahore in 2 hours ? .. we will have enough time to evacuate lahore ..
And if you do bypass lahore and other cities .. we can move our forces and sorround you .. you will have no way of escape .. still advantage pakistan

You fail to understand, how cold start works. There will be no majors thrusts to cut up, Pakistan into two.
There will be half a dozen small thrust by IBGs all along the IB and LOC, to capture 30 - 40 km of enemy territory each, and then offensive will stop.
Pivots corps will cross into Pakistan to protect the flanks of IBGs from counter attacks.