Can Agni-5 be MIRV?

[shaheenmissile]

@shaheenmissile
i dont think anyone is criticizing anyone. You see,the world goes by "published literature" and IPs(intellectual property- patents).So unless you dont have it ,no one will take you seriously. And yes china too files a monstrously large number of patents in defense! i mean just look at IEEE and you'd find so many chinese papers coming in the field as different and varied as optimal control to ECCM!

Now that you mentioned IEEE,try to look at Pakistani papers published there. Plenty available.

 

[Bratva]

You keep everything under wraps and want to get appreciated ?
I am pretty sure he would more than love to know and boast R & D , if information is available .

5 years ago, If I told you NSA can do this and that which snowden told, Would you have believed ?

@Bratva
Dear bratva since when did IEEE,AIAA and creation of IP become DRDO yardstick?i mean seriously?
PS- just in case you dont know,i deal with a lot of papers in aerospace that get published in AIAA- from countries like china! so please! do read more!

Comeup with a better excuse next time. While NSA has a blanket ban on publishing any work in magazines. If you are not seeing any Pakistan work. It is simple as that. Organizations have put a similar ban on researchers here as well.

 

[sathya]

5 years ago, If I told you NSA can do this and that which snowden told, Would you have believed ?

I am also saying the same thing, because you keep everything secret,
How can some one even boast ? Other than saying " miracle "

You can only be proud, that there is a secret without knowing what's that.

 

[amardeep mishra]

Now that you mentioned IEEE,try to look at Pakistani papers published there. Plenty available.

Indeed there are a lot of pakistani papers available but their number in comparison to lets say indian or chinese authors is abysmally small.Obviously there is a huge difference between the academic/industrial research in pakistan vis-a-vis india/china so such a comparison is futile.A more interesting question would be-
what is the number of papers that have practical implication on systems that are being designed in pakistan? Thirdly i would like to comment that IP(intellectual property-PATENTS) are perhaps more relevant to industries than simple papers.Still to this day 90% of the IPs in aerospace sector are created in west! -not in india or china!
When you are developing a "bigger" system- for instance a missile or an aircraft - then you'd have to either
(a) buy off the shelf sensors/actuators for which patents have already been filed in west provided that sensor or actuator is available to you(this also includes LICSENCE MANUFACTURING)
(b) if #a isnt available then you'd have to design your own!
PS- sensors/actuators is just an example -it might very well could have been anything ranging from gas turbine engines,active vibration control systems,composite laying klins,seekers etc etc

Comeup with a better excuse next time.

Why would i come up with an excuse my friend?you see,excuse is for the folks who are less educated and perhaps lack the understanding. I wasnt even talking about NSA- if you read carefully i said AIAA and IEEE- both of which are highly academic. I am sure these two are very famous in pakistan as well?

 

[Bratva]

I am also saying the same thing, because you keep everything secret,
How can some one even boast ? Other than saying " miracle "

You can only be proud, that there is a secret without knowing what's that.

Just like that. Take the example of this person

Q: With your math, computer and language background, you sound like a prime candidate for a CIA recruiter.

A: Right after the movie "Good Will Hunting" came out (including a scene of math whiz Matt Damon talking to a NSA recruiter), I met with the main recruiter for the NSA at MIT. He talked about how his role as an NSA recruiter was portrayed in the film. I was interested in the math the NSA had that no one knew anything about. But you were not allowed to talk about what you did. The NSA did send me the background check package, but I never filled it out.

Q&A: Elastica CTO Zulfikar Ramzan, on Heartbleed and online security - San Jose Mercury News

Why would i come up with an excuse my friend?you see,excuse if for the folks who are less educated and perhaps lack the understanding. I wasnt even talking about NSA- if you read carefully i said AIAA and IEEE- both of which are highly academic. I am sure these two are very famous in pakistan as well?

Dont twist your argument and jump up here and there. The point was Pakistani Missile organizations doesnt publish there research Gave you an example of how things are done at NSA as an example. So next time if you want to debate us Pakistanis on the subject of how miracles in Pakistani missile industry happen. Dont harp about pakistan doesnot has this and that research and industrial base and I dont see x amount of research papers on x y z subjects so Pakistan can not pull this off. Keep that in Mind about NSA example of above person

 

[The Deterrent]

@The Deterrent
My friend,in rest of the world things take place in perhaps very different manner! Researches do get published in top notch journals and industry take part in the R&D.However what you are trying to allude here is that "miracle" is the norm in pakistan and that things "get created" by a miracle?Well ,how shady can it get my friend?how shady?

Did we publish any thing when we made nukes, BMs, CMs?
I have repeatedly told you to drop this idea of expecting papers, that we get things done by any means possible, but you just don't understand it.

Thats where i have a problem with you and many others on this forum. Try to praise Pakistani technology sometime for a change,which none of you ever do,only criticize.

I never criticize our technology, I merely state the truth and factual shortcomings.
About praising, As @Oscar once mentioned, our project management and the way we deploy the needful into service overcomes everything. On the other hand Indians develop advanced technology but its deployment is too slow or has shortcomings. For example, just take a look at Pakistani TELs & Indian TELs. Pakistan ones are all-terrain and more survivable, and this fact actually matters.

@The Deterrent
They infact tested the TCT-5(the name of the launching system) TWICE before with dummy payload- ejection test before actually launching A-5. As many as 10 patents were also filed for the development of TCT-5 system(yes! it is a system). I know of a friend who worked on this one.The close up pic of TCT-5 launcher is just amazing

I know about the TCT-5 and its tests, I was referring to the launch of the Agni-V vehicle itself, which I believe was for the first time from a canister in a cold launch configuration.

Has China tested a MIRV? If not, then we can all lay easy on Pakistani MIRV's for now.

Too bad you can't lay easy.

You see,the world goes by "published literature" and IPs(intellectual property- patents).So unless you dont have it ,no one will take you seriously.

Guess what, the Indian military takes Pakistani capabilities very seriously and doesn't relies on "Published Literature & IPs" for confirmation. Deterrence is what is required, not papers.

 

[shaheenmissile]

Side by side Picture of Pakistan's latest Shaheen-3 Missile and older Shaheen-2 missile.
The Shaheen-3 has longer range compared to Shaheen-2 but it has exactly the same dimensions as Shaheen-2. This Indicates that Pakistan has developed a better propellant and Rocket motor which provides more thrust in same amount of fuel.
Also that Shaheen-3 is backwards compatible with Shaeen-2 Launchers.
This thought behind developing Shaheen-3,to keep it compatible with Existing Transporter launchers of Shaheen-2 is cost effective and time saving as to Deploy Shaheen-3,Pakistan will not have to build or acquire new vehicles,TELs (Transporter Erecter Launcher) and the existing old vehicles will be able to carry around and fire the new Shaheen-3.

 

[desimorty]

Thats where i have a problem with you and many others on this forum. Try to praise Pakistani technology sometime for a change,which none of you ever do,only criticize.

Source: Can Agni-5 be MIRV? | Page 3

Thats because your not realistic about what Pakistan actually has achieved when it comes to nuclear deterrence. True we'll never know the exact extent but i'll be damned if Pakistan with its limited resources and lack of heavy payload launchers can build a missile head to toe and claim it to better than India's. The reason for the lack of transperancy from Pakistan on this regard is because a lot of the missile technology is purchased off the shelf from China or NK which has been the missile plan from the 70s!
It doesn't matter that pakistan doesn't built the missile inhouse. Does Britain? or France? Pretty sure they all use foreign parts from America. The idea is to already have the delivery platform. Regardless of where the guns made, Pakistan has a gun and the Indians have noticed. Although the Indians do not see Pakistan as the only threat even with China. India's doctrine is cover the entire world with its nuclear umbrella because of threats posed from America, Britain or China.
Pakistan will never be India's equal. Nore should it even try because it would be colossal waste.

 

[shaheenmissile]

Agni-4 seems to be using exactly the same warhead as agni-5. Both have a warhead diameter of 110 cm

 

[amardeep mishra]

A: Right after the movie "Good Will Hunting" came out (including a scene of math whiz Matt Damon talking to a NSA recruiter), I met with the main recruiter for the NSA at MIT. He talked about how his role as an NSA recruiter was portrayed in the film. I was interested in the math the NSA had that no one knew anything about. But you were not allowed to talk about what you did. The NSA did send me the background check package, but I never filled it out.

@Bratva
If you read your own link properly then it clearly says that this tanzanian gentlemen filed as many as 40(?) patents! SO i guess this guy takes IP very seriously!
Secondly i am NOT jumping here and there my friend ,you constantly fail to realize that a lot of papers/patents do get published/filed in notable journals like AIAA with immense military potential! your argument stems from the "assumption" that since NSA doesnt file- it means pakistani industry will follow the suit!
What exactly do you know about research my dear friend,shall i ask?

Take HAL for example. Only when it started its own research into ALH and follow-on systems, did the number of patents they file yearly shot up drastically. Before that, they were assembling MiGs from Russian intellectual property. BARC and other DAE organisations regularly publish and file for patents, even when most of their work is highly classified. The researchers of NSA of the US are one of the most prolific publishers in computer science and math journals and also in the US patent office.

100% correct! HAL used to be a white elephant doing nothing more than screw driver tech back till at least 90s! things started changing rapidly by early-mid 2000s when govt at that time took creation of IP very seriously and thats when the patent footprint of HAL shot up! now HAL files close to 800 patents annually and this is INCREASING!
Now one would ask how do indians know of the performance of HAL?their research footprint etc?- well unlike pakistan CAG regularly thrashes various organizations for their performance and regular audit checks reveal the true picture. and thats how we know the performance of HAL pre-2000 era and now! I dont think there is even a comptroller auditer general that audits various pakistani military DPSUs or labs in pakistan

This Indicates that Pakistan has developed a better propellant and Rocket motor which provides more thrust in same amount of fuel.

@shaheenmissile
Hi dear you mean higher Isp fuel? the solid fuel has two components as you are aware of,
1)the oxidizer NH4ClO4(ammonium perchlorate) although RDX and HMX have also been reported to be used in american trident d5
2)and the fuel HTBP that also acts as binder.
The trick to increase Isp is to replace perchlorate with more explosive mixtures such as HMX etc but that leads to itz own problems of instability either combustion or acoustic.
Now coming to the question of increased range of shaheen-3,since there aint any structural modifications in the missile,i guess they would have
1)either reduced the weight of missile by replacing maraging steel with composites- this option is highly unlikely given the amount of research required in composites and requirement of sophisticated winding machines
2)second option could be they would have tweaked the propellant by substituting perchlorate with something else or by adding powdered aluminium

 

[shaheenmissile]

@shaheenmissile
Hi dear you mean higher Isp fuel? the solid fuel has two components as you are aware of,
1)the oxidizer NH4ClO4(ammonium perchlorate) although RDX and HMX have also been reported to be used in american trident d5
2)and the fuel HTBP that also acts as binder.
The trick to increase Isp is to replace perchlorate with more explosive mixtures such as HMX etc but that leads to itz own problems of instability either combustion or acoustic.
Now coming to the question of increased range of shaheen-3,since there aint any structural modifications in the missile,i guess they would have
1)either reduced the weight of missile by replacing maraging steel with composites- this option is highly unlikely given the amount of research required in composites and requirement of sophisticated winding machines
2)second option could be they would have tweaked the propellant by substituting perchlorate with something else or by adding powdered aluminium

There seems to be some sort of structural modification. For example the Cable runner on Shaheen 3 is much sleeker than it is on shaheen 2. The black lines on the side of the missile.

 

[amardeep mishra]

For example, just take a look at Pakistani TELs & Indian TELs.

@The Deterrent
Pakistani TEL?isnt the TEL based on chinese WS2400 or russian MAZ-543? Indian TELs on the other hand use either TATRA/TATA/AL and for A-4/A5 the benz as platform and indigenous launching system- TCT-5(canisterized)
Pakistani TEL's

 

[shaheenmissile]

@The Deterrent
Pakistani TEL?isnt the TEL based on chinese WS2400 or russian MAZ-543? Indian TELs on the other hand use either TATRA/TATA/AL and for A-4/A5 the benz as platform and indigenous launching system- TCT-5(canisterized)

Yes TATA has bough the franchise of Leyland trucks and some others too. That does not mean it is 100% their product.
The picture above i poster are both Ashok Leyland trucks towing Indian Missiles

 

[amardeep mishra]

Yes TATA has bough the franchise of Leyland trucks and some others too. That does not mean it is 100% their product.
The picture above i poster are both Ashok Leyland trucks towing Indian Missiles

@shaheenmissile
You are mistaken here my friend,the picture you posted are the ones towed by benz and neither AL nor tata. even the TCT-5 is based on benz(manufactured in india).
Now coming to the question of tata- you see,they have bought companies like Jaguar,land rover and daewoo. and hence all the IPRs now naturally belongs to tata here. Secondly their own patent footprint has drastically increased over the years! you should pay a visit to their research facility in pune- that files close to 600 patents annually(higher than entire patents filed in pakistan).
here is a report on patent footprint of TATA that now files close to 2000 patents annually yes 2000! They are in fact planning to increase their patent footprint to 4000 in just 3 years
Tata Group to double patent base in three years to 4,000 - timesofindia-economictimes

Here is a report on tata steel -note 75 patents were filed by tata steel alone!
http://www.tatasteel.com/investors/annual-report-2014-15/annual-report-2014-15.pdf

Thirdly ashok leyland is another indian company that is no way related to tata infact both of them are competitors in a lot of segments ranging from small to heavy trucks. ashok leyland is a company of hinduja group
Ashok Leyland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
their relationship with leyland ended somwhere in 70s and 80s and since then ashok leyland is pretty much an independent company by itself. Kindly read more about them to clear your misconceptions

 

[shaheenmissile]

@shaheenmissile
You are mistaken here my friend,the picture you posted are the ones towed by benz and neither AL nor tata. even the TCT-5 is based on benz(manufactured in india).
Now coming to the question of tata- you see,they have bought companies like Jaguar,land rover and daewoo. and hence all the IPRs now naturally belongs to tata here. Secondly their own patent footprint has drastically increased over the years! you should pay a visit to their research facility in pune- that files close to 600 patents annually(higher than entire patents filed in pakistan).
here is a report on patent footprint of TATA that now files close to 2000 patents annually yes 2000! They are in fact planning to increase their patent footprint to 4000 in just 3 years
Tata Group to double patent base in three years to 4,000 - timesofindia-economictimes

Here is a report on tata steel -note 75 patents were filed by tata steel alone!
http://www.tatasteel.com/investors/annual-report-2014-15/annual-report-2014-15.pdf

Thirdly ashok leyland is another indian company that is no way related to tata infact both of them are competitors in a lot of segments ranging from small to heavy trucks. ashok leyland is a company of hinduja group
Ashok Leyland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
their relationship with leyland ended somwhere in 70s and 80s and since then ashok leyland is pretty much an independent company by itself. Kindly read more about them to clear your misconceptions

Yes sure TATA is big in many businesses. But we have yet to se a single picture of TATA's indigenous Missile TEL

For example this Agni-4 is being paraded on a Volvo truck towing a super long TEL . This configuration is hardly all terrain and certainly needs paved roads.