Cairo Arab-Israel war museum.(free trip)

[MadDog]

@ SilentNinja

Amazing my friend, well now i doubt that 500 will be able to come up with facts to challenge you.

 

[DADU]

We fought .. we won .. we got back sinai ..

You fought... You lost... And you sued for peace!...

Israel was asking for direct negotiations, but Egypt refused.

No matter if Muslim, Jew or Sikh
Any one defending their land courageously deserves an applaud.
My Respect and Salute to the brave Israeli defenders of the 1973 Arab-Israel war.

Peace

 

[500]

SilentNinja, I was wrong about Dror (I checked planes shot down over Jordan). It was deep striking mission in Iraq. Israeli jets were loaded with fuel and therefore could not maneuver well. Iraqis got prior warning from Syrians and scrambled all their Hunters into the air surprising the Israelis. Israelis were also met with strong air defence fire. So basically it was like shootng fish in barrel for Iraqis. Nevertheless Israelis managed to shot down two Hunters, losing two Vautour bombers and one Mirage.

As for 1973 F-4 and 1974 Mirage claims these are pure inventions. There was not pilot called Lutz.

They were encircled

Stop hallucinating. Only one was awas enircled is 3rd Egyptian army.

and the had a plan called "Shamel" to desteroy all the Israeli forces that crossed the canal.

All Egyptian attacks against the Israeli armor miserably failed. I repeat, not just failed, but failed MISERABLY. Also after the war Israel got large numbers of TOW missiles. Attacking 3 armor divisions stregnthened with TOW would be a pure suicide for Egyptians nothing else.

After the cease fire, Egypt recieved a lot of Arabic forces, and a lot of help from the Soviet union, just like the help you guys recieved from the US, only diff. you guys recieved during the war, and we recieved it after the cease fire.

SOviet airlift to Arabs started on 10 October, US airlift to Israel - on 14 October

Nasser was long dead in 1973, it was Sadat, and he ACCEPTED the cease fire when you guys crossed the Canal,

Saddat rejected case fire on 12 Oct, but after Israeli crossing he started to beg for it.

you guys asked for the cease fire

No we did not. We were at large.

and yes you guys went for 2 days after the cease fire and that is how you encircled the 3rd army

We managed to do it despite the lack of air support.

So, Since cease fire was imposed, and the 3rd army did not surrender, what did you guys gain ? Why enen mention it then ?

I already mentioned Israeli gains two times. If not the superpower intervention our gains would be much bigger of course.

And Egypt had a lot of gains too

Egyptian gains were done in first two days.

Then You guys crossed the canal, the Sam's withdrew back and were still effective

They wree destroyed and captured.

not saying that any weren't destroyed but very limited number, that is why your airforce didn't support your ground force, or supported it in a very limited way.

Support was excellent before 22. But then because of imposed cease fire support droped.

I gave you a video of your prime minster saying that they won't give Sinai back, that is why we didn't want any direct negotiations, why would we if you stole our land and won't give it back ?

You claimed that Israel refused to negotiate. I proved that truth is the opposite: that Israel wanted direct negotiations while Egypt refused. As for ur video, Israel would not give Sinai without direct peace agreement and recognition of Israel.

By the way, we captured Sinai in defensive war. You got Sinai as present from UK. So stop talking about stealing.

The 1973 war is the reason you guys decided to give Sinai back

Nonsense. Nothing changed in Israeli position in 1973.

 

[Amir_Pharaoh]

You fought... You lost... And you sued for peace!...

No matter if Muslim, Jew or Sikh
Any one defending their land courageously deserves an applaud.
My Respect and Salute to the brave Israeli defenders of the 1973 Arab-Israel war.

Peace

Fought and lost .. ?!
Sued for peace .. ?!
Israel was the defender side in 1973 war .. ?!
Their land .. ?!

seem tht many fool pple believed israeli propaganda..

Stop hallucinating. Only one was awas enircled is 3rd Egyptian army......................

And what you did after encircled the 3rd army .. ?!
the aim of israeli attacks in west bank .. was to capture tow big cities .. Ismailia .. Suez ..
the 2nd army showed you hell .. artillery and elite forces .. REMEMBER the battle of the chinese farm .. both sides suffered heavy casualties .. but at the end the plan failed .. only your armor and paratroopers succeeded to enter Suez in an attempt to capture the town, but they were confronted by Egyptian soldiers and hastily raised local militia forces. They were surrounded, but towards night the Israeli forces managed to extricate themselves. The Israelis had lost at least 80 killed and 120 wounded 40 tanks destroyed, for no tactical gain .

Isreal needed a few more days - according to your Chief of Staff, David Elazar - to make the Egyptian Third Army surrender and cut off the Second Army .

Capturing two important cities like Ismailia and suez and make the 3rd army to surrender ... etc is nothing but more time .. !!

Like that was an easy thing to do.. !
The massive 2nd army .. 3rd army (never surrendered - never stopped fighting) .. Egyptian army reserve .. the Presidential Guards Forces ...

And don't compare between the US aids and the Soviet's .. !

In operation Nickel Grass you obtained more than 22,325 tons of tanks, artillery, ammunition
only 6,000 tons went to Egypt from Soviets ! .. mainly supplies were sent to Syria .

Finally .. saying that "Nothing changed in Israeli position in 1973" is Nothing But Crap .
you are taking like a war never happened .. or we did nothing in this war .. !!
And what do you mean by "we captured Sinai in defensive war" "You got Sinai as present from UK"

Typical zionists .. steal as long as they can .. !

 

[Amir_Pharaoh]

Moderators ...
plz rename the thread .. Egyptian war .. not Cairo's ..!!

 

[agentny17]

SilentNinja, I was wrong about Dror (I checked planes shot down over Jordan). It was deep striking mission in Iraq. Israeli jets were loaded with fuel and therefore could not maneuver well. Iraqis got prior warning from Syrians and scrambled all their Hunters into the air surprising the Israelis. Israelis were also met with strong air defence fire. So basically it was like shootng fish in barrel for Iraqis. Nevertheless Israelis managed to shot down two Hunters, losing two Vautour bombers and one Mirage.

As for 1973 F-4 and 1974 Mirage claims these are pure inventions. There was not pilot called Lutz.


Stop hallucinating. Only one was awas enircled is 3rd Egyptian army.


All Egyptian attacks against the Israeli armor miserably failed. I repeat, not just failed, but failed MISERABLY. Also after the war Israel got large numbers of TOW missiles. Attacking 3 armor divisions stregnthened with TOW would be a pure suicide for Egyptians nothing else.


SOviet airlift to Arabs started on 10 October, US airlift to Israel - on 14 October


Saddat rejected case fire on 12 Oct, but after Israeli crossing he started to beg for it.


No we did not. We were at large.


We managed to do it despite the lack of air support.


I already mentioned Israeli gains two times. If not the superpower intervention our gains would be much bigger of course.


Egyptian gains were done in first two days.


They wree destroyed and captured.


Support was excellent before 22. But then because of imposed cease fire support droped.


You claimed that Israel refused to negotiate. I proved that truth is the opposite: that Israel wanted direct negotiations while Egypt refused. As for ur video, Israel would not give Sinai without direct peace agreement and recognition of Israel.

By the way, we captured Sinai in defensive war. You got Sinai as present from UK. So stop talking about stealing.


Nonsense. Nothing changed in Israeli position in 1973.

We are going in a close circle, you keep saying the same stuff, and i keep responding the same stuff, just believe in what you believe in, and i will believe in what i believe in.

As for you guys wanted to negotiate, but we didn't want to, i will let the other members judge on that, i showed you a video of your prime minster SAYING that they won't give Sinai back before the war, they won't give back, PERIOD!! That magically changed after the 1973 war because of ????

No you didn't caputure Sinai in a defensive war, you guys started the war, not sure why you claiming that or even bring this up, defensive war, come one now ?

As for the present from the UK, i think everybody knows who got the present, and who was promised the land in Palastine, and most important everybody knows Egypt's border since your God spoke to you, even before that.... I am sure you guys got some Maps from your time when you were slaved in Egypt that shows Egypts borders back then which actually didn't change till right now. I recall reading somewhere that you guys stole a lot of Gold from your MASTERS when you left Egypt, so i am assuming you stole some Maps, and other stuff too. Check them and see if it has to do anything with the UK.

Nonsense, alot have changed, Egypt occupied 15km deep into Siani, across the Canal. Then, an Agreement stated that negotiation should start and both countrues should work on a peace process, which include Israeli WITHDRAWING from the rest of the occupied land. Everything is an advantage to Egypt in my mind. Even the Peace process that took place in 1979is not just beneficial to you, but to Egypt too.

---------- Post added at 12:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------

You fought... You lost... And you sued for peace!...





No matter if Muslim, Jew or Sikh
Any one defending their land courageously deserves an applaud.
My Respect and Salute to the brave Israeli defenders of the 1973 Arab-Israel war.

Peace

She is so proud of you.

 

[Desert Fox]

SilentNinja, I was wrong about Dror (I checked planes shot down over Jordan). It was deep striking mission in Iraq. Israeli jets were loaded with fuel and therefore could not maneuver well. Iraqis got prior warning from Syrians and scrambled all their Hunters into the air surprising the Israelis. Israelis were also met with strong air defence fire. So basically it was like shootng fish in barrel for Iraqis. Nevertheless Israelis managed to shot down two Hunters, losing two Vautour bombers and one Mirage.

It was a war, war isn't supposed to be fair, i can same the same thing to you that it was "like shooting fish in a barrel" for the IDF/AF when they launched their preemptive strikes on Egyptian bases in the start of the 1967 war basically knocking most of the EAF right on the ground without even giving it a chance to fight back. When you go into hostile territory you go there knowing well all the dangers you will face and i highly doubt the IDF/AF was not prepared when it went to strike targets in Iraq.

As for 1973 F-4 and 1974 Mirage claims these are pure inventions. There was not pilot called Lutz.

Are you sure these are "pure inventions"? The PAF Pilot Flt Lt Sattar Alvi who shot down the MirageIIICJ was a part of the group of Pakistani pilots who were deputed to Syria in 1973, this also included the well known Pakistani pilot (who later become Air Marshal) Nur Khan who was also mentioned in the book of former Israeli president Ezer Weizman On Eagles' Wings: The Personal Story of the Leading Commander of the Israeli Air Force (1975)

Nur Khan was also part of the Pakistani contingent that clashed with the Israeli Air Force during the Six Day War. In fact, the President of Israel, Ezer Weizman, who was also the Commander of the Israeli Air Force and the Minister of Defense of Israel, wrote in his autobiography that: "He (Nur Khan) was a formidable fellow and I was glad that he was Pakistani and not Egyptian".[1]

You can use this information to confirm for yourself if you have connections in the IDF/AF:

Date of encounter: 26th April 1974

PAF pilot: Flt Lt Sattar Alvi
Aircraft: SaAF MiG-21F-13
Unit/Serial No.: No 67 Squadron
Base: Dumayr Air base, Syria

Victim
IDF/AF pilot: Captain M Lutz
Aircraft: MirageIIICJ (on reconnaissance mission)
Unit/Serial No.: No 5 Air Wing
Base: Hatzor Airbase

Other IDF/AF Aircraft involved: Two F-4E's and another MirageIIICJ (besides that of Captain Lutz's, and also on recon.)
Mission: To escort the Mirages and intercept enemy aircraft
Unit/Serial No. of F-4E's: No 1 Air Wing
Base: Ramat David Air Base

 

[500]

It was a war, war isn't supposed to be fair, i can same the same thing to you that it was "like shooting fish in a barrel" for the IDF/AF when they launched their preemptive strikes on Egyptian bases in the start of the 1967 war basically knocking most of the EAF right on the ground without even giving it a chance to fight back. When you go into hostile territory you go there knowing well all the dangers you will face and i highly doubt the IDF/AF was not prepared when it went to strike targets in Iraq.

Long strike missions are always a gamble, because loaded with fuel and bombs planes are vulnerable. If Israeli jets were detected on route to airfields in the beginning of 1967, that would be a slaughter for Israelis and not for the Egyptians.

Are you sure these are "pure inventions"?

Yep I am sure. Israel did not lose jets on that day and there was no pilot Lutz in IAF.

We are going in a close circle, you keep saying the same stuff, and i keep responding the same stuff, just believe in what you believe in, and i will believe in what i believe in.

well what I am saying is basedn books, even your own chief of staff Shazly admits that. What you say are inventions.

As for you guys wanted to negotiate, but we didn't want to, i will let the other members judge on that, i showed you a video of your prime minster SAYING that they won't give Sinai back before the war, they won't give back, PERIOD!!

You did not show that.

That magically changed after the 1973 war because of ????

Nothing changed. Israel always wanted negotiatins witout preconditions. In fact prime minister Begin was much more radical than pre war Golda.

No you didn't caputure Sinai in a defensive war, you guys started the war, not sure why you claiming that or even bring this up, defensive war, come one now ?

Sea blockade is considered an act of aggression by UN.

As for the present from the UK

U got Sinai as present from UK. They captured it from Ottomans.

Nonsense, alot have changed, Egypt occupied 15km deep into Siani, across the Canal. Then, an Agreement stated that negotiation should start and both countrues should work on a peace process, which include Israeli WITHDRAWING from the rest of the occupied land.

No there was not ay such statement. Direct talks without preconditions as Israel demanded.

Similar agreemen was made with Syrians. Israel retreatd from territories captured in 1973 and even some 1967 for UN buffer zone. But Syria refused to direct talks without preconditions.

 

[DADU]

Fought and lost .. ?!
Sued for peace .. ?!
Israel was the defender side in 1973 war .. ?!
Their land .. ?!

seem tht many fool pple believed israeli propaganda..

"If you gonna play fire with fire then at least have a bucket of water to put out the fire".

Israel knows war and peace, you could have done the same thing captured Israeli territory in 1973 and sued for peace for returning the captured land back.

But as usual the land hungry Arabs don’t plan ahead.

You Arabs should learn from professionals (including Israelis), in how to fight and end a war!!!


And before you say Egyptians are not Arabs, you're right you only call yourselves Arabs when it suits you and if you suffer humiliation then oh we are Egyptians not Arabs…

---------- Post added at 12:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------

She is so proud of you.

I don’t need any1 to drum me up..

I don’t like German policies in ww2 but I still admire their blitzkrieg strategy with all its pros and cons.

It was a similar scenario between Israel and Pakistan in that they faced superior numbers vs quality that still with thousands of Arabs and Indians they could not destroy both countries.

Well done to Israel for defending their land from Arab aggressors in 1973 october war….

Israeli propaganda????? You should listen to 1 of your own and stop trying to falsify history.

Only relevant part of the video is at 4:07 to 4:38…. ( Watch carefully)

PEACE!!!

 

[agentny17]

Long strike missions are always a gamble, because loaded with fuel and bombs planes are vulnerable. If Israeli jets were detected on route to airfields in the beginning of 1967, that would be a slaughter for Israelis and not for the Egyptians.


Yep I am sure. Israel did not lose jets on that day and there was no pilot Lutz in IAF.


well what I am saying is basedn books, even your own chief of staff Shazly admits that. What you say are inventions.


You did not show that.


Nothing changed. Israel always wanted negotiatins witout preconditions. In fact prime minister Begin was much more radical than pre war Golda.


Sea blockade is considered an act of aggression by UN.


U got Sinai as present from UK. They captured it from Ottomans.


No there was not ay such statement. Direct talks without preconditions as Israel demanded.

Similar agreemen was made with Syrians. Israel retreatd from territories captured in 1973 and even some 1967 for UN buffer zone. But Syria refused to direct talks without preconditions.

I really don't want to talk about this anymore, you believe what you believe and and i will believe what i believe..... I just think their is a lot of propoganda from your side as much as the Egyptian side. It wasn't a decisive victory that made Israel give Sinai back as some Egyptians claim, but it also wasn't a win for Israel that forced Egypt to have peace with Israel as you guys claim. A lot of propoganda is used from both sides to be honest with you. I will leave it as it is, nice talking to you.

 

[agentny17]

"If you gonna play fire with fire then at least have a bucket of water to put out the fire".

Israel knows war and peace, you could have done the same thing captured Israeli territory in 1973 and sued for peace for returning the captured land back.

But as usual the land hungry Arabs don’t plan ahead.

You Arabs should learn from professionals (including Israelis), in how to fight and end a war!!!


And before you say Egyptians are not Arabs, you're right you only call yourselves Arabs when it suits you and if you suffer humiliation then oh we are Egyptians not Arabs…




I don’t need any1 to drum me up..

I don’t like German policies in ww2 but I still admire their blitzkrieg strategy with all its pros and cons.

It was a similar scenario between Israel and Pakistan in that they faced superior numbers vs quality that still with thousands of Arabs and Indians they could not destroy both countries.

Well done to Israel for defending their land from Arab aggressors in 1973 october war….

Israeli propaganda????? You should listen to 1 of your own and stop trying to falsify history.

Only relevant part of the video is at 4:07 to 4:38…. ( Watch carefully)

PEACE!!!

Good for you, and nice video btw, althu i have no clue who is this guy...... Same can be said about Pakistan and Pakistanis too btw, but who i am to judge anybody ? People need to figure out their own problems and fix it. You are not helping, and if i start talking about you and your problems, i won't be helping either.

Peace

 

[DADU]

Good for you, and nice video btw, althu i have no clue who is this guy...... Same can be said about Pakistan and Pakistanis too btw, but who i am to judge anybody ? People need to figure out their own problems and fix it. You are not helping, and if i start talking about you and your problems, i won't be helping either.

Peace

He is an Algerian author of several books on the arab world.

We have our problems you are free to say whatever you want!!!!!!
We have a government that is the puppet of USA and Arab countries.

All we want is the government to focus on our nation instead of in other peoples affairs such as yours with Israel, and we wish to have peace with everyone including Israel just like your country.

You can say whatever you want about us buddy but unlike you we know how to fight!
From the base of siachen glacier (winter temp as low as minus 50 degrees to highest peaks of over 20,000 ft to the central plains of Punjab we have defended our country sometimes successfully sometimes not.

Isn’t it an embarrassment for you that the highest ratio of aerial kills in Arab Israeli wars is by Pakistani pilots not Arabs???

I mean you did not send us a single pilot in indo-pak wars yet our Gov. sent you virtually new recruits and showed you Arabs how to fight in combat.

Your American made tanks and planes are useless when you don’t have any able commanders!!

The Arabs are guilty of double standards against other Muslims.

I just hope that peace between pak and Israel comes soon so that we may focus on our internal affairs instead of getting caught up in Arab man made traps.

The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is not (never will be) a Muslim _Jewish affair but solely an Arab Israeli conflict, so none of our business.

And lastly I hope pak forces or USA kill that Egyptian terrorist Ayman al-Zawahiri who has been destabilising south Asia region by his racist Arab ideology and hiding with pan Islamists………….

Peace

 

[agentny17]

He is an Algerian author of several books on the arab world.

We have our problems you are free to say whatever you want!!!!!!
We have a government that is the puppet of USA and Arab countries.

All we want is the government to focus on our nation instead of in other peoples affairs such as yours with Israel, and we wish to have peace with everyone including Israel just like your country.

You can say whatever you want about us buddy but unlike you we know how to fight!
From the base of siachen glacier (winter temp as low as minus 50 degrees to highest peaks of over 20,000 ft to the central plains of Punjab we have defended our country sometimes successfully sometimes not.

Isn’t it an embarrassment for you that the highest ratio of aerial kills in Arab Israeli wars is by Pakistani pilots not Arabs???

I mean you did not send us a single pilot in indo-pak wars yet our Gov. sent you virtually new recruits and showed you Arabs how to fight in combat.

Your American made tanks and planes are useless when you don’t have any able commanders!!

The Arabs are guilty of double standards against other Muslims.

I just hope that peace between pak and Israel comes soon so that we may focus on our internal affairs instead of getting caught up in Arab man made traps.

The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is not (never will be) a Muslim _Jewish affair but solely an Arab Israeli conflict, so none of our business.

And lastly I hope pak forces or USA kill that Egyptian terrorist Ayman al-Zawahiri who has been destabilising south Asia region by his racist Arab ideology and hiding with pan Islamists………….

Peace

Do you consider Iran and Turkey to be Arabic countries for supporting the Palastinians ? Do you actually know that North African countries are only Arabic speaking countries not of an Arabic ethnicity? Same could be said about Palastinians, and Syrian. We are proud of it too since we can read the Koran and learn it......The Palestinian Israeli conflict is not an Arab-Israeli affair, i am not really sure if a muslim can actually say that, but whatever!!! other than that, its not really worth it to comment on what you said.

 

[DADU]

Do you consider Iran and Turkey to be Arabic countries for supporting the Palastinians ? Do you actually know that North African countries are only Arabic speaking countries not of an Arabic ethnicity? Same could be said about Palastinians, and Syrian. We are proud of it too since we can read the Koran and learn it......The Palestinian Israeli conflict is not an Arab-Israeli affair, i am not really sure if a muslim can actually say that, but whatever!!! other than that, its not really worth it to comment on what you said.

My last example

And before you say Egyptians are not Arabs, you're right you only call yourselves Arabs when it suits you and if you suffer humiliation then oh we are Egyptians not Arabs…

Have you heard of the phrase Arabization???? ?? There is a whole thread on this forum ……..

All these north African countries that you speak off why is it that they consider themselves Arab whenever something good happens and then suddenly Bedouin or else when something bad happens????????????

Religion aside, your countries have adopted everything Arabic, with food, language, Arab philosophy pan Arabism, Arab union and what not……….

Then you complain you are being labelled Arab when you declare your own states to be Arabic?????

Has turkey gone to war with Israel? No

Has Iran gone to war with Israel ? No

They are not relevant here and I’m sure the Israelis consider the Turks, Iranians to be better trained and dangerous then you Racist Arabs.

300 million Arabs can’t touch a small nation Israel with a population of 7- 8 million?????

That’s what I call bravery and super courage in the face of overwhelmingly foes.

This negative outright propaganda of Jews and Israelis has made me realise why groups such as the British Muslims for Israel counter the claims made by radicals against the Jewish and Israeli people.

I am still by no means affiliated with any group before you start pointing fingers. Always listen to two sides of the story you never hear from Israelis because you switch off the TV when they are on.

Nor will I ever join that group but no matter what; I will continue to speak out for the injustices suffered by the Israeli people by Palestinians and Arab extremists/terrorists!!!

And I also hope that more Muslims start to see the right and wrong and accept Israel’s right to exist.

Peace

 

[agentny17]

My last example


Have you heard of the phrase Arabization???? ?? There is a whole thread on this forum ……..

All these north African countries that you speak off why is it that they consider themselves Arab whenever something good happens and then suddenly Bedouin or else when something bad happens????????????

Religion aside, your countries have adopted everything Arabic, with food, language, Arab philosophy pan Arabism, Arab union and what not……….

Then you complain you are being labelled Arab when you declare your own states to be Arabic?????

Has turkey gone to war with Israel? No

Has Iran gone to war with Israel ? No

They are not relevant here and I’m sure the Israelis consider the Turks, Iranians to be better trained and dangerous then you Racist Arabs.

300 million Arabs can’t touch a small nation Israel with a population of 7- 8 million?????

That’s what I call bravery and super courage in the face of overwhelmingly foes.

This negative outright propaganda of Jews and Israelis has made me realise why groups such as the British Muslims for Israel counter the claims made by radicals against the Jewish and Israeli people.

I am still by no means affiliated with any group before you start pointing fingers. Always listen to two sides of the story you never hear from Israelis because you switch off the TV when they are on.

Nor will I ever join that group but no matter what; I will continue to speak out for the injustices suffered by the Israeli people by Palestinians and Arab extremists/terrorists!!!

And I also hope that more Muslims start to see the right and wrong and accept Israel’s right to exist.

Peace

I am not complaining of being called an Arab, or actually being an Arab, don't put words to my mouth.. I am just trying to show you that you generalize and just keep attacking 22 nations and its people, althu you basically know nothing about them, thier culture, backgrounds, food, lang., you just keep talking. Its really not worth responding to you.

You don't know me to tell me who i listen to, and who i don't listen to, and what i do or believe you really sounds a little insane to me.