BYD: Road to Dominance of Electric Vehicle/Transport

[shadows888]

My quote is for the point i raise to Harmartia Antitode, which is you cannot buy a BYD e6 in the US unless you are going for fleet sale, so what if that is from 2013, did BYD release BYD e6 for American market? At least I did not hear it did.

For my original post, you are comparing Apples to Oranges, Tesla is a prime brand, look at how much they sell their car for (beside Model 3), and look at how much BYD selling their passenger vehicle? What next? Are you going to compare Porche to Kia?? Also, don't forget most of BYD sales is in China (60% of BYD annual sale is in China) and China have 140% duty for foreign vehicle. While everyone (including the Chinese) heard of Tesla, do you think many people know BYD exist outside China?

If you want to counter that point, I am all ears.

Jokes on you, KIA revenue is double than that of porsche.

Also, did you not read the article? in order to sell in the US, you need the production in the USA by law. BYD only have electric bus production in CA currently. No one in US know about Huawei either, but they are still the biggest telecom company in the world, doesn't change the facts.

 

[WebMaster]

We love competition from American competitors. The market is too big. Sharing the pie is not a problem.

I like this attitude. More competition is better for the consumers AKA humans.

 

[cirr]

BYD will be mining and manufacturing its own lithium(from brine) and lithium salts( inputs for cathode materials) in Qinghai China in a couple of years.

Tesla?

 

[jhungary]

Jokes on you, KIA revenue is double than that of porsche.

Also, did you not read the article? in order to sell in the US, you need the production in the USA by law. BYD only have electric bus production in CA currently. No one in US know about Huawei either, but they are still the biggest telecom company in the world, doesn't change the facts.

I said, if you try to compare BYD to Tesla, it will be like comparing Ferrari to Toyota or comparing Porsche to Kia. One (Tesla) is a premium brand, the other one (BYD) is a common brand, prior to May 2016 before the release of Model 3 by tesla, Tesla is basically producing exclusively high performance prestige vehicle which will set you back at least 80 grand after governmental rebate. model S cost you around 75 grands, and model X cost you about 110 grands (will cost about 40% more in China) on the other hand, a BYD car cost you anywhere from 32-40 grands.

You are trying to compare the selling rate of a premium brand to the selling rate of a common producer. It's like saying since Ferrari did not sell as much of their F430, F458 or F488 to Toyota Carmy, Corolla and Prius, Ferrari need to "Catch Up" with Toyota. Does it make sense to you?

Also, there ARE manufracture hub in SF as BYD is making e5 and e6 for sale in US market, just not to private customer (if you read my article carefully, it said YOU CAN BUY a BYD e6 as part of Fleet deal in the US for $52,000), BYD said they would want to concentrate on Bus production that's the reason why they only sell E6 to fleet customer. I means that is literally just an excuse becuase will you think people will go for BYD e6 in the US for $52,000 or they will go for a Tesla Model 3 for $40,000? Bear in mind, Tesla have 372,000 pre-order from around the world for their Model 3 in just 6 months.. Can BYD really beat that?

BYD passenger simply have NO MARKET outside China, and that mostly because of the Chinese heavy import duty.

 

[gambit]

BYD passenger simply have NO MARKET outside China, and that mostly because of the Chinese heavy import duty.

It goes like this...

- China have over one bils people.
- China restrict foreign competition via import duty.
- China sells more Chinese products to Chinese than foreigners sold to Chinese.
- Therefore, Chinese products are superior.

Why is that so difficult for YOU to understand ?

 

[shadows888]

It goes like this...

- China have over one bils people.
- China restrict foreign competition via import duty.
- China sells more Chinese products to Chinese than foreigners sold to Chinese.
- Therefore, Chinese products are superior.

Why is that so difficult for YOU to understand ?

that's funny, then why are you keep using Chinese products then? LOL

Dude, did you have some kind of reading comprehension problem?

I said, if you try to compare BYD to Tesla, it will be like comparing Ferrari to Toyota or comparing Porsche to Kia. One (Tesla) is a premium brand, the other one (BYD) is a common brand, prior to May 2016 before the release of Model 3 by tesla, Tesla is basically producing exclusively high performance prestige vehicle which will set you back at least 80 grand after governmental rebate. model S cost you around 75 grands, and model X cost you about 110 grands (will cost about 40% more in China) on the other hand, a BYD car cost you anywhere from 32-40 grands.

You are trying to compare the selling rate of a premium brand to the selling rate of a common producer. It's like saying since Ferrari did not sell as much of their F430, F458 or F488 to Toyota Carmy, Corolla and Prius, Ferrari need to "Catch Up" with Toyota. Does it make sense to you?

Also, there ARE manufracture hub in SF as BYD is making e5 and e6 for sale in US market, just not to private customer (if you read my article carefully, it said YOU CAN BUY a BYD e6 as part of Fleet deal in the US for $52,000), BYD said they would want to concentrate on Bus production that's the reason why they only sell E6 to fleet customer. I means that is literally just an excuse becuase will you think people will go for BYD e6 in the US for $52,000 or they will go for a Tesla Model 3 for $40,000? Bear in mind, Tesla have 372,000 pre-order from around the world for their Model 3 in just 6 months.. Can BYD really beat that?

BYD passenger simply have NO MARKET outside China, and that mostly because of the Chinese heavy import duty.

Yes, they are in different sectors, did you not understand the OP of the article? it list BYD is outselling Tesla by Megawatts. it did not talk about a Ferrari vs Toyota comparison.

 

[jhungary]

Yes, they are in different sectors, did you not understand the OP of the article? it list BYD is outselling Tesla by Megawatts. it did not talk about a Ferrari vs Toyota comparison.

I do, but I seriously doubt you understood my point.

My point is, this "outsell" and "catch up" BS as OP article mentioned does not worth ANYTHING because Tesla and BYD is on 2 differnet scale. As they are targetting 2 different type of customer.

So what if BYD outsell Tesla by mile? It's like I know for a fact that toyota camry outsell Ferrari F488 any given year, but then so the F what? You are talking about a urban run around vs a supercar, it's the same as BYD e6 is an urban run around vs Tesla Model S which is a supercar, the same logic applies, so the F what with that? When you are selling a car about 80,000 a pop and someone is selling the same type abiet less luxury for $40,000, do you think who can sell more? Does that mean anything?

It goes like this...

- China have over one bils people.
- China restrict foreign competition via import duty.
- China sells more Chinese products to Chinese than foreigners sold to Chinese.
- Therefore, Chinese products are superior.

Why is that so difficult for YOU to understand ?

To be honest, I don't quite understand these "outsell", "catch up", "I sell more car than you so I am more superior" BS, for me, I wish Tesla never release Model 3, it used to mean something buying a tesla, it's like telling people I own a ferrari or I own a Lambo, now, telling people I own a tesla is like telling people I own a car that's selling the same (or a little bit ;less) than a Chinese Unknown brand. how good to say that?

lol

 

[ahojunk]

Regardless of the numbers, I have great respect for Elon Musk who is the pioneer in the EV market. Before he came along, none of the big automobile manufacturers went into the EV segment. (GM manufactured an EV1 briefly in the mid 1990's but scrapped it). Elon basically reignited interest in EV.

The other big thing from Elon Musk - he shares his Tesla patents. I am not aware of any other company doing that.

Elon Musk has my utmost respect.

I feel the future is bright for both. Tesla smart marketing will give itself an edge on luxury recognition. It will become like the BMW of the mainstream gasoline car, meanwhile BYD is the Toyota of mainstream car. Both are heading toward that way where Tesla will dominate the rich, upper class consumer and BYD will take the cake in middle and lower class like Toyota.

I do hope this is the case. I hope Tesla is successful in the luxury segment, or at least carve out a decent market share.

 

[SBUS-CXK]

Brand awareness, Tesla is beyond BYD in any way imaginable. Tesla is cool, high tech, and futuristic. The name Tesla provokes imagination and can sell products for a premium, while BYD mostly can't.

Oh.......Although don't understand, but feel very powerful.

 

[TaiShang]

View attachment 364108

Regardless of the numbers, I have great respect for Elon Musk who is the pioneer in the EV market. Before he came along, none of the big automobile manufacturers went into the EV segment. (GM manufactured an EV1 briefly in the mid 1990's but scrapped it). Elon basically reignited interest in EV.

The other big thing from Elon Musk - he shares his Tesla patents. I am not aware of any other company doing that.

Elon Musk has my utmost respect.



I do hope this is the case. I hope Tesla is successful in the luxury segment, or at least carve out a decent market share.

Obviously, Tesla is overrated. It is an early-coming fall-behinder. There is little they can do to outcompete or even catch up with China because BYD is an all-round industry leader.

***

BYD's Electric Truck Expansion Has Big Potential
Nov.27.16 |


Matt Bohlsen

Investment advisor, portfolio strategy, growth at reasonable price

Summary

BYD aims to replace dirty diesel polluting trucks with zero emission electric trucks.

BYD plans to bring a full array of electric trucks to market.

BYD wins California e-truck contract, and also launches the electric garbage truck in the USA.

BYD Co (SHE:002594) (HK:1211) (OTCPK:BYDDF) (OTCPK:BYDDY) - HKD 45.45, US $5.84.

BYD is a globally leading Chinese electric vehicle (EV) company based in Shenzhen, China. It is currently the global leader in EV sales, heading for around 100,000 unit sales in 2016. It is also the global leader in electric (e) buses and in supplying the global e-taxi market. You can read more about that here. In 2016, it announced an expansion into monorails, which I previously discussed here. Its latest foray is into electric trucks, which was first launched in the US back on May 3, 2016. As Clean Technicas states:

The introduction of trucks to the lineup is a natural extension of this existing competency (e-bus), with the main difference being a vehicle designed to carry tons of cargo vs a vehicle designed to carry lots of humans around town."

And, BYD "is bringing a full array of electric trucks to market." Think of commercial trucks such as garbage trucks, transportation trucks, even down to the workplace with electric forklifts.

BYD is directly targeting the diesel vehicles

Diesel fuel is a very bad pollutant. By targeting the trucking industry, BYD aims to replace dirty diesel fumes with zero emission electric trucks. This will result in less cancer risk and a cleaner environment.

BYD trucks' selling points

• BYD electric trucks will save operators at least 50% on their fuel bills.
• Maintenance costs will be drastically reduced, as EVs require minimal maintenance.
• Zero emissions.
• Meets Government emissions standards. Note that current US Federal regulations require heavy-duty trucks to achieve a 10% to 20% increase in fuel efficiency by 2018.
• BYD's lithium iron phosphate battery is very durable and long lasting, hence BYD can give a 12-year battery warranty.

The size of the truck market potential for BYD

The global truck market is huge. In the US alone, according to the U.S. Department of Transportation, there were more than 133 million total trucks in 2012. It should be noted that this figure includes 55m SUVs. So if we subtract those out, the US truck market was still 78m. If we assume each truck is replaced after 15 years, then we get about 5.2m new USA trucks per annum (pa). Globally, the number of commercial vehicles sold in 2015 was 22.12m. BYD currently has 15% market share for new global EV sales pa, so if it were to reach that figure for commercial vehicles (assuming a mere 1% of trucks go electric in 2017), that would be 15% of (22.12m x 1%), or around 33,000 sales potential in 2017. The issue for BYD would be ramping up production and plant expansion to meet demand. For now, my model assumes BYD will ramp to selling 500 e-trucks in 2017, growing at 100% pa at least until 2020. This is purely speculation for now, and I expect the actual figures are likely to be much higher, once BYD really gets going.

BYD electric truck range

BYD T5, T7 and T9 electric trucks, and BYD electric forklift

Click to enlarge

Source

BYD wins California truck contract

On August 5, Hybrid Cars reported, "BYD gets $9m California grant for 27 electric trucks....The electric trucks will replace diesel service trucks and yard tractors in the communities of Commerce, Fontana and San Bernadino." BYD will manufacture the electric trucks from its Lancaster factory in California.

BYD partner launches electric garbage trucks in the US

On November 22, Green Car Reports reported: "BYD partners with U.S. firm to launch all-electric garbage truck." The US firm is Wayne Engineering, which specializes in garbage-truck bodies.

BYD and Wayne Engineering electric garbage truck

Source

Competition

At least for now, BYD has very little competition in the e-truck market. Swiss company E-Force has developed an 18-ton all-electric truck with 300 kms of range. Tevva Motors has developed a 7.5 tons, 80 miles range, electric truck which is manufactured by the Chinese company JAC, and plans to sell in the UK. Another small start-up is US-based EV Fleet Inc. (EVFI). Finally, Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) has said that it plans to release a Tesla semi e-truck next year.

Conclusion

BYD has a lot to gain by its expansion into the trucking market, including gaining brand awareness and acceptance in the US. BYD has already achieved dominance by being an early mover into EVs, e-buses, and e-taxis. It is looking very likely it will do the same with e-trucks.

Whilst it is still early days for BYD in the electric truck business, and as with its recent monorail plans, there appears to be yet another huge market opportunity for the company. The growth areas for BYD just keep coming, and I have not yet even mentioned energy storage or PV, roof tiles and so on. BYD has evolved to become a truly integrated green energy company with a growing suite of products that are very much in demand.

I have updated my BYD earnings model to include future e-truck sales, with very conservative estimates for now, that can be updated as BYD progresses. I have also added in some future conservative monorail revenues. Briefly, my BYD model now values it by end 2017 at HKD 56.75 (USD 7.31), end 2018 at HKD 84.41 (USD 10.88), and end 2019 at HKD 109.68 (USD 14.14).

 

[TaiShang]

***

One national champion is never enough.

***

CATL aims to plug into the global market
China Daily, December 29, 2016

A technician assembles lithium-ion car batteries at a factory in Liaoning province. [Photo/Xinhua]

A dusty village on the outskirts of Ningde, a third-tier city in China's southeast, seems an unlikely place for the headquarters of a potential global leader in future auto motive technology.

Yet China's major industrial policy decisions－move up the value chain, clean up polluted urban skies, and shift to plug-in cars－have Contemporary Amperex Technology Ltd (CATL) poised to go from hometown hero to national champion, and beyond.

China's answer to Japan's Panasonic Corp and South Korea's LG Chem Ltd has tripled its production capacity for lithium-ion car batteries in the past year to keep up with a surge in China's sales of electric cars.

After a second major funding round completed in October, the company's value quadrupled to 80 billion yuan ($11.5 billion), CEO Huang Shilin said last week.

CATL, which hopes to list on Beijing's over-the-counter exchange as part of plans to raise at least another 30 billion yuan by 2020, could be a dominant force globally.

It has already overtaken LG Chem in lithium-ion car battery production, and is chasing down Panasonic and BYD Co Ltd.

CATL plans to grow its battery capacity sixfold by 2020 to 50 gigawatt hours, which could put it ahead of Tesla Motor Inc's gigafactory in Nevada.

"We hope by 2020 we can achieve performance and price that lead the world," Huang said.

The company, founded just five years ago, is already pushing beyond China's borders, with offices in Sweden, Germany and France and plans to build a factory in Europe. Company representatives say that because of non-disclosure agreements they can only list BMW as a customer for now.

Despite the ambitious expansion, the emerging segment's dependence on government policy and rapidly evolving technology is not without risk.

A123, a US automotive battery maker, went from IPO to bust in just three years as battery costs remained stubbornly high and orders dried up.

"People think we're a big successful company, but we think we're in jeopardy every day," marketing director Neill Yang said. "The market environment and technology changes so fast that if we don't follow the trend we could die in three months."

To become a Chinese champion, a battery maker must first shed any foreign investment to be eligible for subsidies and other policy support, people in the industry say.

Before he set up CATL, Robin Zeng had started Amperex Technology Ltd (ATL), a company now majority-owned by Japan's TDK.

ATL initially had a 15 percent stake in CATL, but liquidated that holding last year, Yang said, when electric vehicle sales first started to take off. He declined to elaborate on the circumstances of that divestment.

TDK separated from CATL to focus on batteries for mobile consumer electronics, but still collects royalties on some intellectual property used by CATL, a spokesman for the Japanese company said.

"The reason is strategic and confidential. ATL still keeps a close relationship with CATL," said a person familiar with the situation, who was not authorized to speak to the media.

ATL and CATL still share a Ningde campus, although the front gate and main office bear only the ATL name.

Zeng, a Ningde local with a doctorate in chemistry, appears to be the remaining link between the two companies he founded. He declined an interview request.

While government support for electric cars has driven demand for components such as batteries, Beijing is also rolling out other policies that could benefit leading producers like CATL, by forcing smaller firms to consolidate or go out of business.

The Ministry of Industry and Information Technology said last month it is considering a rule that would increase minimum production requirements for battery makers by around 40 times to 8 gigawatt hours.

Only BYD and CATL are roughly in line with that minimum, though Chinese media reports suggest Hefei Guoxuan High-Tech Power Energy Co Ltd and Tianjin Lishen Battery Joint-Stock Co Ltd may be close to or above that level by next year.

Yang said subsidy support for batteries is fairly modest compared to those for producing electric vehicles, which totaled $4.5 billion last year alone.

CATL has been nominated as one of three battery makers－with Guoxuan and Lishen－for incentives under China's 13th Five-Year Plan (2016-20), promising around $15 million if it can meet targets, Yang said. He noted, though, that a single production line costs $40 million.

Among national 2020 targets: to halve battery costs to below 1 yuan (14 cents) per kilowatt hour, and improve energy density by two-thirds.

To get there, CATL is ramping up spending on research and development, where it employs more than 1,000 people with advanced science degrees.

"The strength of their R&D investment is quite large," said Fu Yuwu, chief of the Society of Automotive Engineers of China, adding he hopes the company can become a global leader.

"They have such large scale and the support of China's huge market, all the more reason they should do a good job of internationalizing," he said.

 

[qwerrty]

View attachment 364108


The other big thing from Elon Musk - he shares his Tesla patents. I am not aware of any other company doing that.

he only sharing basic stuff like casing, diagnostic, interfacing, etc.. it's just one of tesla marketing hype tactics. don't be fooled.. he's not stupid. lol. even if he wanted to, the battery tech that make an ev isn't owned by his company. tesla is just assembler like apple

 

[zeronet]

The market reality is that only China is very serious on pushing EV among all major countries. Trump's takeover is not a good news for the EV in US market. So what do you expect on the market share? Tesla will be kept in a niche market, cannot compete with BYD on the full product lines.

 

[shadows888]

The market reality is that only China is very serious on pushing EV among all major countries. Trump's takeover is not a good news for the EV in US market. So what do you expect on the market share? Tesla will be kept in a niche market, cannot compete with BYD on the full product lines.

trump will do what his corporate masters tell him to do. business as usual.

 

[xunzi]

My quote is for the point i raise to Harmartia Antitode, which is you cannot buy a BYD e6 in the US unless you are going for fleet sale, so what if that is from 2013, did BYD release BYD e6 for American market? At least I did not hear it did.

For my original post, you are comparing Apples to Oranges, Tesla is a prime brand, look at how much they sell their car for (beside Model 3), and look at how much BYD selling their passenger vehicle? What next? Are you going to compare Porche to Kia?? Also, don't forget most of BYD sales is in China (60% of BYD annual sale is in China) and China have 140% duty for foreign vehicle. While everyone (including the Chinese) heard of Tesla, do you think many people know BYD exist outside China?

If you want to counter that point, I am all ears.

Like I said, US regulation makes it harder to sell car in the US without factory.

I already told you, BYD is the Toyota of electric car. They target a different segment of consumers and market it that way. Do you think Toyota or Porche, who is a bigger company? You are a joke when it comes to analyzing future trend and success.

All companies like to be the top of their respective food chain if possible. If given a choice, BYD would like to sell their vehicles with a premium too, but BYD just doesn't have that technological advancement and brand power to do it.

There are just too many me-too companies in China that doesn't innovate and are just bottom feeders;electric cars from the likes of Chanjiang eCool(eCool, the fk brand is that?), Dongfeng, Brilliance, Beijing Auto...and now LeEco too. Will we ever see any ground breaking innovations from any of these companies for their electric vehicles? I doubt it.

With all that said, however, I think these are hopes for electric car innovations from China. It will most like not from the above mentioned slow moving companies, but rather from the like of Tencent, Baidu, Alibaba(if and when it steps into this sector), and perhaps BYD too.

Wrong. From the beginning, it's clear BYD is not aiming to sell their car to a high selected segment of consumer but to all the mass consumers from all walk of life and income. Their strategy is very much like Toyota with various models to fit consumer tastes and expectations. This is why BYD future is very bright as they will have control over vast amount of human population electric car adoption. If people really want a high end car, they can purchased those supercars from NextEV, LeEco with the latest tech and specification. But you have to remember, the luxury brand cars don't sell as much compare to the general mass consumers.