Buk-M2s, Pantsir-S1s and Pechora 2M unable to down IAF jets

[rockstarIN]

Our F16 are far more capable in jamming as compared to anything India has ...

Thats why we are not afraid of India's MKI ...

We are acquiring AESA for JF17 which is jam resistant ... However, currently we don't have appropriate answer to Rafael ...

Which jamming pod the PAF F-16 has?

FYI, the blk 52 which PAF is flying can be find every where, there is not so such secret technology it has got. Even you will find it in Indian skies on daily basis. The exact same configuration.

Whereas IsaF Sufas are far more advanced with their own electronic stuff. Even they preferred and wanted to install their ELTA/2032 in their F-16s instead of the current APG series but Americans did not allow.

 

[Zarvan]

Syria's 9K33 Osas would however prove far less successful against Israeli Air Force raids into Syria, the number of which rapidly increased in the past years. These strikes, mainly targeted at weapon depots around Damascus, have so far met with little resistance from Syria due to heavy use of electronic countermeasures by Israel. In fact, even Syria's brand-new Buk-M2s, Pantsir-S1s and Pechora 2Ms have so far proved incapable of intercepting and shooting down Israeli aircraft.

http://spioenkop.blogspot.com/2016/10/hide-and-seek-story-of-jaish-al-islams.html

Since indian airforce is getting equipment from israel so it will also get difficult for our smaller systems to down an indian jet, let alone the shoulder fired missiles.

First Buk M3 and Pantsir S2 can take out any flying object. Yes Fighter Jets also come up with things and steps to avoid it. Manpad still can take out fighter jet

 

[DavidSling]

It was reported a year ago or more that Israel worked it ways toward jamming S400 and other new air defenses that were presented in Syria.
Some information regarding Israel capabilities:
The air force has very big EW unit.
The IDF have Cyber corps, about 20% of the world's investment in cyber come to Israel.
F16 Sufa- http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f-16i/
F35 (will land in Israel next month) - https://defence.pk/threads/cultural...-transparency-israels-first-adir-f35i.435975/
Each aircraft the IAF posses goes thro massive modifications, hardware and software, to suit the army's needs

 

[DJ_Viper]

Syria's 9K33 Osas would however prove far less successful against Israeli Air Force raids into Syria, the number of which rapidly increased in the past years. These strikes, mainly targeted at weapon depots around Damascus, have so far met with little resistance from Syria due to heavy use of electronic countermeasures by Israel. In fact, even Syria's brand-new Buk-M2s, Pantsir-S1s and Pechora 2Ms have so far proved incapable of intercepting and shooting down Israeli aircraft.

http://spioenkop.blogspot.com/2016/10/hide-and-seek-story-of-jaish-al-islams.html

Since indian airforce is getting equipment from israel so it will also get difficult for our smaller systems to down an indian jet, let alone the shoulder fired missiles.

Sir, its not just the Israeli equipment. Its really the American R&D. Outside of the SA-400, I think there is a solution for everything else that Russia exports ( a much different system than what the Russians use). The US knows every single Russian system closely so in a real scenario, 60-70% of Russian AA weapons will prove out to be duds. The Israelis have built their tech based on the American input and have further increased their capability.

Now in the same regards, if Pakistan has the scientific capability to study the Indian systems, know their frequencies (I think the DFRM equipment was give with block 52?, or through other means like I've seen some of the new Chinese frequency modulating equipment online too), you can develop effective counter measures against the Indian missiles also. The essential part is to treat the incoming missile's frequency and distort it so the warhead loses the lock. Like an old tv screen that shows distortion when the weather used to be cloudy or rainy.

Its all a part of the electronic warfare. Also, at this point in time, there is little comparison between the USAF and Israeli air-force with the Indian AF. Ten years from now, it may be a different story as that's their goal to create synergy between the three. Thanks,

It was reported a year ago or more that Israel worked it ways toward jamming S400 and other new air defenses that were presented in Syria.

Yup, you are correct. Everything available in Syria can become a dud, outside of the S-400. That solution ain't too far in the future either I am pretty sure. Thanks

 

[DavidSling]

Sir, its not just the Israeli equipment. Its really the American R&D. Outside of the SA-400, I think there is a solution for everything else that Russia exports ( a much different system than what the Russians use). The US knows every single Russian system closely so in a real scenario, 60-70% of Russian AA weapons will prove out to be duds. The Israelis have built their tech based on the American input and have further increased their capability.

Now in the same regards, if Pakistan has the scientific capability to study the Indian systems, know their frequencies (I think the DFRM equipment was give with block 52?, or through other means, you can develop effective counter measures against the Indian missiles also. Its all a part of the electronic warfare. Also, at this point in time, there is little comparison between the USAF and Israeli air-force and the Indian AF. Ten years from now, it may be a different story as that's their goal to create synergy between the three. Thanks,



Yup, you are correct. Everything available in Syria can become a dud, outside of the S-400. That solution ain't too far in the future either I am pretty sure. Thanks

There's alot of common ground between Israel and US air forces, altho only abit of such collaboration is known to the public

 

[DJ_Viper]

There's alot of common ground between Israel and USAF air forces, altho only abit of such collaboration is known to the public

Yup. I consider the Israeli AF the ME wing of the USAF essentially. The strategy, tactics, equipment, training all are the same.

 

[$@rJen]

Sir, its not just the Israeli equipment. Its really the American R&D. Outside of the SA-400, I think there is a solution for everything else that Russia exports ( a much different system than what the Russians use). The US knows every single Russian system closely so in a real scenario, 60-70% of Russian AA weapons will prove out to be duds. The Israelis have built their tech based on the American input and have further increased their capability.

Now in the same regards, if Pakistan has the scientific capability to study the Indian systems, know their frequencies (I think the DFRM equipment was give with block 52?, or through other means like I've seen some of the new Chinese frequency modulating equipment online too), you can develop effective counter measures against the Indian missiles also. The essential part is to treat the incoming missile's frequency and distort it so the warhead loses the lock. Like an old tv screen that shows distortion when the weather used to be cloudy or rainy.

Its all a part of the electronic warfare. Also, at this point in time, there is little comparison between the USAF and Israeli air-force with the Indian AF. Ten years from now, it may be a different story as that's their goal to create synergy between the three. Thanks,



Yup, you are correct. Everything available in Syria can become a dud, outside of the S-400. That solution ain't too far in the future either I am pretty sure. Thanks

No its not American R&D.... they only fund Israel R&D... rest is with Israel.... who gave the americans about the mig info do you think!???? It was the Israelis... mossad was able to bring a mig from Syrian air force which was studied by IDF and the infos were shared... yes both US and israel share some infos on enemy weapons... but that doesn't necessarily means American do everything.. and the EW they installed on the mig21 showed the USAF who is the don in EW.

My bro your information is outdated ... Pakistan both air and naval assets are already working on net-centric environment ... We already have functional Link 17 just like Nato ... Even our F16 and JF17 can share data with our Chinese ships ....

Sir you are suggesting that Israel is jamming Russian equipment whereas Russians are giving them free hand to do whatever they want in Syria ... Are you that naive to believe this stupid story ... It is two way cooperation between Russia and Israel in Syria ... both are complementing each other ... There is no electronic attacks on russian AF by Israel ...

Can you please present your source of Israel capability of jamming anything ??? Kindly recheck your knowledge ... In today's netcentric environment when adversary is tracked by one, locked by second and fired by third platform you are advocating jamming capabilities of Israel ... Pakistan has already achieved that capability through induction of JF17 thunder, karakorum eagle and saab eireye ...

Sorry bro... but i think you're ill informed.. you might have net centric now but we obtained it much earlier than you did... and when we compare EW suit of paf and iaf... I'm pretty sure what we use and mki and mirage upgraded ones are superior to that of paf.... I'm no expert but if you've proof.. prove it to me...
@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA ...
Bro little input here

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

these systems are anti helicopoter and drone systems.

 

[CHI RULES]

It is better to analyse own strengths as well as weaknesses.

Pak strengths.

Ly80 and Spada 2000 with mix of Chinese/Western radars.

Pak weaknesses.

Lack of high altitude fighter/interceptors & High Altitude SAMS

Limited EW/ECM capabilities..

Lack of Anti Stealth capabilities.

 

[DJ_Viper]

No its not American R&D.... they only fund Israel R&D... rest is with Israel.... who gave the americans about the mig info do you think!???? It was the Israelis... mossad was able to bring a mig from Syrian air force which was studied by IDF and the infos were shared... yes both US and israel share some infos on enemy weapons... but that doesn't necessarily means American do everything.. and the EW they installed on the mig21 showed the USAF who is the don in EW.

Here we go. So.....the US military system has been dependent on the Israelis right? We had Russian systems internally that we train with back in the 60's. These are childish, egoistic posts that you read from the Indian and Pakistani members and you just laugh. Isreael and the US cooperate very closely. Probably more closer than the NATO. But that doesn't mean that a country the size of New Jersey has run American military tech center for decades. You should make sensible claims. Thanks

 

[DavidSling]

Here we go. So.....the US military system has been dependent on the Israelis right? We had Russian systems internally that we train with back in the 60's. These are childish, egoistic posts that you read from the Indian and Pakistani members and you just laugh. Isreael and the US cooperate very closely. Probably more closer than the NATO. But that doesn't mean that a country the size of New Jersey has run American military tech center for decades. You should make sensible claims. Thanks

There's a deep cooperation, altho each side has it's own systems, and there's a competition between the Israeli industries and American in most military fields, aka drones, missiles and more.
Claiming that Israeli made systems are American or that U.S made systems are Israeli is completely idiotic argument, each side prefer to keep some cards hidden like they should

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

There's a deep cooperation, altho each side has it's own systems, and there's a competition between the Israeli industries and American in most military fields, aka drones, missiles and more.
Claiming that Israeli made systems are American or that U.S made systems are Israeli is completely idiotic argument, each side prefer to keep some cards hidden like they should

Anti-Semitic fanatics will try everything possible to discredit Israeli achievements.

 

[DJ_Viper]

There's a deep cooperation, altho each side has it's own systems, and there's a competition between the Israeli industries and American in most military fields, aka drones, missiles and more.
Claiming that Israeli made systems are American or that U.S made systems are Israeli is completely idiotic argument, each side prefer to keep some cards hidden like they should

Common bro, you are a Jew brother, you know better....what exactly Israel had in terms of advance home grown tech 40+ years ago? I can get into a list of stuff that Israel got from the US, both through proper channels and through improper channels. But its not worth discussing here.

At the end of the day, yes, both are partners and now there is a healthy competition which I am well aware of. But to say that the US takes input from the Israelis since the Mig's time, its an insanely stupid statement. Israel has gone up a lot and the aid we provide in billions, has setup serious hi-tech businesses. But what was there 30-40 years ago? I am not discounting the fact that Israel now builds top end tech, which is a reality. I am arguing the fact that the US military industrial complex takes input from Israel to develop stuff like the other guy was saying. That's just very untrue and we all know that. Thanks

 

[DavidSling]

Common bro, you are a Jew brother, you know better....what exactly Israel had in terms of advance home grown tech 40+ years ago? I can get into a list of stuff that Israel got from the US, both through proper channels and through improper channels. But its not worth discussing here.

At the end of the day, yes, both are partners and now there is a healthy competition which I am well aware of. But to say that the US takes input from the Israelis since the Mig's time, its an insanely stupid statement. Israel has gone up a lot and the aid we provide in billions, has setup serious hi-tech businesses. But what was there 30-40 years ago? I am not discounting the fact that Israel now builds top end tech, which is a reality. I am arguing the fact that the US military industrial complex takes input from Israel to develop stuff like the other guy was saying. That's just very untrue and we all know that. Thanks

U.S just bought Iron Fist and is considering Trophy for it's armored corps, Israel sold drones to the U.S back in the 80's.
Im not saying that Israel can challenge U.S military industrial complex, but Israel do have some cards in the deck.
Israel contributed to mature the F15 and F16 programs in the early stages, by providing hundred of fixes to the U.S upon their experience with the fighter jets.
for summary, the U.S is a superpower and Israel isn't, but it's still a country with very advance tech, developed by the years with cooperation of western and U.S partners and with other partners around the world, Israel hi tech power should be acknowledge

 

[The Accountant]

No its not American R&D.... they only fund Israel R&D... rest is with Israel.... who gave the americans about the mig info do you think!???? It was the Israelis... mossad was able to bring a mig from Syrian air force which was studied by IDF and the infos were shared... yes both US and israel share some infos on enemy weapons... but that doesn't necessarily means American do everything.. and the EW they installed on the mig21 showed the USAF who is the don in EW.



Sorry bro... but i think you're ill informed.. you might have net centric now but we obtained it much earlier than you did... and when we compare EW suit of paf and iaf... I'm pretty sure what we use and mki and mirage upgraded ones are superior to that of paf.... I'm no expert but if you've proof.. prove it to me...
@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA ...
Bro little input here

Which jamming pod the PAF F-16 has?

FYI, the blk 52 which PAF is flying can be find every where, there is not so such secret technology it has got. Even you will find it in Indian skies on daily basis. The exact same configuration.

Whereas IsaF Sufas are far more advanced with their own electronic stuff. Even they preferred and wanted to install their ELTA/2032 in their F-16s instead of the current APG series but Americans did not allow.

F16 do not need separate jamming pod... F16 on-board avionics are designed for the task .. Ask your Mig pilots and they will tell you how good it is ...

F16 is common as it is most proven platform ... If copying platform could have been that earlier

Sir I think you need to study the studies behind avionics ... Why Pakistan is investing on JF-17 whereas with slightly more bucks we could have gone for J10 ... Why are we still buying F-16 even used one and upgrading them ???

Sir these days individual asset or aircraft is nothing ... real game is net centric warfare .... Israel is pushing for ELTA/2032 as it will facilitate them in net-centric warfare ... Ability of ELTA to communicate with rest of systems of Israel is much higher as compared to APG series ...

Thats the reason Pakistan is focusing on its own platform i.e. JF17 ... So Pakistan is more inclined towards having aircraft and avionics to which it has some degree of control does that means that off the shelf solution are inferrior???

Unlike fan boy stuff real warfare is entirely different ...

No its not American R&D.... they only fund Israel R&D... rest is with Israel.... who gave the americans about the mig info do you think!???? It was the Israelis... mossad was able to bring a mig from Syrian air force which was studied by IDF and the infos were shared... yes both US and israel share some infos on enemy weapons... but that doesn't necessarily means American do everything.. and the EW they installed on the mig21 showed the USAF who is the don in EW.



Sorry bro... but i think you're ill informed.. you might have net centric now but we obtained it much earlier than you did... and when we compare EW suit of paf and iaf... I'm pretty sure what we use and mki and mirage upgraded ones are superior to that of paf.... I'm no expert but if you've proof.. prove it to me...
@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA ...
Bro little input here

I am not talking about who got net.centric capabilities first ... at this point of time both of us have it ... i am just saying that it is very difficult to jam net.centric platform ...

Your prove that mki and mirrage 2000 are better than blk 52

My proof is best platform of india is mki then why buying rafael ?

If your answer is china then rafale is no answer to j20