Buk-M2s, Pantsir-S1s and Pechora 2M unable to down IAF jets

[AMCA]

Our F16 are far more capable in jamming as compared to anything India has ...

Thats why we are not afraid of India's MKI ...

We are acquiring AESA for JF17 which is jam resistant ... However, currently we don't have appropriate answer to Rafael ...

The block of F-16's you've got is of no match to MKI. It simply cannot Jam anything MKI throws at you.

 

[The Accountant]

Short range/medium range SAM's can be net centric but can the Manpads be net centric too? I think the huge stockpile of Manpads of both countries need to upgraded or they'll be just duds against a modern jet with jamming equipment on board. Manpads can down a helicopter though as seen in syria.

thats what my point is syrian missiles are not that capable enough .. its not about high tech or Israel but about low tech of Syria which is not case with Pakistan ...

At the Kargil time

The block of F-16's you've got is of no match to MKI. It simply cannot Jam anything MKI throws at you.

And source of your assumption ?

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

rethinking on s400 is needed...
russian system can' t intercept at 40km, how about 400 km...
i thing we had talk over it on this forum that inplace of s400 , we should concentrate on barak8.

Hell please.

Do you know how S400 came up ? It was a regular IAF and Russian AF joint ops. Now know what India Russia joint exercises are, its not Indian Air force flying IAF aircrafts in Russia or vice versa. Its the visiting team exercising with the host by using the hosts equipment. It's like this how much of Russian hardware is sold to us.

Our team after flying the Russian upgrades of older Su27s and Mig31s were given access to Su35 and S400 in a bid to showcase the capabilities of both to seek sales. While the Su35 did impress, it was not worth purchase after the Su30MKI , but the S400 gave a shock.

After operating the Older S200 and S300VMs, which had issues, the capability of S400 was very very big to simply say no.

Then started a period of 5-6 years when Russia allowed exclusive simulated testings to an Indian team in addition to access to being a part of testing and deployments of the system in eastern Russia.

The people who selected S400, were no idiots. They did so after evaluating what French and Israel had on tables to be offered.

PDV/PAD/AAD, S400, A 200 km SAM under development , B8 and its ER version along with Akash and Spyder are to defend our skies.May be David's Sling derivative too, but no work force dedicated for it now.

Any rethinking means a billion lives in danger.

For those claiming F16s of PAF has an upper hand on MKI in case of EW. Know that there's something known as EL/L8222, EL/L8251 and ELT/568...

 

[AMCA]

And source of your assumption ?

The same source from which you made your assumption.

 

[Stannis Baratheon]

I dont know which Chinese or pakistani missile you fire from F-16,And information thta sourcecode is overwritten or pakistan is provided with source code,pls correct if i am wrong.Source is most welcome.

I think the Ra'ad cruise missile can be fired from the F-16.

 

[ravi gupta]

I think the Ra'ad cruise missile can be fired from the F-16.

What you are thinking is absolutely wrong,neither F-16 nor JF-17.

 

[vizier]

Firstly we need to understand ecm is not a silver bullet. It scores sometimes but it is not the ultimate solution to solely rely on. It can grant you a victory today but tomorrow as counter measures develop you can lose all your aircraft if you rely solely on ecm. It does not show that ground radars are not useful or airborne radars are not useful when the other guy boasts about its ecm but shows that you need to consider that situation and improve your systems accordingly.

Regarding Syrian case S400 is too far away from southern front. Although its range is enough to shoot down israeli aircraft it is not enough to catch planes either flying low over that long range or flying high and making a quick hit and run attack so there is no need for jamming in case of S400 stationed in Latakia. For Buk and S300 batteries possibly stationed in Damascus since they are high value assets for Syria they dont carry them to Golan heights. They have also used S200 batteries several times with some claims of hit but even doubtful claim it shows that it is more difficult to jam from longer ranges like jamming S200(obselete)-S300 from the israeli side as well. Mobile batteries are relatively short range and less jam resistant but mobility and at least 10-15km altitude to take out attacking aircraft would suit better for point defense in such frontline conditions like Tor, Pantsyr or similar systems. These systems should also employ a recording system like a black box to get the jamming signals to analyze and prepare for a future scenario when they are jammed or even get hit.

Regarding radars we see many powerful radars on display that can detect golf ball sized targets hundreds of kms away. But there is also the other side of the coin which is that radar can be detected by two times the distance and jammed or attacked from slightly closer if it does not use lpi measures. Jamming resistance and active defense is one option employed by S300 series. Another priority should be to see before being seen within maximum range so a 100km system is better if it is not localized and jammed by an air based system within that range than a 250+km system.

For shorad radars(pantsyr,tor,fm-90) there can be measures like FMCW that reduces peak power of the radar to reduce
its signature. Short range radars also dont need to radiate high power to take out targets within those limits as well.
For all types of radars there are stuff like pulse compression, scan pattern, adaptive beamforming, networked radars(handovering tracking to other radar after detection) and similar measures that can be researched and implemented for more effective sam systems. If it cant locate you it needs to rely on broadband jamming which can be detected by passive sensors(vera,kulchuga etc.)