Buk-M2s, Pantsir-S1s and Pechora 2M unable to down IAF jets

[Baloch Pakistani]

Syria's 9K33 Osas would however prove far less successful against Israeli Air Force raids into Syria, the number of which rapidly increased in the past years. These strikes, mainly targeted at weapon depots around Damascus, have so far met with little resistance from Syria due to heavy use of electronic countermeasures by Israel. In fact, even Syria's brand-new Buk-M2s, Pantsir-S1s and Pechora 2Ms have so far proved incapable of intercepting and shooting down Israeli aircraft.

http://spioenkop.blogspot.com/2016/10/hide-and-seek-story-of-jaish-al-islams.html

Since indian airforce is getting equipment from israel so it will also get difficult for our smaller systems to down an indian jet, let alone the shoulder fired missiles.

 

[The Accountant]

I doubt this is the reason ... Israel has capability of percision strike from very high altitude and therefore it is not possible for short-range missiles to counter such precision strike ... Without any airforce countering Israel is next to impossible .. it is similar to PAF attacks on militants in tribal areas .. they do have some MANPADS and anti aircraft but they are useless against high flying planes ...

In india pak scenario there will be air to air engagements and Pakistan do have medium range SAM and working on long range SAMs

 

[Baloch Pakistani]

I doubt this is the reason ... Israel has capability of percision strike from very high altitude and therefore it is not possible for short-range missiles to counter such precision strike ... Without any airforce countering Israel is next to impossible .. it is similar to PAF attacks on militants in tribal areas .. they do have some MANPADS and anti aircraft but they are useless against high flying planes ...

In india pak scenario there will be air to air engagements and Pakistan do have medium range SAM and working on long range SAMs

That's true but as you might know that americans were also impressed with the electronic jamming capabilities of mig 21's with israeli jammers. Pakistan lacks the level of jamming capabilities which israel might be providing india with, and if we do have these capabilities on our jets at that level then i'm not aware of it. We have some second tier jamming equipment but nothing at the elite level.

 

[The Accountant]

That's true but as you might know that americans were also impressed with the electronic jamming capabilities of mig 21's with israeli jammers. Pakistan lacks the level of jamming capabilities which israel might be providing india with, and if we do have these capabilities on our jets at that level then i'm not aware of it. We have some second tier jamming equipment but nothing at the elite level.

Our F16 are far more capable in jamming as compared to anything India has ...

Thats why we are not afraid of India's MKI ...

We are acquiring AESA for JF17 which is jam resistant ... However, currently we don't have appropriate answer to Rafael ...

 

[$@rJen]

I doubt this is the reason ... Israel has capability of percision strike from very high altitude and therefore it is not possible for short-range missiles to counter such precision strike ... Without any airforce countering Israel is next to impossible .. it is similar to PAF attacks on militants in tribal areas .. they do have some MANPADS and anti aircraft but they are useless against high flying planes ...

In india pak scenario there will be air to air engagements and Pakistan do have medium range SAM and working on long range SAMs

No.. IDF jets do use Eectro counter measures against Russian weapons in Syria... they did use it to blind radars and missiles of BUK-m2..
They did use EW against Russian Anti air and anti access areas and got access to those areas...

 

[The Accountant]

No.. IDF jets do use Eectro counter measures against Russian weapons in Syria... they did use it to blind radars and missiles of BUK-m2..
They did use EW against Russian Anti air and anti access areas and got access to those areas...

Ok great then what are your comments on S-400 ? do Israeli systems will able to blilnd them as well ?

Now suddenly S-400 will become invincible as India is buying it ...

You Indians are so disillusioned and double standard that whatever you have or trying to have becomes world no.1 ...

Syria is unable to defend itself from anything ,, it is not even able to engage US non-fighter aircraft delivering weapons to rebels simply because they don't have capability ... Now tell me what EW system support NATO's support planes are using as they are freely distributing weapons to rebels and Syria can't do a damn about it ...

 

[$@rJen]

Ok great then what are your comments on S-400 ? do Israeli systems will able to blilnd them as well ?

Now suddenly S-400 will become invincible as India is buying it ...

You Indians are so disillusioned and double standard that whatever you have or trying to have becomes world no.1 ...

Syria is unable to defend itself from anything ,, it is not even able to engage US non-fighter aircraft delivering weapons to rebels simply because they don't have capability ... Now tell me what EW system support NATO's support planes are using as they are freely distributing weapons to rebels and Syria can't do a damn about it ...

There's a high possiblity of jamming them as well... but you also have to come within the distance..

Stop it.. because some indians claim dont throw everything on india and indians.... some of the pakistanis did claim to shoot down f35, rafale and mki with JF17... do i use those jokes on u!??
S400 can be jammed but you've to cross other radars as well.. s400 will not be deployed in the front line. We've short, medium distance radars then the long range..before that you need to cross IAF jets too..

There's no syrian AF in Syria.. its very few plane with few pilots.....
Most of the strategic skies are defended by the Russians.. and raids and interception taken care by Russian AF..

 

[Signalian]

I doubt this is the reason ... Israel has capability of percision strike from very high altitude and therefore it is not possible for short-range missiles to counter such precision strike ...

BUK M2 is not short range. Its missile 9M38/9M317 can reach altitude of 80,000 feet(25 Km) and distance of 40-50 Km.

 

[The Accountant]

There's a high possiblity of jamming them as well... but you also have to come within the distance..

Stop it.. because some indians claim dont throw everything on india and indians.... some of the pakistanis did claim to shoot down f35, rafale and mki... do i use those jokes on u!??
S400 can be jammed but you've to cross other radars as well.. s400 will not be deployed in the front line. We've short, medium distance radars then the long range..before that you need to cross IAF jets too..

There's no syrian AF in Syria.. its very few plane with few pilots.....
Most of the strategic skies are defended by the Russians.. and raids and interception taken care by Russian AF..

Ok good to see that there some sane Indians members on pdf as well .. Sorry to respond like this as most of the time Indians are here for troll and not for technical discussion...

I agree that theoretically every system is prone to jamming ... although difficult but S400 is difficult to jam ... but I maintain my instance that in case of Syria ,,, unsuccessful air defence is due to capabilities of Syria and not because of invincible tech of Israel ...

For example if tomorrow Pakistan decides to air strike in Afghanistan then will they be able to defend them on their own? They do have MANPADs, some other defensive systems as well ... However, they will be sitting duck unless USA intervenes directly ...

Similarly Russia is not interfering with Israel and Syria do not have capability to engage Israel ... I do agree capabilities of Israel in electronic warfare are marvellous but not capable of jaming Pakistan's assets in Pak India scenario things are not that simple as Pakistan has already moved to netcentric warfare and a single aircraft of Pakistan is linked to ground stations and AWACS so jamming that all is next to impossible with current tech of India or even Israel ...

 

[Malik Alashter]

Its political rather than technical

Syrian can't go to war with Israel.

 

[Signalian]

Syria's 9K33 Osas would however prove far less successful against Israeli Air Force raids into Syria, the number of which rapidly increased in the past years. These strikes, mainly targeted at weapon depots around Damascus, have so far met with little resistance from Syria due to heavy use of electronic countermeasures by Israel. In fact, even Syria's brand-new Buk-M2s, Pantsir-S1s and Pechora 2Ms have so far proved incapable of intercepting and shooting down Israeli aircraft.

http://spioenkop.blogspot.com/2016/10/hide-and-seek-story-of-jaish-al-islams.html

Since indian airforce is getting equipment from israel so it will also get difficult for our smaller systems to down an indian jet, let alone the shoulder fired missiles.

After reading the blog and watching the pics, it seems training in handling the weapon system could be a reason for unsuccessful attempts to engage IAF jets.

 

[abc123xyx]

rethinking on s400 is needed...
russian system can' t intercept at 40km, how about 400 km...
i thing we had talk over it on this forum that inplace of s400 , we should concentrate on barak8.

 

[$@rJen]

Ok good to see that there some sane Indians members on pdf as well .. Sorry to respond like this as most of the time Indians are here for troll and not for technical discussion...

I agree that theoretically every system is prone to jamming ... although difficult but S400 is difficult to jam ... but I maintain my instance that in case of Syria ,,, unsuccessful air defence is due to capabilities of Syria and not because of invincible tech of Israel ...

For example if tomorrow Pakistan decides to air strike in Afghanistan then will they be able to defend them on their own? They do have MANPADs, some other defensive systems as well ... However, they will be sitting duck unless USA intervenes directly ...

Similarly Russia is not interfering with Israel and Syria do not have capability to engage Israel ... I do agree capabilities of Israel in electronic warfare are marvellous but not capable of jaming Pakistan's assets in Pak India scenario things are not that simple as Pakistan has already moved to netcentric warfare and a single aircraft of Pakistan is linked to ground stations and AWACS so jamming that all is next to impossible with current tech of India or even Israel ...

Afghan can't defend because they've nothing while Syria is guarded by russia.
Russian jets and IDF jets did encounter in Syrian skies.. but both of them avoided the fight.. and there are uninformed news about russians leting IDF to strike targets in Syria if those are the weapons transfers to hezbollah

But on occasions IDF does intervenes russian A2/AD skies... does jam their weapon systems some of which are used by Syrian forces... most of the weapon storage bound to go for hezbollah are guarded by both Syrian and hezbollah fighters/air defence..

Yes... both india and pakistan has the capabilities to jam each other. While you guys are just moving to netcentric warfare india has already moved years ago and testes these capabilities in many exercises..

Come on bro... there's nothing next to impossible in indo-pak cenerio..
Israeli systems has the capabilities to jam anything that's present there...almost evrything.... israel resta their systems against the western weapons.. there's highly possible to jam paf assets by india since all these techs are avilable with India..and not to mention the spectra suit thats going to come with rafale...
PAF has the capability to jam indian assets as well but when and where these capabilities would be used!!?? We may never know

 

[The Accountant]

Afghan can't defend because they've nothing while Syria is guarded by russia.
Russian jets and IDF jets did encounter in Syrian skies.. but both of them avoided the fight.. and there are uninformed news about russians leting IDF to strike targets in Syria if those are the weapons transfers to hezbollah

But on occasions IDF does intervenes russian A2/AD skies... does jam their weapon systems some of which are used by Syrian forces... most of the weapon storage bound to go for hezbollah are guarded by both Syrian and hezbollah fighters/air defence..

Yes... both india and pakistan has the capabilities to jam each other. While you guys are just moving to netcentric warfare india has already moved years ago and testes these capabilities in many exercises..

Come on bro... there's nothing next to impossible in indo-pak cenerio..
Israeli systems has the capabilities to jam anything that's present there...almost evrything.... israel resta their systems against the western weapons.. there's highly possible to jam paf assets by india since all these techs are avilable with India..and not to mention the spectra suit thats going to come with rafale...
PAF has the capability to jam indian assets as well but when and where these capabilities would be used!!?? We may never know

My bro your information is outdated ... Pakistan both air and naval assets are already working on net-centric environment ... We already have functional Link 17 just like Nato ... Even our F16 and JF17 can share data with our Chinese ships ....

Sir you are suggesting that Israel is jamming Russian equipment whereas Russians are giving them free hand to do whatever they want in Syria ... Are you that naive to believe this stupid story ... It is two way cooperation between Russia and Israel in Syria ... both are complementing each other ... There is no electronic attacks on russian AF by Israel ...

Can you please present your source of Israel capability of jamming anything ??? Kindly recheck your knowledge ... In today's netcentric environment when adversary is tracked by one, locked by second and fired by third platform you are advocating jamming capabilities of Israel ... Pakistan has already achieved that capability through induction of JF17 thunder, karakorum eagle and saab eireye ...

 

[CriticalThought]

Points to be noted regarding jamming.

1. I don't put a pence of trust in Americans. In a Pak/India war, I would consider the F16s compromised EXCEPT if every sub-system has been thoroughly analyzed for backdoors and cleared. Even the ones upgraded by turkey are suspect if any American sourced system is present.

2. That said, as far as our AWACS go, they have been rebuilt from scratch.

Now jamming takes place by emitting a large amount of power within specified frequency band which garbles weak signals. The defender has many tools at disposal. Modern error correcting codes can guarantee data recovery even at 100% loss of original data, albeit at the cost of significantly reduced data rate. Also any jammer is by its very nature susceptible to HARM missiles. Even a layman like me can see all this. I am quite sure the Pak armed forces have many more surprises up their sleeves