Bruce Riedel: Military Aid is bribe to Pakistan Army

[xyxmt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1633475896697843713

Generals were safe back then as public were told lies about their unparallel heroism and they scaped in the safety of west Pakistan...how will they be saved this time...i see lots of blood on uniform this time around.

 

[That Guy]

Not just military aid, but aid in general is a bribe. It is meant to buy influence and favors from the recipient.

Aid is never given for free, there are always strings attached.

 

[Jango]

I think its not about a free for all because a majority of the members here represent PTI supporters and they all come from a section of the middle class which has been pro-military from the get go but now its an odd situation of “hell hath no fury”…

Late to the party here, but I do believe that the true fury of the middle class has not yet been seen.

Jis din yeh sab log, as well as the lower middle class and working class comes out on the streets, it will be chaos.

Online statements, articles, media pressure only does so much. Once things spill over onto the streets, then that's a different ball game.

Let's hope that it does not come to that. Personally, I don't think it will, ham logon main woh genes hi nhn hain.

 

[SQ8]

Late to the party here, but I do believe that the true fury of the middle class has not yet been seen.

Jis din yeh sab log, as well as the lower middle class and working class comes out on the streets, it will be chaos.

Online statements, articles, media pressure only does so much. Once things spill over onto the streets, then that's a different ball game.

Let's hope that it does not come to that. Personally, I don't think it will, ham logon main woh genes hi nhn hain.

Faiz’s Kuttay was written for a reason - the crowd that lives in the lands of Pakistan is incapable of mass movements and especially violent revolution

 

[Thevilone]

Rent an army

https://twitter.com/x/status/1633442360045576194

Bruce Riedel is one of the best brains in CIA, a highly respected individual who is not afraid to speak his mind. He has previously written an article featured on the CIA website regarding the massacre of Palestinians conducted by Pakistani army https://www.cia.gov/static/a0e9e907ebef070b8d13a714867f1e5b/Black-September-Jordan.pdf Pakistan may talk about Palestine when it suits them, but when king of Jordan threw a little money at their face Pak army slaughtered 40,000 Palestinian. Pakistani army has nothing to do with Islam, it slaughters and rapes innocent Muslims if the price is right. It's a private contractor who will fight for anyone who gives them cash. It was USA and Kings of Jordan, KSA in the past; it is China now. Pak Army will find a new master in the future.

The man leading this massacre was a young Zia-ul-Haq. King of Jordan wrote a letter to PM Bhutto praising the young officer's brutal efficiency. This resulted in Zia rising the ranks and becoming Army Chief of Pakistan.

Remembering the Pakistani dictator accused of 'slaughtering' Palestinians

Among experts dispatched by Pakistan to train Jordan's army was Mohammed Zia-u-Haq

www.theweek.in

 

[IceCold]

I don't think it will, ham logon main woh genes hi nhn hain.

Bardasht he bari ha. Bijli 100 rupee unit be ho gai to kuch nahi hona. Petrol ko he dekh lain. Sara aam logon to utha ker police custody main qatal kia ja raha ha, is sa phela model town be lahore main hua tha, na tab qoum jagi na aj.

This resulted in Zia rising the ranks and becoming Army Chief of Pakistan.

And this same guy toppled Bhutto's government and hanged him.

 

[Jango]

Bardasht he bari ha. Bijli 100 rupee unit be ho gai to kuch nahi hona. Petrol ko he dekh lain. Sara aam logon to utha ker police custody main qatal kia ja raha ha, is sa phela model town be lahore main hua tha, na tab qoum jagi na aj.

The Americans had a moment of wakening after George Floyd, aur idhr 15 banday mar deti hai police and not a peep.

 

[Thevilone]

Bardasht he bari ha. Bijli 100 rupee unit be ho gai to kuch nahi hona. Petrol ko he dekh lain. Sara aam logon to utha ker police custody main qatal kia ja raha ha, is sa phela model town be lahore main hua tha, na tab qoum jagi na aj.


And this same guy toppled Bhutto's government and hanged him.

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/sna...nt-bite-only-neighbours-hillary-to-pak-573412 Ghar ko aag lag gayi ghar ke chiraag se!!
The only effective part of Pak Army was ISPR. I like to call it Ministry of Propaganda. They managed to convince it's own people that Pak Army was Islamic and pure while drinking whiskey, conducting orgies and mujras and slaughtering Muslims using tax-payer money.

https://images.dawn.com/news/1186478 Pakistani actress Neelo tried to commit suicide after she was kidnapped and forced to "dance" for Shah of Iran. Everyone knows it was much more than dance, she was gang-raped and there was nothing the pool soul could do about it.

 

[Mav3rick]

Similar tactics used against Egypt, they give over $1bn in military aid every year to keep General Sisi inline.

If you look at both countries, they have large populations, sit in strategic areas in the world and have strong militaries. Also both countries going through economic issues, any sort of aid makes one an addict, better to get rid of it and become self sufficient asap.

Only difference being, the addicts are in love with the bribe whereas those demanding that we get rid of the addiction have no link or interest in it. Civilians will always demand that we do away with bribes from foreign forces but matter of fact is that the bribing masters would rather just deal with 1 person and bribe a small section as opposed to the entire Pakistan.

 

[IceCold]

Ghar ko aag lag gayi ghar ke chiraag se

I hardly agree with an Indian but this line of yours is 100 % correct., We lost East Pakistan due to this.

 

[Skimming]

Generals were safe back then as public were told lies about their unparallel heroism and they scaped in the safety of west Pakistan...how will they be saved this time...i see lots of blood on uniform this time around.

You have grudge because you were rejected in ISSB.

 

[Liquidmetal]

Rent an army

https://twitter.com/x/status/1633442360045576194

 

[SaadH]

Bruce Riedel is one of the best brains in CIA, a highly respected individual who is not afraid to speak his mind. He has previously written an article featured on the CIA website regarding the massacre of Palestinians conducted by Pakistani army https://www.cia.gov/static/a0e9e907ebef070b8d13a714867f1e5b/Black-September-Jordan.pdf Pakistan may talk about Palestine when it suits them, but when king of Jordan threw a little money at their face Pak army slaughtered 40,000 Palestinian. Pakistani army has nothing to do with Islam, it slaughters and rapes innocent Muslims if the price is right. It's a private contractor who will fight for anyone who gives them cash. It was USA and Kings of Jordan, KSA in the past; it is China now. Pak Army will find a new master in the future.

The man leading this massacre was a young Zia-ul-Haq. King of Jordan wrote a letter to PM Bhutto praising the young officer's brutal efficiency. This resulted in Zia rising the ranks and becoming Army Chief of Pakistan.

Remembering the Pakistani dictator accused of 'slaughtering' Palestinians

Among experts dispatched by Pakistan to train Jordan's army was Mohammed Zia-u-Haq

www.theweek.in

That BS story was debunked by Pakistani diplomat stationed in Jordan at that time, who was a PPP jiyala and no fan of Zia.

Ziaul Haq: personal reminiscences

Tayyab Siddiqui

It was a crisp October afternoon when the PIA plane on which I travelled touched down at Amman. I was embarking on my diplomatic career with first posting to Jordan in 1969. On arrival, I was received by an Embassy official and ushered into the VIP Lounge. The Ambassador along with three army officers greeted me warmly. I felt elated at this high level of protocol, but soon the ego balloon burst when I discovered that the Ambassador was leaving for Aligarh to be with his ailing octogenarian father, Nawab of Chatari, and the army brass was there not to greet me, but rather to see him off. I was introduced to the army officers. All three were brigadiers: Ziaul Haq, Iftikhar Rana and Yasin. This was my first meeting with Ziaul Haq, which soon blossomed into close friendship and mutual trust that lasted until Zia’s last moments. Amman, built on seven hills like Rome, was a peaceful little town. The fateful June ‘67 Arab-Israeli war had deeply scarred the Arab psyche. Jordan had lost half of its territory. The feeling of shame at their comprehensive defeat was palpable. Pakistan had sent a small contingent to train the Jordanian army. The training mission consisted of about 20 officers, drawn from both the army and air force, and was led by Major General Nawazish Ali. The air force team’s leader was Anwar Shamim, who later became Chief of Pakistan Air Force. The June ‘67 war had resulted in a heavy exodus of Palestinians to Jordan. The refugee camps spread over the entire Jabal Hussain were seething with angry young Palestinians. The emergence of Qadafi in Libya in September 1969 and his revolutionary rhetoric against Israel revived the faith in Arab destiny. The battle of Karameh, a small border town, saw the first direct engagement between IDF and Palestinians on March 21, 1968, when a reprisal attack was resisted by PLO fighters. Israel lost 28 soldiers, 90 were wounded and they retreated, abandoning 18 tanks. Fatah’s losses amounted to 93 killed and “many” injured. The battle of Karameh changed the course of Middle Eastern history, with Palestinian fighters, the “fedayeen”, becoming the heroes of the Arab world. The Palestinian youth were brimming with confidence and bristling with resentment at the failure of Arab potentates. President Nasser had lost much of his glamour with the emergence of Gaddafi, who opened his coffers for the Palestinians and captured their imagination with wild denunciation of Arab monarchs and Israel. Totting guns on their shoulders, the young fedayeen showed total contempt for Jordanians. They provoked and humiliated army officers by setting road blocs and physical checks. They became a law unto themselves, totally oblivious of the consequences. Resistance groups among Palestinians sprouted, each with a separate ideology and leadership. Yasser Arafat, lovingly called ‘Abu Ammar,’ headed the moderate Fatah, while radical splinter groups were led by George Habash, Naef Hawatmeh and Ahmad Jibrail. Palestinian youth were disenchanted with Arab leadership, in particular the monarchs, whom they regarded as corrupt, inefficient and lackeys of the West. Radical groups, such as the PFLP and PDFLP, were indoctrinated, supported and sustained by the Soviet Union. They believed that the Palestinian revolution wouldn’t realize until the corrupt monarchies in the region were done away with. The relationship between Arab rulers and Palestinians was thus one of mutual fear and hatred. Arafat believed that for the liberation struggle to succeed, it had to work with frontline Arab states, even though they were ready to make peace with Israel. Habash favoured a revolutionary way and believed that the revolution had to begin in Jordan by provoking a confrontation to bring down King Hussain. Fatah’s policy was to confine the violence to the land of Palestine. The PFLP did not agree. It started a terror campaign against Jewish interests inside and outside the Middle East, beginning with an attack on an Israeli passenger plane at the Beirut Airport. On 6 September 1970, the PFLP staged a spectacular hijack operation, involving four international airlines – PAN-AM, Swiss Air, BOAC and TWA. They landed at Dawson’s field, a strip of desert in Jordan. An attempt to hijack an El-AL plane was foiled by Israeli security and hijacker Leila Khalid was arrested in London. The PFLP demanded her release, and when their demand was refused, hijacked a BOAC airliner, which they also brought to Dawson’s field. Finally, she was released along with 600 passengers but the airplanes were blown up. The hijacking intensified clashes between the fedayeen and King Hussain’s forces, who were losing patience with the arrogance and foolhardiness of the fedyaeen. The security situation deteriorated by the day. Fatal clashes between the Jordian army and fedayeen became routine. In June, Amman had been declared a non-family station and the families of the members of military mission were sent back home. I shifted to Zia’s house and lived there for nearly four months, until I was transferred to Beirut in June 1970. Soon, the military mission was also recalled to Pakistan in view of the developing Bangladesh crisis. Weary of the fedayeen’s contemptible behaviour, King Hussain’s generals mounted a ruthless onslaught to drive the fedayeen out of Jordan completely in September 1970. Thousands were massacred by Hussain’s troops in what came to be known as ‘Black September’. Pakistan’s involvement in the killings of Palestinians and Brigadier Zia’s role in the events of Black September has been the staple of fanciful reports about how Zia personally led the campaign. These reports have been highly exaggerated. Pakistan’s army contingent in Amman comprised of not more than 20 officials of all ranks as mentioned earlier. In June 1970, an ACK regiment arrived in Amman at the request of King Hussain to protect Jordan’s air space against violations by Israeli and Syrian planes, but they simply had no combat role or capacity. It may also be mentioned that such military training missions were also assigned to Syria, Iraq and Libya, purely for training purposes. Jordan was not an exception. The presence of the Pakistan training mission against this backdrop soon pulled it into the vortex of Arab intrigues and conspiracies. Its presence was magnified and exaggerated by vested groups. Our ambassador in Delhi had cautioned us against the surreptitious induction of Indian army officers belonging to RAW in PLO and PFLP ranks. Their assignment was to sow doubts and misgivings regarding Pakistan among Palestinians. The vicious propaganda regarding Zia’s role was certainly their handiwork. It was September 2 when I received a call from Brigadier Zia informing me that the King had asked him to take over the command of the 3rd armoured division, stationed in Irbid. Syria has moved with an armoured brigade into Jordan. Major-General Qasim Motta, the Jordanian commander, had deserted and Zia was asked to take over. It was a coincidence that Ambassador Chittari and Major General Nawazish both were out of Jordan at this time. I was the chargé d’affaires and Zia, the senior most army officer. Zia told the King that he would need political clearance from the embassy before he responded to the King’s command. I told Zia that the contingent’s mandate was not to fight and hence I would need permission from Islamabad. Telephone connections were dead. There were no cipher links either. The only communication link was telex based on Morse code. After a few hours’ effort, I established contact with Sultan M. Khan, the Foreign Secretary, who declined to give any instructions and advised me to contact the military brass. Finally I reached Mr Ghias Uddin, then Secretary General Defence. To my utter horror, without a moment’s hesitance, Ghias gave me the green signal. When I tried to explain the implications, I was cut short with a brief sentence: “We had Istikhara, Hashmite Kingdom’s star is ascendant. Go ahead. Follow the King’s commands.” That the foreign defence policy of Pakistan was formulated not on a dispassionate analysis of the situation but on the dubious religious invocation still amazes me. Brigadier Zia accordingly took over the command in Irbid, but before any major military operation, the Syrians under intense pressure from the US and Israel, withdrew. This was the sum total of Pakistan’s involvement or Zia’s role in the alleged massacre of the Palestinians.

 

[AA_]

I have really debated whether I should provide my take on the ground realities or not. This forum is now becoming full of uthia idiots and Indian vermins, it seems like a waste of time. As I have some time between flights so I will give it a shot. It’s a very superficial view and should not been seen as an in-depth analysis. A few high lights:

- There is no indication on the streets that the country is nearing default. There are the same traffic jams, very little load shedding, no shortage of essentials I.e. petrol etc. or even imported items, shopping centers and restaurants are full, there are signs of real estate/construction boom. Civic services and public transportation are working fine by our standards. In fact I was surprised at the number and diversity of high-end restaurants and stores/shopping centers. Even the poor neighborhoods showed a lot of economic activity like small workshops and factories making everything imaginable. I will be first to accept that people are struggling due to inflation and maybe there will be delayed impact of the current situation. I personally feel that we don’t have a wealth issue in Pakistan, we have balance of payments issue due to bad policies and planning, and corruption.

- Spoke to some current policy makers. Things will get worst before they get better. The PDM government is delaying the IMF deal because they feel that there is still significant support for PTI in the military and PDM is being made to do the dirty job and that PTI will come back with a likely two third majority. The Army is itself in a bind as they feel cornered. Informed people also think that the economy has enough innate supply and demand that if the foreign exchange reserve issue is fixed, it can make a quick comeback. So those (including our neighbors to the east) waiting for imminent collapse of the country will be disappointed.

- The IMF deal is more political than anything else and is being used to extract political concessions. There is some indications although nobody would say that in so many word that there are definitely demands on the defense budget but also possibly on the nuclear program. If IK wins the elections and doesn’t control his mouth the nuclear program will be at risk.

- spoke to some people who worked very closely with IK in his government. The general consensus is that he was a big disappointment. He never came to work before 11.30/noon. He had a lot difficulty understanding basic concepts of running a government, administration and governance. He tried running the Government like positioning fielders on a pitch. He totally lacks deep thinking. He has read a few books and endlessly keep repeating the same things over and over.

- we all hear this uthia anti-establishment narrative. It represents very shallow understanding of the current situation. IK is not only up against leadership of the establishment but also against US and their proxies Saudi Arabia and UAE. He doesn’t have any friends in Turkey and China either as one time or another he has pi$$ed them off with his thoughtless talk. As far US is concerned over the last 20 years they have or have tried to change regimes in all Muslim countries if they were not in aligned with their requirements either through direct military intervention, civil unrest, coups, court conspiracies etc. The only two countries where they failed is Iran and Afghanistan. So what has happened in Pakistan should not be a surprise to anyone. So all this IK talk about free foreign policy and independence and so forth is just idealistic in fact naive talk especially if you have a serious balance of payments issues. If IK comes into power, which he most probably will, and does not control his mouth we will most probably lose our nukes orchestrated through another balance of payments crisis or even worse. This is the reason the army does not trust him. For the Army PDM is a better of the two evils. Many are seeing him as an existentialist threat to the country. When I read the comments from the uthias on this forum, I am beginning to have my own doubts about him although I still support him.

Thank you for your reply. I think it's better to explain our thought process instead of getting upset at other posters for differing views.
What you said isn't technically wrong. IK is indeed very incendiary. His words have a way of cutting deep wounds. I could see why though. Our political process and politician act like children. They lack the maturity to deal with a complex world. We are much harder on each other than we are on the enemy, and we have plenty near and far. A few of them lurk on this forum pushing their ideology onto us, attacking the very basis of ours with remarks such as "Ummah Chummah" "Your ancestors were hindu, pagans, etc" "Other Muslims don't consider you Muslims" etc etc

What you wrote confirms my and most of the folks here's suspicion. The Mil-Establishment is a bunch of cowards and literal mental slaves to the West, and the majority of Pakistanis are right to be upset and demand blood from them. The internal cowards and traitors knew the US is not happy with the country and is looking for ways to hurt them. Instead of shoring up the national divide and unifying everyone under one banner, the traitors and cowards decided they can't stand up for their country or people. The traitors decided to placate the US by taking a slipper and beating themselves in order to avoid being beaten by an entity they fear the most. An entity whose mind is already made up to support the main ideological enemy of Pakistan by providing them Visas, Apaches, F-21s, Drones, and UN-backed resolutions.
IK was the perfect leader to get behind and play hardball with the Americans. The cowards and traitors decided they rather accept scraps on the floor instead of demanding a seat at the table.
Thank you for the insight into the internal enemy mindset. It's absolutely beyond doubt that these traitors and cowards will not fight for Pakistan. Neither against the hordes in the East nor against a Power that's 15k miles away.
It's imperative that IK comes back with a 2/3 majority or higher, and performs a complete purge of this system, so the cowards and traitors do not infect future generations with cowardice.
I recognize the US as the premier power of the world and our major trading partner, but it ends there. Instead of applying pressure on them indirectly by threatening the enemy next door Achilles heel, his economy which oh the US very much depends on for Tech purposes, the traitorous wretches you passionately defend sell Pakistan for pennies.
Instead of hitting the enemy on his home turf (like he has been doing to us), the traitors begged for peace.
It all makes sense now, after that massive attack in Balouchstan in early 2022, the cowards decided they couldn't handle the heat anymore they serve the enemy, the only government in the last 50 years that had the welfare of all Pakistan in mind as a peace offering. I and many others noticed the intensity of the attacks mysteriously lessen after the NVC.
Thank you for providing the mindset of who the brave sons of Pakistan are dealing with. I pray and hope that IK comes back and cleans this system throughout, and end the cowardly behavior.

 

[Bossman]

Thank you for your reply. I think it's better to explain our thought process instead of getting upset at other posters for differing views.
What you said isn't technically wrong. IK is indeed very incendiary. His words have a way of cutting deep wounds. I could see why though. Our political process and politician act like children. They lack the maturity to deal with a complex world. We are much harder on each other than we are on the enemy, and we have plenty near and far. A few of them lurk on this forum pushing their ideology onto us, attacking the very basis of ours with remarks such as "Ummah Chummah" "Your ancestors were hindu, pagans, etc" "Other Muslims don't consider you Muslims" etc etc

What you wrote confirms my and most of the folks here's suspicion. The Mil-Establishment is a bunch of cowards and literal mental slaves to the West, and the majority of Pakistanis are right to be upset and demand blood from them. The internal cowards and traitors knew the US is not happy with the country and is looking for ways to hurt them. Instead of shoring up the national divide and unifying everyone under one banner, the traitors and cowards decided they can't stand up for their country or people. The traitors decided to placate the US by taking a slipper and beating themselves in order to avoid being beaten by an entity they fear the most. An entity whose mind is already made up to support the main ideological enemy of Pakistan by providing them Visas, Apaches, F-21s, Drones, and UN-backed resolutions.
IK was the perfect leader to get behind and play hardball with the Americans. The cowards and traitors decided they rather accept scraps on the floor instead of demanding a seat at the table.
Thank you for the insight into the internal enemy mindset. It's absolutely beyond doubt that these traitors and cowards will not fight for Pakistan. Neither against the hordes in the East nor against a Power that's 15k miles away.
It's imperative that IK comes back with a 2/3 majority or higher, and performs a complete purge of this system, so the cowards and traitors do not infect future generations with cowardice.
I recognize the US as the premier power of the world and our major trading partner, but it ends there. Instead of applying pressure on them indirectly by threatening the enemy next door Achilles heel, his economy which oh the US very much depends on for Tech purposes, the traitorous wretches you passionately defend sell Pakistan for pennies.
Instead of hitting the enemy on his home turf (like he has been doing to us), the traitors begged for peace.
It all makes sense now, after that massive attack in Balouchstan in early 2022, the cowards decided they couldn't handle the heat anymore they serve the enemy, the only government in the last 50 years that had the welfare of all Pakistan in mind as a peace offering. I and many others noticed the intensity of the attacks mysteriously lessen after the NVC.
Thank you for providing the mindset of who the brave sons of Pakistan are dealing with. I pray and hope that IK comes back and cleans this system throughout, and end the cowardly behavior.

if the military leaders are cowards than IK is a Don Quixote. I don’t think he has what it takes to be great leader. Unfiltered talk and statements without understanding the unintended consequences is not helping IK or Pakistan. BTW the issue is not only the west but our closest allies like Saudi Arabia. You can have the luxury of anti western rhetoric when you have 200 billion dollars in reserves.