BREAKING : U.S. Seeks to Seize Iranian Fuel Bound for Venezuela

[Shawnee]

Pathetic think tank system in PDF:
a word salad of unproven claims, childish avatar, and overuse of smileys.
.......

 

[LeGenD]

It amazes me how many Pakistanis worship the US....even after all the bombings of Pakistan...truely sad

This is flamebaiting.

Having a realistic take of things is not to be mistaken for "worship."

WE do not underestimate war-fighting capabilities of select countries and the list includes USA, China, Russia and Japan. In fact, I would say that a number of countries are capable of surprises in a war.

If somebody is taller then me; he is taller then me - no argument. If somebody is a heavy-weight champion, and I am not, I won't boast about my capabilities in comparison unless I prove myself in the ring.

Simple logic and math.

WE have learned to fight on our terms actually; this is why WE have managed to protect our interests in Afghanistan for so many years.

If WE challenge a superpower on its strong points, WE are toast.

 

[Dariush the Great]

This is flamebaiting.

Having a realistic take of things is not to be mistaken for "worship."

WE do not underestimate war-fighting capabilities of select countries and the list includes USA, China, Russia and Japan. In fact, I would say that a number of countries are capable of surprises in a war.

If somebody is taller then me; he is taller then me - no argument. If somebody is a heavy-weight champion, and I am not, I won't boast about my capabilities in comparison unless I prove myself in the ring.

Simple logic and math.

WE have learned to fight on our terms actually; this is why WE have managed to protect our interests in Afghanistan for so many years.

If WE challenge a superpower on its strong points, WE are toast.

good luck to Pakistan

 

[LeGenD]

good luck to Pakistan

Please be more specific.

 

[Ich]

funny that a senior member like philosopher washed that guy and hung him to dry with pure facts.
who the hell made that guy ''think tank analyst'' ? LMAO

There are a lot of this sort here.

 

[925boy]

Aircraft carriers maybe

Aircraft carriers are already history. They have to stay close enough to launch jets, and that puts them in danger range. Same thing is happening currently off the Persian Gulf and South China sea. All it takes is 1 missile to connect well.thats it...dont you understand that all the surface ships defenses cant stop all missiles from hitting the AC? especially in closed quarters like the Persian Gulf?

You started your post with Iran is going to destroy all US bases in the region.

Yes, can you give us you best evidence its not possible? Iran has made its calculations and plans to do so, so if you choose not to believe it, thats your fault and naivety. PAC-3s arent doing good AD work and you and i know it.

It tells me you and your ilk are seriously out of touch with reality.

This is trolling, because you arent making any point, but you sound like you are.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

They have to stay close enough to launch jets,

These LRASMs have Long ranges too. US Jet doesn't need to come close to Irani Frigates.

 

[raptor22]

This is flamebaiting.

Having a realistic take of things is not to be mistaken for "worship."

WE do not underestimate war-fighting capabilities of select countries and the list includes USA, China, Russia and Japan. In fact, I would say that a number of countries are capable of surprises in a war.

If somebody is taller then me; he is taller then me - no argument. If somebody is a heavy-weight champion, and I am not, I won't boast about my capabilities in comparison unless I prove myself in the ring.

Simple logic and math.

WE have learned to fight on our terms actually; this is why WE have managed to protect our interests in Afghanistan for so many years.

If WE challenge a superpower on its strong points, WE are toast.

So what would you do if a so-called super power tells you to give up half of your lands? would you challenge it or accept it?

 

[LeGenD]

So what would you do if a so-called super power tells you to give up half of your lands? would you challenge it or accept it?

There are RED lines of any country.

Driven into a corner or pressed hard enough, any country would put up a fight. What becomes of it is another story.

Nothing wrong with having a realistic take of things in personal capacity. Statements such as WE will utterly destroy every military base across the Middle East no matter their respective defenses as well as capabilities of their respective hosts (type and scale of the defenses significantly vary across military bases as well as military capability of their respective hosts), sink any aircraft carrier no matter its respective defenses and escorts (type and scale of defenses which are uncommon in naval platforms worldwide), conquer this country or that country, come across being ill-informed and immature from members of (any) regional power - this is not a realistic take of the military capability of a superpower but a one-dimensional view of things. Actual war is a far more complex affair for the belligerents and its outcome can be much different for the lesser belligerent than being originally anticipated in THEORY as was the case with Iraq in 1991 and Yugoslavia in 1999 respectively. Every country cannot be Vietnam or such. Vietnam wasn't doing well in the war either and suffered numerous setbacks including the disastrous Tet Offensive; they were merely living through all manner of punishment dished out to them until Americans gave up (a political decision because American public questioned the validity of this war from the start).

Even superpowers such as China or Russia do not want to escalate things with USA beyond the point-of-no-return. Both are subject to sanctions of USA as of late which does not create a climate of normalcy between them.

Iranians are brave no doubt, but many have unrealistic take of things as well. This might be a mindset or something, but come on.

Now; going as far as to declare members of a particular country as being American worshipers, is wrong and flamebaiting. No Pakistani 'worship' USA or any other foreign country to my knowledge. Any superpower will receive hype from various circles around the world; this is it. WE are not hyping a country for the sake of loving it, but due to its apparent merits and capabilities.

WE are not mocking Iran per se. Understand the difference.

 

[raptor22]

There are RED lines of any country.

Driven into a corner or pressed hard enough, any country would put up a fight. What becomes of it is another story.

Nothing wrong with having a realistic take of things in personal capacity. Statements such as WE will utterly destroy every military base across the Middle East no matter their respective defenses as well as capabilities of their respective hosts (type and scale of the defenses significantly vary across military bases as well as military capability of their respective hosts), sink any aircraft carrier no matter its respective defenses and escorts (type and scale of defenses which are uncommon in naval platforms worldwide), conquer this country or that country, come across being ill-informed and immature from members of (any) regional power - this is not a realistic take of the military capability of a superpower but a one-dimensional view of things. Actual war is a far more complex affair for the belligerents and its outcome can be much different for the lesser belligerent than being originally anticipated in THEORY as was the case with Iraq in 1991 and Yugoslavia in 1999 respectively. Every country cannot be Vietnam or such. Vietnam wasn't doing well in the war either and suffered numerous setbacks including the disastrous Tet Offensive; they were merely living through all manner of punishment dished out to them until Americans gave up (a political decision because American public questioned the validity of this war from the start).

Even superpowers such as China or Russia do not want to escalate things with USA beyond the point-of-no-return. Both are subject to sanctions of USA as of late which does not create a climate of normalcy between them.

Iranians are brave no doubt, but many have unrealistic take of things as well. This might be a mindset or something, but come on.

Now; going as far as to declare members of a particular country as being American worshipers, is wrong and flamebaiting. No Pakistani 'worship' USA or any other foreign country to my knowledge. Any superpower will receive hype from various circles around the world; this is it. WE are not hyping a country for the sake of loving it, but due to its apparent merits and capabilities.

WE are not mocking Iran per se. Understand the difference.

First of all sorry for delay ....

The whole story is:

One day baby cow asked grandpa cow why human eat all our parts, peel our skin and kill us but leave the donkeys alone neither kill them nor eat them .. why there are so much differences?
Grandpa look at him told the baby cow, my son because donkeys give a ride to the farmer so they have the chance to stay alive ... Remember it my dear son it's the secret of remaining alive here.
​

So you give a ride and you may remain alive for a while but at the end of day you'd be a donkey ... the problem of the world is in this story some are cows and would be eaten some others are donkey and bow and give a ride to remain alive ... but we are not neither cow nor donkey,secondary citizen of the world etc etc .. we are human beings whom reject oppression and wanna live free of any yoke . if China , Russia , Pakistan or any other country (all of us) would stand against the bullies then they would have no choice but to stop it ... you guys encourage them with your behavior ... you telling them you have right to bully me but don't drive me into a corner or pressed me hard enough otherwise it's Ok.

On what you said a part of that is due to the nature of Iran, countries do enjoy strategic partners in their relationship like China & Pakistan or Russia & China but Iran has never had such a partnership neither now nor in the past ... have you ever asked yourself why not? it's been in this way for Iran's entire history we've been always alone. an strong Iran is in no interest of anyone be it usa China or Russia or Romans and Greeks ... historically we can not tolerate something to be forced upon us ... unlike regional countries that have invaded their neighbors or attack them we never done that .. you call us unrealistic but what about the tiny UAE which is intervening in every corner of region from Afghanistan to Libya? actions are better sources for a balance judgment. Iranians leader are realistic otherwise Iran should have faced the same fate of Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Lebanon or Yugoslavia and Vietnam as you mentioned . just think for a moment that the most anti-Iranian administration has been in power for the past 3.5 years in the usa and despite their endless efforts for regime change, war or economical collapse of Iran through sanctions, supporting terrorists even depriving Iranian ppl from food and medicine mid corrona pandemic not only Iran is standing still we've sent food to Venezuela and repaired their refineries despite Iran being sanctioned under max pressure .. so no we are not unrealistic ones that underestimate others power or take ourselves as untouchable power on the contrary we are a nation with principles ready to talk and negotiate with any sensible person whom is ready to cooperate in respectful way as we did in 2015 if they opt other way as they already did like bullying then we would not bow.
On the other hand it (the feeling) might derived from what they've done to us in the past like this resulted in death of 9~10 million Iranians ...

If we wanted to stick to idea realistic take of things in personal capacity then back in Shah era when american were here controlling the entire country our fathers should have told themselves america is so strong why fighting against them ...

 

[Dariush the Great]

What people fail to realize is that Iran is trying very hard to keep a war outside of its borders at any costs. This is nr.1 priority for the leaders of Iran and this can be obviously be seen by the actions Iran takes.

Sure, we can right now lob hundreds of pinpoint missiles at Telaviv and Haifa and turn it into a pile of rubble but what will come next ? What will be the cost of such action ? Will there be danger to Iranian lives, homes, infrastructure, civilian foundations of the country ? Will Israel then have the upper hand in the region, or not ?
All of these questions are extremely important and can not be answered. Honestly Iran is in a big testing time and it is in a big mess, it has time to appropriately respond and it will do so. People will see Iran's lack of retaliation perhaps as weakness but in my opinion what is to be respected about Iran is its calmness and calculative response without any emotions.

We saw what happened to other countries and to a greater extent to the world. Take for example the baath party of Iraq, their emotional and illogical actions literally led to the occupation of Iraq and annihilation of that country for decades to come.

Iran just isn't going to act like that and it will be in the interest of the country in the long term. Iranian leaders are rational patriots and they will decide accordingly. Like i said before, time is in Iran's favor.

 

[Xerxes22]

First of all sorry for delay ....

The whole story is:

One day baby cow asked grandpa cow why human eat all our parts, peel our skin and kill us but leave the donkeys alone neither kill them nor eat them .. why there are so much differences?
Grandpa look at him told the baby cow, my son because donkeys give a ride to the farmer so they have the chance to stay alive ... Remember it my dear son it's the secret of remaining alive here.
​

So you give a ride and you may remain alive for a while but at the end of day you'd be a donkey ... the problem of the world is in this story some are cows and would be eaten some others are donkey and bow and give a ride to remain alive ... but we are not neither cow nor donkey,secondary citizen of the world etc etc .. we are human beings whom reject oppression and wanna live free of any yoke . if China , Russia , Pakistan or any other country (all of us) would stand against the bullies then they would have no choice but to stop it ... you guys encourage them with your behavior ... you telling them you have right to bully me but don't drive me into a corner or pressed me hard enough otherwise it's Ok.

On what you said a part of that is due to the nature of Iran, countries do enjoy strategic partners in their relationship like China & Pakistan or Russia & China but Iran has never had such a partnership neither now nor in the past ... have you ever asked yourself why not? it's been in this way for Iran's entire history we've been always alone. an strong Iran is in no interest of anyone be it usa China or Russia or Romans and Greeks ... historically we can not tolerate something to be forced upon us ... unlike regional countries that have invaded their neighbors or attack them we never done that .. you call us unrealistic but what about the tiny UAE which is intervening in every corner of region from Afghanistan to Libya? actions are better sources for a balance judgment. Iranians leader are realistic otherwise Iran should have faced the same fate of Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Lebanon or Yugoslavia and Vietnam as you mentioned . just think for a moment that the most anti-Iranian administration has been in power for the past 3.5 years in the usa and despite their endless efforts for regime change, war or economical collapse of Iran through sanctions, supporting terrorists even depriving Iranian ppl from food and medicine mid corrona pandemic not only Iran is standing still we've sent food to Venezuela and repaired their refineries despite Iran being sanctioned under max pressure .. so no we are not unrealistic ones that underestimate others power or take ourselves as untouchable power on the contrary we are a nation with principles ready to talk and negotiate with any sensible person whom is ready to cooperate in respectful way as we did in 2015 if they opt other way as they already did like bullying then we would not bow.
On the other hand it (the feeling) might derived from what they've done to us in the past like this resulted in death of 9~10 million Iranians ...

If we wanted to stick to idea realistic take of things in personal capacity then back in Shah era when american were here controlling the entire country our fathers should have told themselves america is so strong why fighting against them ...

pakistan is great at bending over to the US. Wat do u expect? They will bend over and then label their utter cowardice as “Strategic”. Whilst Iran confronted the whole entire Zionist US front single handed lay after being ravaged with sanctions. Wud Pakistan’s be able to do that? Respect Iran and stop talking bs . We don’t need lecture from Pakistanis. Grow sum balls first

 

[LeGenD]

pakistan is great at bending over to the US. Wat do u expect? They will bend over and then label their utter cowardice as “Strategic”. Whilst Iran confronted the whole entire Zionist US front single handed lay after being ravaged with sanctions. Wud Pakistan’s be able to do that? Respect Iran and stop talking bs . We don’t need lecture from Pakistanis. Grow sum balls first

Do you understand Pakistani economic realities? Much different from that of Iran.

In spite of all manner of sanctions imposed on Iran, it still has buyers of its oil.

My apologies but Pakistan is not a major oil producing country, unfortunately.

WE are picking and choosing our battles wisely. Take cues from our accomplishments in Afghanistan for instance.

First of all sorry for delay ....

The whole story is:

One day baby cow asked grandpa cow why human eat all our parts, peel our skin and kill us but leave the donkeys alone neither kill them nor eat them .. why there are so much differences?
Grandpa look at him told the baby cow, my son because donkeys give a ride to the farmer so they have the chance to stay alive ... Remember it my dear son it's the secret of remaining alive here.
​

So you give a ride and you may remain alive for a while but at the end of day you'd be a donkey ... the problem of the world is in this story some are cows and would be eaten some others are donkey and bow and give a ride to remain alive ... but we are not neither cow nor donkey,secondary citizen of the world etc etc .. we are human beings whom reject oppression and wanna live free of any yoke . if China , Russia , Pakistan or any other country (all of us) would stand against the bullies then they would have no choice but to stop it ... you guys encourage them with your behavior ... you telling them you have right to bully me but don't drive me into a corner or pressed me hard enough otherwise it's Ok.

On what you said a part of that is due to the nature of Iran, countries do enjoy strategic partners in their relationship like China & Pakistan or Russia & China but Iran has never had such a partnership neither now nor in the past ... have you ever asked yourself why not? it's been in this way for Iran's entire history we've been always alone. an strong Iran is in no interest of anyone be it usa China or Russia or Romans and Greeks ... historically we can not tolerate something to be forced upon us ... unlike regional countries that have invaded their neighbors or attack them we never done that .. you call us unrealistic but what about the tiny UAE which is intervening in every corner of region from Afghanistan to Libya? actions are better sources for a balance judgment. Iranians leader are realistic otherwise Iran should have faced the same fate of Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Lebanon or Yugoslavia and Vietnam as you mentioned . just think for a moment that the most anti-Iranian administration has been in power for the past 3.5 years in the usa and despite their endless efforts for regime change, war or economical collapse of Iran through sanctions, supporting terrorists even depriving Iranian ppl from food and medicine mid corrona pandemic not only Iran is standing still we've sent food to Venezuela and repaired their refineries despite Iran being sanctioned under max pressure .. so no we are not unrealistic ones that underestimate others power or take ourselves as untouchable power on the contrary we are a nation with principles ready to talk and negotiate with any sensible person whom is ready to cooperate in respectful way as we did in 2015 if they opt other way as they already did like bullying then we would not bow.
On the other hand it (the feeling) might derived from what they've done to us in the past like this resulted in death of 9~10 million Iranians ...

If we wanted to stick to idea realistic take of things in personal capacity then back in Shah era when american were here controlling the entire country our fathers should have told themselves america is so strong why fighting against them ...

Friend,

Red highlight: Russia and China are allies of convenience. Do you think they will stand up to USA? No.

They will also fight through "client states."

Understand that.

True alliance can only be established between Islamic countries. For this to happen, both KSA and Iran need to review and revisit their foreign policy aspects. I have stressed on this part before, repeatedly.

When two of the most powerful Islamic countries are at loggerheads, what do you expect? Israel and the sort will definitely take advantage.

Check the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iraq...isham-al-hashemi-shot-dead-in-baghdad.674825/

What do you think is happening in Iraq? I am expecting a honest answer.

Militia politics in short, and its ugly for the entire region. They turn criminal and act above law. The state loose power and control by extension. You expect this kind of Iraq to hold up to USA? You kidding, right? Iraq has turned into another banana republic much like Lebanon and Syria - congratulations. A country is strong when internally united and focused. It becomes a banana republic when internally split and distracted, and incapable of developing a long-term strategy to counter foreign threats consequently.

Your leaders have given both USA and Israel sufficient ammunition to exploit fissures across the Middle East to their advantage; these two are masters of the art.

GCC is completely distracted, and perceive 'militia politics' as the immediate threat.

Muslim vs. Muslim all over the again. Americans and Israeli are laughing as usual.

When THEY carry acts of sabotage in any Islamic country, nobody is able to do anything.

Glaring example: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iranian-retaliation-scenarios-how-to-respond.674870/

The big battle you guys wish to fight with Zionists, cannot be fought and won like this. Sorry.

You need allies, state-based. Those militias are up to no good.

---

Blue highlights: connect the dots. You answered your own point in your post.

Pakistan cannot do much on its own, or function like a hired gun for indefinite period. Do not expect miracles.