Breaking news : Suicide blast near Masjid-i-Nabvi, Saudi media reports

[somebozo]

The ideology of takfirism, ransacking the holy sites of other sects and killing them for supposed unholiness finds its origins in Saudi Arabia, with the modern variant being Saudi's Wahhabism.

In that retro respect this is precisely what the Islamic history is..I have an old book which documents extensive Hindo communities in Arabia in and around Mecca...where are they today??? similarly what did the Arabs do after conquest of Persia??

 

[HAIDER]

An insignificant drop in the ocean among 1.6 billion people. Not even 0,001%.

I put little emphasis on empty words. What is that "ideology" exactly and where does that supposed ideology tell its followers to do what Fahish has been doing?

Other than that then you are right that Islam itself, all sects of Sunni and Shia Islam, Sufism etc. originates from what is today KSA.



ISIS does not rely on any donations at all. They control entire oilfields in Iraq and Syria and like any mafia/drug cartel rely heavily on extortion of the local populace. Nor has their actions or ideology anything to do with any Islamic sect. If that was the case we would have seen ISIS in action or similar groups decades ago but that was not the case.

ISIS is an internal Iraqi matter that was created in the aftermath of the fatal US invasion of Iraq and now it has evolved. However their existence is on loaned time.



I simply do not accept your premise and you have not proven your case at all either. Other than hyperbole.

Me and my family suffered due to foreign branded islamic ideology. You have just start seeing the curse of sectarianism.

 

[Arabian Stallion]

In that retro respect this is precisely what the Islamic history is..I have an old book which documents extensive Hindo communities in Arabia in and around Mecca...where are they today??? similarly what did the Arabs do after conquest of Persia??

Hinduism did not have any presence in Arabia whatsoever. The region was dominated by ancient Semitic pre-Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity, Hanifs and a very small minority of Zoroastrians in Eastern Arabia. This whole notion of Muslims destroying everything is complete and utter bogus which the 100's upon 100's of ancient pre-Islamic artifacts in the Arab world (hundreds in Arabia alone) confirm.

In fact only ISIS, since the era of Prophet Muhammad (saws) began destroying non-Muslim artifacts. Prior to their action those ancient sites were all left alone.

Also your whole premise is based on a nonsense and false assumption of previous non-Islamic religions and rulers not engaging in the exact same ills that SOME Muslims did and do to this very day along with non-Muslims.

Me and my family suffered due to foreign branded islamic ideology. You have just start seeing the curse of sectarianism.

Well, I am sorry to hear about that but I am not going to agree with your notion for that reason alone.

 

[alarabi]

There are tens of thousands of active ISIS members, and most likely millions of silent supporters worldwide. The organization managed to attract more than 30.000 members within a timespan of only 2 years. Imagine what it could have achieved if the West didn't intervene and regional countries wouldn't close their borders to their recruits. Moreover, the organization is drawing support from an ideology which is widely cherished in Saudi Arabia, and has over the decades been exported to countries such as Pakistan.

Frankly, the nationality of the suicide bomber is insignificant. What matters is the ideology, which is neither Pakistani in nature nor find its origins in the country. The ideology that ISIS has adopted on the other hand can be traced back to Saudi Arabia, and the whole world is now feeling the consequences of it.

I don't wanna bother myself responding to such a nonsense comment, but guess what? As you're lecturing about the crux of why Daesh is still exist? Your country IRan is unsurprisingly funding Taliban with cash and money. You'd better go and ask your clergies.

Iran Backs Taliban With Cash and Arms

 

[somebozo]

Hinduism did not have any presence in Arabia whatsoever. The region was dominated by ancient Semitic pre-Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity, Hanifs and a very small minority of Zoroastrians in Eastern Arabia. This whole notion of Muslims destroying everything is complete and utter bogus which the 100's upon 100's of ancient pre-Islamic artifacts in the Arab world (hundreds in Arabia alone) confirm.

In fact only ISIS, since the era of Prophet Muhammad (saws) began destroying non-Muslim artifacts. Prior to their action those ancient sites were all left alone.

Good logic...it is debatable..but still the mutawen force is accused to have destroyed many "islamic" artifacts...especially those in the baqi cemetery....

I don't wanna bother myself responding to such a nonsense comment, but guess what? As you're lecturing about the crux of why Daesh is still exist? Your country IRan is unsurprisingly funding Taliban with cash and money. You'd better go and ask your clergies.

Iran Backs Taliban With Cash and Arms

In the business of intelligence there is no black and white..for example if you want a strong right-wing surge in a target country..you can do it by funding and arming a much smaller left..the reaction causes a strong right to surge..

 

[Falcon29]

@Arabian Stallion

Ignore some certain people here who are here to flame, and score brownie points for their agenda whenever they can. Trust me, you won't gain anything out of discussion with guy ashamed of his background that doesn't know how to be original, you can be ex-Muslim and original, it can be done, no need to be someone with inferiority complex that's afraid of being himself.

In that retro respect this is precisely what the Islamic history is..I have an old book which documents extensive Hindo communities in Arabia in and around Mecca...where are they today??? similarly what did the Arabs do after conquest of Persia??

I like your argument you made about cultural dissipation and religion, I don't see why pin blame on a single country or its people. They're not responsible for past, and it's no simple task to revive local, traditional culture, in a region that houses Abrahamic religion. The people will not comply, it only worked with the Jews as they migrated West, experienced reformed thought and culture there, then exported Western thought back to Middle East. In my opinion they should have remained in the West though, it's not right of them to take advantage of situation at the time.

 

[HAIDER]

Good logic...it is debatable..but still the mutawen force is accused to have destroyed many "islamic" artifacts...especially those in the baqi cemetery....



In the business of intelligence there is no black and white..for example if you want a strong right-wing surge in a target country..you can do it by funding and arming a much smaller left..the reaction causes a strong right to surge..

Majority of early Islamic landmarks been gone in the name of expansion . Just example, this grave of First lady of Islam ,who financed the propagation of Islam.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Terrible news. The scourge of ISIS must be defeated at all cost.

 

[Surenas]

Once again there are 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide. I repeat, 1.6 billion. CIA estimates that there are between 19.000-25.000 ISIS members worldwide. What is there to misunderstand? As for active supporters, every logic dictates, that there are no more of such people than actual members.

Why are you intentionally overlooking my other arguments? Like I said:

1) ISIS managed to attract more than 30.000 active members with an extremely short timespan.
2) Western military intervention and crackdown by regional countries hampered its speedy growth. Imagine what it could have achieved if these factors would not have played a role.
3) 1.6 billions, yet many Islamic countries are geographically disconnected. What is more important is ideological support within these countries, which is unknown but could very likely be in the double digits.

The forerunners of ISIS have existed in Iraq since 1999.

Thore forerunners of ISIS originated in Saudi Arabia, in which case Bin Laden and its Al Qaeda organization.

If you take a look at Islamic scripture it is much less violent than Judaism, Christianity and most other religions. However if criminal and absolute fringe groups such as ISIS are desperate to only put emphasis on 1-3 Qur'an verses (taken out of context) or Ahadith of a dubious authenticity there is not much to do.

I am not going to argue which religion is more violent, despite the fact that all these three religions are Semitic in nature. Islam has a significant violent component in its essence, and organizations like ISIS are a manifestation of this reality.

No such thing. I asked you to find a correlation between the actions of ISIS and Islam or any Islamic sect. You failed to do so as has everyone else so far.

No I didn't.

Which Islamic sect calls for attacks on the second most holy site in Islam, the killing of children and 100's of other examples that have nothing to do with any Islamic sect or religion for that matter? At least as practiced by 99,99% of all Muslims and people of any religion?

First of all, Medina itself was not attacked. The fact that in the city an attack was conducted hardly matters. Didn't Muhammad itself wage a war in Islam's most holy cities when local rulers resisted him and his followers? Not very surprising that ISIS does too. Moreover, the intention of the attacker is still unknown.

No, it's entirely correct. Islam itself, Sunni and Shia Islam (human constructs) and Sufism all originate in what is today KSA or the Arab world. Many of the Sufi practices have a pre-Islamic origin in practices from the region for instance.

A

 

[Arabian Stallion]

Majority of early Islamic landmarks been gone in the name of expansion . Just example, this grave of First lady of Islam ,who financed the propagation of Islam.

You obviously, like most people here and elsewhere, do not know your Islamic history. The few mausoleums and graves were not original but of a newer date. Most were initially built during the late era of the Abbasid Caliphate/Empire and were later renovated and at times expanded by the Ottomans. Or more precisely the actual de facto guardians the successive Sharifs of Makkah and Madinah.
In order words several centuries after the death of those Islamic personalities.

What is funny here is that the initial graves of those Islamic personalities, as built 1400-1300 years ago, did not look much differently from what they look like today. Do you think that the original graves 1400-1300 years ago even resembled what you see in Najaf and Karbala today and elsewhere? Not at all. If you believe so you are only kidding yourself here.

Another nonsense story is the crying for some 150 year old Ottoman fort that has nothing to do with Islam and on whose place there were previous forts built by the Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid Caliphates, Ayyubids, Mamluks etc. As if that would ever prevent the natural expansion of Makkah (a living city) in the light of the constantly growing demand of pilgrims during Umrah and Hajj. Makkah is not a museum but a living city (one of the largest not only in KSA but the MENA region) and moreover people should reread what Hajj and Umrah is about. Hint, it's not about some elaborate mausoleum or grave of long-dead Islamic personalities, as great, as they might have been.

Do you really think that Prophet Muhammad (saws) and the earliest Muslim personalities would recognize let alone understand the elaborate mausoleums that you can find in Najaf and Karbala for instance and in many places in the Arab and Muslim world? I personally admire those mausoleums from an architectural point of view and I find them harmless but what such practices have to do with Islam and its teachings, I struggle to figure out.

 

[HAIDER]

Terrible news. The scourge of ISIS must be defeated at all cost.

Its now monster and now beyond control of its master.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

I hope finally Pakistan will stop differentiating b/w good and bad terrorists

No one is differentiating here. Only your obsessiveness has made that conclusion for you. There have been Indian youth that have joined Isis but you don't see us Pakistanis eagerly showing that off to defame India do we know? Such classless and childish behaviour you people spout on this forum at a time like this and on an event like this is despicable.

 

[HAIDER]

You obviously, like most people here and elsewhere, do not know your Islamic history. The few mausoleums and graves were not original but of a newer date. Most were initially built during the late era of the Abbasid Caliphate/Empire and were later renovated and at times expanded by the Ottomans. Or more precisely the actual de facto guardians the successive Sharifs of Makkah and Madinah.
In order words several centuries after the death of those Islamic personalities.

What is funny here is that the initial graves of those Islamic personalities, as built 1400-1300 years ago, did not look much differently from what they look like today. Do you think that the original graves 1400-1300 years ago even resembled what you see in Najaf and Karakul today and elsewhere? Not at all. If you believe so you are only kidding yourself here.

Another nonsense story is the crying for some 150 year old Ottoman fort that has nothing to do with Islam and on whose place there were previous forts built by the Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid Caliphates, Ayyubids, Mamluks etc. As if that would ever prevent the natural expansion of Makkah (a living city) in the light of the constantly growing demand of pilgrims during Umrah and Hajj. Makkah is not a museum but a living city (one of the largest not only in KSA but the MENA region) and moreover people should reread what Hajj and Umrah is about. Hint, it's not about some elaborate mausoleum or grave of long-dead Islamic personalities, as great, as they might have been.

Do you really think that Prophet Muhammad (saws) and the earliest Muslim personalities would recognize let alone understand the elaborate mausoleums that you can find in Najaf and Karbala for instance and in many places in the Arab and Muslim world? I personally admire those mausoleums from an architectural point of view and I find them harmless but what such practices have to do with Islam and its teachings, I struggle to figure out.

I believe and lots of people like me believe in saving the Islamic heritage , specially the heritage of Holy Prophet and his family and friends. . Anyway, its useless , lot of them are gone now. Baqee is leveled.....Now biggest issue for present Saudi govt to focus a huge young population. They need direction, otherwise.Mullahs are waiting to grab and brain wash them. Saw the picture of saudi boys arrest in Kuwait. It was shocking to see there ages.

No one is differentiating here. Only your obsessiveness has made that conclusion for you. There have been Indian youth that have joined Isis but you don't see us Pakistanis eagerly showing that off to defame India do we know? Such classless and childish behaviour you people spout on this forum at a time like this and on an event like this is despicable.

OOO the ones who used to clean the bathrooms....

 

[WaLeEdK2]

I believe and lots of people like me believe in saving the Islamic heritage , specially the heritage of Holy Prophet and his family and friends. . Anyway, its useless , lot of them are gone now. Baqee is leveled.....


OOO the ones who used to clean the bathrooms....

And the Pakistani was a driver... What have jobs have to do with anything? Fact is they became radicalized and the Indian government FAILED to tackle this issue as have many others. So why pin down Pakistan for one man? Please down say that the ISI is behind this too lmao. you fail tomake a valid point therefore your weak argumnet is irrelevant and holds no credentials.

 

[Arabian Stallion]

Why are you intentionally overlooking my other arguments? Like I said:

1) ISIS managed to attract more than 30.000 active members with an extremely short timespan.
2) Western military intervention and crackdown by regional countries hampered its speedy growth. Imagine what it could have achieved if these factors would not have played a role.
3) 1.6 billions, yet many Islamic countries are geographically disconnected. What is more important is ideological support within these countries, which is unknown but could very likely be in the double digits.



Thore forerunners of ISIS originated in Saudi Arabia, in which case Bin Laden and its Al Qaeda organization.



I am not going to argue which religion is more violent, despite the fact that all these three religions are Semitic in nature. Islam has a significant violent component in its essence, and organizations like ISIS are a manifestation of this reality.



No I didn't.



First of all, Medina itself was not attacked. The fact that in the city an attack was conducted hardly matters. Didn't Muhammad itself wage a war in Islam's most holy cities when local rulers resisted him and his followers? Not very surprising that ISIS does too. Moreover, the intention of the attacker is still unknown.



A

What is there to overlook? You insist on a number (30.000) that you have provided no credible source for. As I wrote, CIA's estimates put the number between 19.000-25.000 active members WORLDWIDE. Not solely in Iraq and Syria. Once again there are 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide.

3 years (ISIL) is not a short time span at all given the size of the Muslim population (1.6 billion) worldwide and the fact that there are potentially 60 million people to pick from in Iraq and Syria combined. States that by large, at least large parts of them, are completely lawless.

You also neglect the fact that ISIS (their predecessors) date back to 1999. In fact what is today ISIS is merely a merger of Al-Qaeda in Iraq (which was founded by Iraqi Ba'athists who are still all-dominating in terms of leadership in ISIS) and local and foreign Jihadists. ISIS and Al-Qaeda in Iraq had a specific nature and opus operandi not seen anywhere which is why it was almost always largely distanced from Al-Qaeda and later why it left it. One cannot understand ISIS and its ideology without understanding Iraq's recent history.

Very doubtful as we would otherwise have seen weekly attacks while we only see monthly attacks in war thorn countries, mostly Iraq and Syria.

As for ISIS attacks worldwide, most still occur in Iraq and Syria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_linked_to_ISIL

Wrong. Modern Jihadism originates in Afghanistan and its teachings are based on Qutbism which again derives from the teachings of Sayyid Qutb whose teachings again must be seen in a historical context mainly in relation to colonialism in Egypt and the Arab world and the societal changes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutbism

You have not provided a single proof of Islam being more violent than any other religion. As for religions themselves, looking at pre-Abrahamic history, the human history was as brutal if not more. The only difference is that the world has evolved technologically and made warfare much more bloody.

As for violent ideologies, nationalism, nazism, communism and numerous other political ideologies that have nothing to do with religion, have been many times bloodier in the past century than all religions combined, in particular Islam.

In fact drug cartels in Mexico alone have killed many more people than so-called "Islamic" terrorism worldwide.

Madinah was not attacked you say? So the attack IN Madinah (second most holy city in Islam) and NEXT to Al-Masjid an-Nabawi (second most holy mosque in Islam) was an illusion?

As for the motive, we need not to know the motive as we already know the perpetrator (ISIS) and their view on the Saudi Arabian establishment (the target was security officers) nor is there any doubt about ISIS' goal of creating havoc during Ramadan as this was openly stated by their spokesman Al-Adnani in May.

I believe and lots of people like me believe in saving the Islamic heritage , specially the heritage of Holy Prophet and his family and friends. . Anyway, its useless , lot of them are gone now. Baqee is leveled.....Now biggest issue for present Saudi govt to focus a huge young population. They need direction, otherwise.Mullahs are waiting to grab and brain wash them. Saw the picture of saudi boys arrest in Kuwait. It was shocking to see there ages.

200 year old military forts are not Islamic heritage and I did not discuss from a perspective of heritage but from a religious perspective. The graves are not gone at all. Their outer design (mausoleums) are and as I wrote most of those were of a new date and not original. Nor will those artifacts prevent necessary expansions of the holy sites. Nor are Makkah and Madinah museums but living cities.

2000 Saudi Arabains have joined the fighting in Iraq and Syria in the past 5 years on both sides. That's less than 0,001% of the population if not less. Likewise terrorist attacks in KSA can be counted on two hands. You should not worry about KSA, worry about your own house first with all due respect.

I did not know that Kuwaitis, a Syrian and an Indian magically turned into Saudi Arabians so I do not know why you are bullshitting once again in this thread.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/kuwait/kuwait-foils-terror-attacks-arrests-suspects-1.1857010