BrahMos Storage Complex Under Construction in Halwara

[SQ8]

You do not have a ABM. And S-400 is NOT a missile shield at ALL. It can perhaps intercept scud but thats its limit. S-400 is excellent air defense system but its NOT a ABM.

Lastly, if you want to go "all out", why do you think your opponent cannot start a war with "all out" nuclear option as well. Remember, you do not have a SSBN. At best a SSGN. If they go all out for decapitation, its all over for you.

Nuclear war will be end of Pakistan and devastation but still continuation of India.

That is the one of the key fallacies in any of these assumptions. What is to continue of India if every major city and military target is hit?
What is going to continue it?

 

[HRK]

To all Pakistani member plz stop engaging yourself with a self delusional false flag Indian who is probably a banned Indian merber with his previous ID.

Pattern of Arguments & Writing style suggested the same.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

While they do have a much better IADS than Armenia - the costs of using the expendables are still the same. The flight cost for a UAV is barely $500 for some of the ones in service and at the end even the most expensive ones top out at $1 million per unit. Nobody keeps SAMS ringing the border and the front line of troops other than MANPADs or SHORADS such as Tungskas or others which are outranged by everything on the UAVs. CAS is a very hostile environment because the target is moving which requires visual ID in many cases or putting an aircraft in harms way - compared to that using these systems.

With induction of HPR, we actually moving toward that and ADIZ.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

1. Brahmos are atleast x10 more expensive compared to the babur. Due to its size India will be significantly limited in how many Brahmos they could launch at once due to the size of their launchers. Only a few SU30mki until now has been structurally modified to carry Brahmos.
2. Also due to its size Radars will be able to identify launch sites. Counter battery artillery/missile/airstrikes would be initiated.
3. Pakistan has been producing the babur since 2005 at around 300k USD per unit
4. Pakistan has a stock of thousands of baburs/raads/nasrs/fateh/A100 and other short range rockets
5. I doubt the Brahmos reliability as its made out to be. Its a remade Soviet Era Yakhont anti ship missile
6. Having a launch site with this many Brahmoses in storage I believe shows the idiocy of indians. A single decent missile from a UCAV would be enough to set that whole place is SMOKE

It would have been much much smarter to have underground bunker sites with underground tunnels/storage facilities. Have a few spread out across the front. Similar to what Iran/China have done.

India has not shown to the guts to escalate the conflict beyond a certain threshold. The next conflict will 99% likely also pan out that way. The last time Pakistan got the last word, the next time the Indians would want to get the last word.

In either case, Pakistan has the options to decimate IAF forward operating bases in the whole North Western front via missiles/rockets alone. From there it will shift to command nodes/SAM sites/Supply bases via a combination of army incursions/ air strikes/UCAVs and armored units. From a strategic point of view even if India were to strike first it would mobilize the majority of pakistans population to take action. Pakistan could exceed India in having more equipment/troops to the front lines at a much quicker rate.

Can you tell me where does Pakistan make the turbofan engines to be used in babur missile? If Pakistan does not make the engines but imports them, then the manufacturing of Babur will be significantly limited.

About Brahmos, it is one of the most reliable missile and extremely accurate with CEP 0.1m! It is also very stealthy as it has no large wings but is just a tube with small fins. It is practically impossible to stop brahmos from hitting its target once fired. The launchers will all be hidden in containers or decoys will be placed to misdirect enemy strikes.

Now, the only saving grace is that India will not escalate the fight beyond a point as Arab countries which host million fo Indians and supply $100 billion in remittance and investment would stop India from doing so. Last time, UAE asked India to avoid escalation with Pakistan and instead few days time for the GCC to control Pakistan. GCC instructed Pakistan to release Abhinandan and the hostilities stopped

 

[notorious_eagle]

Can you tell me where does Pakistan make the turbofan engines to be used in babur missile? If Pakistan does not make the engines but imports them, then the manufacturing of Babur will be significantly limited.

Yet there are hundreds of Babur's now in service. Do the math

About Brahmos, it is one of the most reliable missile and extremely accurate with CEP 0.1m!

We are yet to see the proof for this. Don't take offense but Indians have a habit of overhyping their weapon systems. Remember, the 'Raptor of Asia'.

It is also very stealthy as it has no large wings but is just a tube with small fins. It is practically impossible to stop brahmos from hitting its target once fired. The launchers will all be hidden in containers or decoys will be placed to misdirect enemy strikes.

False or have the Indians developed a new theory to defy the law of physics. You can either have speed or stealth, you cannot have both. A missile flying high at a speed of Mach 3 + will have an IR signature larger then an elephant. The speed compromises the stealth, it will immediately light up Pakistan's defenses and a missile flying at this speed will be a magnet for a heat seeking interceptor or radar guided anti aircraft guns. I would be far more concerned about Nirbhay, Brahmos is not really a headache for Pakistan. Brahmos is extremely potent against an enemy that lacks a credible AD shield.

 

[Tornado23]

Can you tell me where does Pakistan make the turbofan engines to be used in babur missile? If Pakistan does not make the engines but imports them, then the manufacturing of Babur will be significantly limited.

About Brahmos, it is one of the most reliable missile and extremely accurate with CEP 0.1m! It is also very stealthy as it has no large wings but is just a tube with small fins. It is practically impossible to stop brahmos from hitting its target once fired. The launchers will all be hidden in containers or decoys will be placed to misdirect enemy strikes.

Now, the only saving grace is that India will not escalate the fight beyond a point as Arab countries which host million fo Indians and supply $100 billion in remittance and investment would stop India from doing so. Last time, UAE asked India to avoid escalation with Pakistan and instead few days time for the GCC to control Pakistan. GCC instructed Pakistan to release Abhinandan and the hostilities stopped

Brahmos is a renamed p800 onyx. Its good but its not a game changer. They are counters to it which you shall find out should you launch them at us, but you have to bear in mind the power the Babur cm has. It can be nuclear tipped, has stealth properties, terrain hugging and is sub sonic. Meaning it will be extremely difficult to intercept.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Yet there are hundreds of Babur's now in service. Do the math

Then tell me which turbofan engine is used? The key for a subsonic cruise missile is the turbofan engine. Making it is very hard and requires large R&D and decades of work. When did Pakistan start the R&D and where is the engine manufactured?

We are yet to see the proof for this. Don't take offense but Indians have a habit of overhyping their weapon systems. Remember, the 'Raptor of Asia'.

India has released a video of Brahmos hitting the small target with pinpoint accuracy. Look at 0:55 of this video:

 

[notorious_eagle]

Then tell me which turbofan engine is used? The key for a subsonic cruise missile is the turbofan engine. Making it is very hard and requires large R&D and decades of work. When did Pakistan start the R&D and where is the engine manufactured?

I guess that would be a top secret for which i don't have an answer for. But what is not a secret is that there are hundreds of Babur's that are currently in PA's armoury.

India has released a video of Brahmos hitting the small target with pinpoint accuracy. Look at 0:55 of this video:

Thanks for sharing this. Although these tests are 'Dog and Pony Shows' designed to purposely succeed, this video does raise some interesting points.

1. You mentioned that Brahmos is stealthy. This couldn't be further from the truth based on the video you just posted. If there is one thing this video proves is that the missile is not stealthy one bit. Just look at the height its traveling at, the exhaust and the smoke. It will be picked up right away when it is fired.

2. Clear mismatch between the cartoonish visual guides they showed and the actual videos. In the visual guides they show the missile is hugging the water and maneuvering but is not replicated in the actual videos of the trials on the water because its impossible to hug the water and maneuver with this much speed and weight.

This video proves that with an adequate AD, Brahmos will be easily shot down by Pakistan and Nirhbay is the bigger threat that can hug the terrain and fly low.

 

[KaiserX]

Can you tell me where does Pakistan make the turbofan engines to be used in babur missile? If Pakistan does not make the engines but imports them, then the manufacturing of Babur will be significantly limited.

About Brahmos, it is one of the most reliable missile and extremely accurate with CEP 0.1m! It is also very stealthy as it has no large wings but is just a tube with small fins. It is practically impossible to stop brahmos from hitting its target once fired. The launchers will all be hidden in containers or decoys will be placed to misdirect enemy strikes.

Now, the only saving grace is that India will not escalate the fight beyond a point as Arab countries which host million fo Indians and supply $100 billion in remittance and investment would stop India from doing so. Last time, UAE asked India to avoid escalation with Pakistan and instead few days time for the GCC to control Pakistan. GCC instructed Pakistan to release Abhinandan and the hostilities stopped

Brahmos is accurate? dude from all your points it seems you lack knowledge of missiles/rockets and how they work

Brahmos quoted range of 300+KM is given when the Brahmos is launched in a top attack mode. In this mode the missile has a large trajectory and is very prone to navigational errors. Because of its lack of wings, even a minor course correction will create a large amount of drag on the missile. Its open intake design does not help with this (due to its increase in speed as air is compressed into the engine). In ground hugging mode the brahmos range decreases significantly to less than half (around 150KM).

Whether Pakistan imports the components or not does not matter. Per NESCOM the turbofans are produced in house. Sources these engines from outside is not an issue as China is a large manufacterer of small turbo fan engines. Furthermore the Brahmos is far less stealthy compared to the babur

- Brahmos is much much larger, it gives off a much larger plume of smoke upon launch
- Brahmos range is very limited, thus why india is choosing to create a large storage/launch complex this close to the IB
- The reliability of the Russian Yakhont is very questionable. The Russians have retired the missiles, and even close Russian allies such as China/Iran have focused instead on subsonic terrain hugging cruise missiles.

There is a reason why 99% of the militaries in the world are developing or procuring SUB SONIC cruise missiles. A supersonic/hypersonic missile makes a lot more sense given it is A) Air launch or B) Ballistic missile/Hypersonic glide missile, because then many of the vulnerabilities listed above are negated. Pakistan does not need to develop a super sonic cruise missile. It would be far more effective to increase the accuracy of existing ballistic missiles (Via navigational kits from China such as what Iran has done) or to focus such resources on developing a hypersonic glide vehicle (similar to NK).

Such naviational kits are extremely cheap and effective. If one recalls Iran strikes on US bases in Iraq (Jan 2020) they were far far more accurate than "Indias Brahmos" that to with a longer range, larger warhead, and more stealth.

 

[KrimesKaster]

That is the one of the key fallacies in any of these assumptions. What is to continue of India if every major city and military target is hit?
What is going to continue it?

No problem. It will still be a nation of about 1 billion people. Side effects of radiation can shorten the life but then Indians are used to short life. Not matters if they die at 38 or 68. Lastly, judging by what happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I am not certain that there is going to be a reduction in life span that great.

Pakistan? ALL Pakistanis will be dead if India goes all out to kill each and every one of you. Besides, it will most likely lead to nuclear attack on Kashmir and China claimed Ladakh, making it useless for all sides. In a way it will be a natural end of conflict, with India surviving and Pakistan dead.

Now a country that has suffered a devastating nuclear attack and has used nuclear weapon will not be threaten by ANY thing at ALL ever. So yeah, Chinese or any adversory can try then. India will start any conflicts with just the nukes then and that means there will be no conflict with India.

When you have nothing left to lose, no one wants to fight with you.

 

[arjunk]

You do not have a ABM

HQ-9 and HQ-16 have limited ABM capabilities.

 

[KrimesKaster]

I truly hope Indian strategic circles have more people like you. Wish you all the best! =)

Trouble with India is that no one wants to think straight.

HQ-9 and HQ-16 have limited ABM capabilities.

Against likes of scud. Nothing for a MARV like Agni/ Agni-P. China does not use HQ-9 and HQ-16 in ABM role.

 

[arjunk]

No problem. It will still be a nation of about 1 billion people. Side effects of radiation can shorten the life but then Indians are used to short life. Not matters if they die at 38 or 68. Lastly, judging by what happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I am not certain that there is going to be a reduction in life span that great.

Immediately after the blast, there will be 1 billion left? Alright, if you say so.

Spoiler: ...

Then, as people realise law and order has broken down, rampant terrorism and crime will break out. India as a country will disintegrate into small countries and tribes as it has historically been. Many will die from starvation, crime, poverty, and thirst. Then no one will open their borders for hundreds of millions of Indian refugees. All infrastructure in India will be gone for the most part. There will be no police to call, no hospital to go, no internet or cell service to call for help on, no road, rail or plane to escape on. Suicide rates will skyrocket. People will be hanging off what little planes are left to escape like Afghans did at Kabul. No one will set foot in a radioactive wasteland to help Indian people. Indians will be left to die of cancer, starvation, etc.

India as a nation will die within hours of a nuclear strike. Japan surrendered like a scared puppy after two tiny 20kt nukes - just NASR can carry more than TWICE as powerful a bomb. And here you are, delusional enough to believe that India will somehow survive hundreds of unstoppable perhaps megaton-range bombs raining from the sky?

As General Zia-ul-Haq said to Rajiv Gandhi -

Mr. Rajiv you want to invade Pakistan? Ok fine go ahead! But please remember one thing that after that people will forget Changez Khan and Hilaku Khan and will remember Zia and Rajiv Gandhi only. Because it will not be a Conventional War. Pakistan may possibly suffer annihilation but Muslims will still survive because there are several Muslim countries in the world. But remember there is only one India and I shall wipe out Hinduism and Hindu religion from the face of the earth! And if you don’t order complete de-escalation and demobilisation before my return to Pakistan, the first word of mouth I will utter will be “Fire”!

There will still be Muslims, Afghans, Baloch, Kashmiris, Gilgit-Baltistanis and overseas Punjabis and Sindhis left to continue Pakistan's cultural legacy. There will be no trace of India left on earth - every temple, historical site, and document - will burn to ashes. The diaspora Indians might mourn the death of their country for a generation or two - the whole world would mourn a tragic nuclear war after all - but all of the young Indians will eventually forget their culture and assimilate with the West.

 

[KrimesKaster]

Then, as people realise law and order has broken down, rampant terrorism and crime will break out.

Judging by the fact that India has no policing at all, the situation will not deteriorate much. There will be panic for 4-5 months. Few million deaths but then it will be back to normal. India is and has always been a massive chaos so nuclear bombs will just be a bit more of stirring the pot.

 

[SIPRA]

As General Zia-ul-Haq said to Rajiv Gandhi -

Mr. Rajiv you want to invade Pakistan? Ok fine go ahead! But please remember one thing that after that people will forget Changez Khan and Hilaku Khan and will remember Zia and Rajiv Gandhi only. Because it will not be a Conventional War. Pakistan may possibly suffer annihilation but Muslims will still survive because there are several Muslim countries in the world. But remember there is only one India and I shall wipe out Hinduism and Hindu religion from the face of the earth! And if you don’t order complete de-escalation and demobilisation before my return to Pakistan, the first word of mouth I will utter will be “Fire”!

..... and you have not mentioned about the soiled pajama of Rajiv, after listening to Zia ul Haq.