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Border Clash Between Afghanistan & Pakistan: Afghanistan Protecting TTP

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Taliban are not united and within are pro Pakistan and anti Pakistan groups. This is well known by Pakistan as well. It seems the anti Pakistan groups are creating pronlems. I hope Pakistan will eliminate the anti Pakistan groups.
 
I can't believe we are having this discussion AFTER Pakistan rounded up everyone to do a fundraiser for them :lol:

Whoever said they have a tribal honor code? I don't see any honor. I see opportunists who want to make sure the border remains porous so their men can sneak across to bed Pakistani women and radicalize your kids.

As I said previously, Pakistan should not take TTP leaders inside Afghanistan territory. Just like Indonesia never do any infiltration to Papua Nugini territory although Papuan rebel group operate around the border and have shelter inside Papua Nugini vast border with Indonesia territory in Papua.

Attack coming from drone or even plane will be seen as very hostile by the way compared to special force infiltration in the jungle region of Papua Nugini. Never such thing done by Indonesia since our independent
 
I can't believe we are having this discussion AFTER Pakistan rounded up everyone to do a fundraiser for them :lol:

Whoever said they have a tribal honor code? I don't see any honor. I see opportunists who want to make sure the border remains porous so their men can sneak across to bed Pakistani women and radicalize your kids.

I doubt one can squese any honor from lunatics who used little kids and teenagers as sucide bombers. Just a while back an Talib minister was proudly telling a tale of how some one brought him his youngest child to become sucide bomber. At the end of day they are nothing but bunch of animals who didnt differentiate between children and soldiers when they killed them.
 
The Taliban are not a homogeneous entity, some say they are comprised of six groups. Three of them are pro-Pakistanis including the Haqqanis one is pro-Iranian and one is pro-Chinese. The sixth ragtag group is comprised of some tribal elements, many of whom have fought in the Malakand and the Tribal belt against PA. They also have links with the TTP and are anti-Pakistan. The IEA will soon disband them but it will take some time.
Nevertheless, the Indians are enjoying a brief moment of ecstasy in the SM and siding the Taliban lol.
 
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The Taliban are not a homogeneous entity, some say they are comprised of six groups. Three of them are pro-Pakistanis including the Haqqanis one is pro-Iranian and one is pro-Chinese. The sixth ragtag group is comprised of some tribal elements, many of whom have fought in the Malakand and the Tribal belt against PA. They also have links with the TTP and are anti-Pakistan. The IEA will soon disband them but it will take some time.
Nevertheless, the Indians are enjoying a brief ecstasy in the SM and siding the Taliban lol.
With Whom will you deal then man? All these are silly excuses you are giving yourselves so that you can maintain that muslim brotherhood with afghans..because you don't have any other identity, you made your muslim identity as your sole identity. You somehow have fortified it in your mind since your childhood,...your mind finds it difficult to accept that talibs (or for that matter every muslim nation except punjabi muslims) dont give two hoots about their muslim brotherhood when dealing with their perceived enemies.
It is really ridiculous to defend your attackers saying it was done by anti pak elements.Such arguments sound very strange for non pakistanis...because i have been here for a while I dont find such arguments which arise out of identity crisis strange anymore.
 
No, Massood was amount first batch of Guerillas trained by ISI during 70s against Daud. He was Pro Pakistan but the Salafi mindset officers in the ISI supported Al Qaeda against him.

Oh ok
The IEA will soon disband them but it will take some time.

They aren't gonna disband them. That will be seen as a sign of betrayal.
 
Taliban are not united and within are pro Pakistan and anti Pakistan groups. This is well known by Pakistan as well. It seems the anti Pakistan groups are creating pronlems. I hope Pakistan will eliminate the anti Pakistan groups.

What people are also forgetting that thousands of ex-ANA men switched sides, grew a beard and now have become Taliban. There has been so much of this and the vetting didn't' happen. It's not the leadership's fault the whole thing came about so quickly. I wouldn't be surprised it could be ex-ANA who are now trying to start a war with Pakistan.
 
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With Whom will you deal then man? All these are silly excuses you are giving yourselves so that you can maintain that muslim brotherhood with afghans..because you don't have any other identity, you made your muslim identity as your sole identity. You somehow have fortified it in your mind since your childhood,...your mind finds it difficult to accept that talibs (or for that matter every muslim nation except punjabi muslims) dont give two hoots about their muslim brotherhood when dealing with their perceived enemies.
It is really ridiculous to defend your attackers saying it was done by anti pak elements.Such arguments sound very strange for non pakistanis...because i have been here for a while I dont find such arguments which arise out of identity crisis strange anymore.


One-time submarine power

Little remembered by the layperson has been the fact that Indonesia was once a major 'submarine power' in the Indian Ocean region. Under the leadership of its first president, Sukarno, Indonesia built up a strong navy, with considerable assistance from the erstwhile Soviet Union.

Sukarno had an interesting connection with India. Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru enthusiastically supported the Indonesian nationalist movement in its struggle for independence from Dutch colonial rule. In 1948, Nehru tasked his close friend and later Odiya political giant Biju Patnaik to fly out two aides of Sukarno to India, an act that outraged the Dutch colonisers.

The kind of warships Indonesia purchased from the Soviet Union included missile-carrying small patrol craft (commonly called missile boats), destroyers and frigates and, most notably, 12 'Whiskey' class diesel-electric submarines. Whiskey was the NATO codename for these vessels.

The Whiskey series of submarines was based on the design of a German 'U-Boat' that the Soviet Union seized after the end of the Second World War. The Indian Navy obtained its first submarines and missile boats from the Soviet Union only in the late 1960s.

Missile boats were a revolutionary weapon at the time as navies were only beginning to transition from the heavy artillery gun to the guided missile as their primary weapon for anti-ship warfare. As the Egyptian Navy showed by sinking the Israeli warship Eilat in late 1967 and the Indian Navy did by setting ablaze Karachi in the 1971 war, the Soviet-designed missile boat would prove to be one small platform that could deliver a deadly punch.

In his book Transition to Triumph: Indian Navy 1965-1975, retired Indian Navy vice admiral G.M. Hiranandani traced the dizzying growth of the Indonesian Navy. "Between 1959 and 1964, the Indonesian Navy had acquired... enormous fleet from Russia. It comprised one heavy cruiser, eighteen destroyers and frigates, twelve submarines, sixty-seven corvettes and motor torpedo boats, twelve missile boats, twenty-one minesweepers, eleven landing ships, six landing craft, four transport ships and four oilers."

Rift with India

Coinciding with the growth of the Indonesian Navy was Sukarno's espousal of a nationalist foreign policy that saw the island nation move away from India, despite both nations claiming to be non-aligned. Indonesia made claims to sovereignty over the Nicobar island chain in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, given their proximity to Sumatra.

1965 war

Indonesia had declared its support for Pakistan in the 1965 war. Even before the war, tension persisted over the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Hiranandani noted in his book, "In June (1965), there was an increase in Indonesian intrusions into the Nicobar Islands."

Hiranandani wrote "During the 1965 war, Indonesia's stance was markedly pro-Pakistan. There was an increase in the sightings of unidentified submarines and aircraft in the Andaman and Nicobar islands. In response to Pakistan's request for assistance, the Indonesian Navy sent two submarines and two missile boats to Karachi." However, he added the Indonesian vessels reached Karachi only after India and Pakistan announced a ceasefire.

In his book Blueprint to Bluewater: Indian Navy, 1951-65, Satyindra Singh records comments from Admiral Bhaskar Sadashiv Soman, who headed the Indian Navy at the time of the 1965 war with Pakistan.

Soman was worried about the spartan troop presence in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Soman was quoted as saying, "I also had some intelligence on the presence of some Indonesian ships at Karachi and knew that any operation undertaken by the combined naval forces of Pakistan and Indonesia would neither be against the Indian Fleet nor the Indian mainland. It was most likely to be for the capture of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. I was quite convinced in my mind that the Indonesian Navy, knowing full well... only a small force of sailors in khaki uniform was present on these islands, could make an attempt to capture the Nicobar Island..."


The Indonesian 'threat' was also confirmed by a Pakistani official. Air marshal Asghar Khan, who was replaced as chief of the Pakistan Air Force shortly before the start of the 1965 war, had met Sukarno as an envoy.

In his book The First Round, Asghar Khan claimed Sukarno treated India's attack on Pakistan as an attack on Indonesia and declared his government was "duty bound" to give all assistance to Islamabad. Admiral Raden Eddy Martadinata, who was head of the Indonesian Navy at the time, purportedly asked Khan, "Don't you want us to take over the Andaman Islands?"

Relations between India and Indonesia saw cautious improvement after Sukarno was forced to demit office in 1967 as political and economic unrest engulfed Indonesia. India and Indonesia concluded maritime boundary agreements in 1974 and 1977 over the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Over the past decade, both nations have grown closer in their pursuit of economic ties, cooperation on maritime security and mutual worries about China.

 
With Whom will you deal then man? All these are silly excuses you are giving yourselves so that you can maintain that muslim brotherhood with afghans..because you don't have any other identity, you made your muslim identity as your sole identity. You somehow have fortified it in your mind since your childhood,...your mind finds it difficult to accept that talibs (or for that matter every muslim nation except punjabi muslims) dont give two hoots about their muslim brotherhood when dealing with their perceived enemies.
It is really ridiculous to defend your attackers saying it was done by anti pak elements.Such arguments sound very strange for non pakistanis...because i have been here for a while I dont find such arguments which arise out of identity crisis strange anymore.

We are not stupid morons like u indians to look at everything as black and white. Relations with countries are not a zero sum game u moron. Its not like u r either friends with a person or not. Its something a common indian mind cannot comprehend. So better just act like the baboons u r and dance to instant individual events and cry later, like u danced at balakot attack n then cried later, like u danced at LAC standoff n then cried later or when u were all doing nagan dance at panjshir fight n cried later. You should be the last person to even open ur mouth.
 

A TTP militant martyred two jawans of Pakistan Army. Pakistan Army targeted his location & Afghan Taliban attack Pakistan Army for doing so. Afghan Taliban need to decide what sort of relations they want to have with Pakistan. Supporting TTP shows what they want. If border were to be shutdown for a day or two, Taliban would come crawling with an apology. But they would not desist from supporting TTP. Its time Pakistan took the issue of TTP seriously & not just demand action, but actually target TTP militants in their hideouts in Afghanistan. Taliban must be forced to choose between either enmity with Pakistan or ejecting TTP completely from their territory. There can be no two ways about it.

I say the above knowing full well the cost to the average Afghan, but I do not wish for another APS-like incident. If Pakistan does not address this with sufficient force, we may be looking at another long war. Its time to get really tough with the Afghan Taliban.
 
Optics & theatrics:


translation: "Afghanistan's Army Chief, Qari Faseehuddin Badakhshani toured the border in Nangarhar province. It was reported that he said that Taliban government wishes for good relations with neighbors, but if someone launches an attack, they would not stay quiet. In a tweet he called the border an imaginary line."

On a side note: please keep the discussion civil & decent. We don't want Afghans suffering & dying. We just do not want to see their land used to launch attacks on us. Also, I would like to see them respect our border, which is NOT Attock.
 

A TTP militant martyred two jawans of Pakistan Army. Pakistan Army targeted his location & Afghan Taliban attack Pakistan Army for doing so. Afghan Taliban need to decide what sort of relations they want to have with Pakistan. Supporting TTP shows what they want. If border were to be shutdown for a day or two, Taliban would come crawling with an apology. But they would not desist from supporting TTP. Its time Pakistan took the issue of TTP seriously & not just demand action, but actually target TTP militants in their hideouts in Afghanistan. Taliban must be forced to choose between either enmity with Pakistan or ejecting TTP completely from their territory. There can be no two ways about it.

I say the above knowing full well the cost to the average Afghan, but I do not wish for another APS-like incident. If Pakistan does not address this with sufficient force, we may be looking at another long war. Its time to get really tough with the Afghan Taliban.

Reminds me about that mother of shaheed APS chikd to whom Brigadier said to make more childern. I mean just this statement show level of seriousness amongst our Military top brass. Even now many Military generals think of Taliban as aba jaan.
 
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