Boeing offers advanced 787 dreamliner to PIA

[airmarshal]

Letter looks fake. Very unprofessional of Boeing to address the Prime Minister instead of the President/Chairman of PIA.

I totally agree. Its method of writing style is very unprofessional.

 

[somebozo]

I totally agree. Its method of writing style is very unprofessional.

Dont count on american english....i work with BACS and their manager is a Chinese American who cannot even speak sentence of english properly and his emails are so horrible in composition and grammer..

 

[Pak_Sher]

Dreamliners are big and beautiful planes and Pakistan should buy them. Definitely better then the 777s.

 

[airmarshal]

Dont count on american english....i work with BACS and their manager is a Chinese American who cannot even speak sentence of english properly and his emails are so horrible in composition and grammer..

But I m thinking if its coming from CEO office!

 

[Imtiaz_Sarwar]

@Imtiaz_Sarwar Sir, your comments would be appreciated.

Thank you for asking my comments. Although I must admit that other members on this forum are much more knowledgeable on this topic than I am.
In my humble opinion Pakistan should go for 787. We should keep in mind the 20 years limit imposed by Europe on the age of aircraft flying there. 777 is near the end of it's production line while 787 has a long way to go so in future we will not have to worry about spares. besides new aircraft will increase the reputation of Pakistan and people will feel confident to travel in our aircraft.
I believe the CEO of Boeing has given us a sincere suggestion. Although there is a hint of self interest on the part of Boeing. They have to sell more 787 to make profit.

 

[Furqan Sarwar]

Hi,
Don't want to contradict anyone as everyone has their own views. So, I am going to express mine here and I am not in favor of buying 787.

I normally get news about PIA from my cousin who works in Eng. dept. So, I first heard about this proposal about a month ago that PIA is looking for 787.

I have read the specs. of 787 and they look great however I don't think that 787 is mature enough. The main reason is ever since its maiden flight it is plague with problems which results in its fleet getting grounded many times.

You guys might think that here is another one who don't want PIA to improve or something like that.

Well here is my reasoning as to why we should not get 787.

1. Boeing VC comments in 2014 after problems were found in Norway's 787 and they were grounded:
"Mike Fleming, Boeing's vice president for 787 support and services, subsequently met with executives of Norwegian Air Shuttle and expressed Boeing's commitment to improving the 787's dispatch reliability, "we’re not satisfied with where the airplane is today, flying at a fleet average of 98 percent... The 777 today flies at 99.4 percent ... and that's the benchmark that the 787 needs to attain” "

2. The worldwide manufacturing process of the 787 has been often controversial and the reason, many industry insiders claim, for the many problems discovered. This was underlined at the Dubai Air Show in 2013 when the CEO of Emirates Airline said that he would prefer the 777X aircraft, the most recent from Boeing, be built in one location to avoid problems similar to those experienced by the 787.

3. Since the aircraft is using mostly composites therefore its maintenance will be a problem and currently PIA don't have any composites shops. Its engine will be new as well and PIA engineering staff haven't work on this engine before. So, in case of any problems it will be send someplace else for repairs which will add to extra COST.

4. That's the last one.

Here’s a timeline of problems the Dreamliner has experienced over the last five years. Link to below detail

"Sorry couldn't add links as I am new and not allowed to add links"

Post-Launch problems

Feb. 6, 2012: Boeing finds a manufacturing problem in the fuselage section of some Dreamliners.
July 23, 2012: ANA has five aircraft repaired after discovering a problem inside the Rolls-Royce engine.
July 28, 2012: A Dreamliner suffers an engine failure on the ground at the Boeing plant in Charleston. An investigation is announced by U.S. authorities.
Sept. 5, 2012: A hydraulic problem inside an ANA 787 causes the pilot to abort takeoff. White smoke is seen billowing from the aircraft.
Oct. 4 2012: An engine problem onboard an Air Bridge Cargo 747 in Shanghai prompts General Electric (NYSE:GE) to recommend the inspection of GEnx engines, which are used on some 747 and 787 aircraft.
Dec. 5, 2012: A report of fuel leaks prompts the FAA to order the inspection of all 787s.
Jan. 7, 2013: A fire starts on an empty Japan Airlines (TYO:9201) 787 at Boston Logan International.
Jan. 8, 2013: An ANA 787 is grounded after a crack in the windshield is found. Also, a JAL flight is forced to cancel after engineers discover a fuel leak.
Jan. 8, 2013: A Japan Airlines (JAL) 787 experienced a fuel leak, and its flight from Boston was canceled.
Jan. 9, 2013: United Continental Holdings Inc. (NYSE:UAL) discovers faulty wiring near a battery on six of its aircraft.
Jan. 11, 2013: Another Japan Airlines aircraft is found to have a fuel leak.
Jan. 13, 2013: Japan’s Transport Ministry launches an investigation after a third leak is discovered onboard a JAL aircraft.
Jan. 16, 2013: An ANA flight from Tokyo to Ube, makes an emergency landing after a burning smell is detected in the cabin and a warning light comes on. ANA and JAL ground all their 787s, and aviation authorities worldwide order the grounding of all Dreamliners. Boeing halts all deliveries.
June 2, 2013: A sensor pressure detects overheating on one of its 787s.
June 23, 2013: United Airlines makes an emergency landing after a problem is discovered with the braking system.
July 12, 2013: An empty Ethiopian Airlines 787 develops a fire at London's Heathrow airport, which shuts down the entire airport temporarily. The fire was caused by a faulty battery.
July 18, 2013: A maintenance message onboard a JAL flight alerts to a fuel pump error.
July 22, 2013: An electrical panel grounds a Qatar Airways 787.
July 24, 2013: An investigation is launched after an oven overheats aboard an Air India flight.
July 26, 2013: Two ANA-operated Dreamliners are found to have faulty battery wiring, the same problem that caused the fire at Heathrow.
July 27, 2013: United Airlines discovers a problem with an emergency beacon.
Aug. 14, 2013: A fire extinguisher fault affecting three ANA airplanes, which was caused by a supplier assembly error.
Aug. 27, 2013: A problem with slats (extensions of the leading edge of the wing deployed, like the trailing-edge flaps, during takeoff and landing for added lift) forces a JAL 787 to turn back to Tokyo.
Sept. 19, 2013: A United Airlines 787 develops similar flaps problems and is forced to declare an emergency and land in Anchorage, Alaska.
Sept. 28, 2013: Norwegian Long Haul decided to take one of its two 787s out of service after the two aircraft broke down on more than six occasions in September.
Sept. 28, 2013: Technical problems with a transponder prompt a LOT Polish Airlines flight to make an emergency landing in Iceland.
Oct. 9, 2013: Electrical problems caused failed lavatories and the failure of in-flight anti-ice systems on a JAL aircraft, which returned to San Diego.
Nov. 16, 2013: A British Airways flight experiences hydraulic failure.
Dec. 20–22, 2013: Norwegian Long Haul experienced technical problems keeping two of its three 787 aircraft grounded at Fort Lauderdale airport and delayed six flights.
Jan. 14, 2014: Full Japan Airlines Dreamliner fleet grounded after more battery problems.
Jan. 19, 2014: Air India flight loses all transponders.
Jan. 19, 2014: A China Southern 787 receives multiple system messages, including flaps, nose gear landing, nose gear position, doors and brakes.
Jan. 21, 2014: A Norwegian Air Shuttle 787 experienced a fuel leak which caused a 19-hour delay to a flight from Bangkok to Oslo.
Feb. 5, 2014: All management computers fail aboard an Air India flight.
March 5, 2014: Cracks discovered on wings of 787s in production.
Sept 24, 2015: Indian media reported that an Air India 787 (VT-AND) had been grounded since January 2015 and had been scavenged for parts due to their lack of availability. Air India's aircraft engineers' body advised against accepting further deliveries until Boeing resolved reliability issues.
March 4, 2016: Ethiopian Airlines 787-8 registration ET-ASH from Addis Ababa to Rome, had its nose gear collapse. A flight attendant received minor injuries and the aircraft was damaged.
April 22, 2016: FAA issued an airworthiness directive following a Jan. 29 incident in which a General Electric GEnx-1B PIP2 engine suffered damage and non-restartable power loss while flying at an altitude of 20,000 feet.

Conclusion: PIA needs a reliable aircraft which should have a dispatch reliability of atleast 99 % or above like 777. If they can't provide that then look someplace else.If they still want to buy 787 then wait for 2-3 years so that its reliability could be cleared.

Something to consider for immediate future. Emirates is retiring 26 planes in 2016. The fleet Emirates is retiring has an Avg.15.7 years, well-below the average industry retirement age of 25 years. PIA can buy those and fly them for another 5-10 years.

P.S: The letter of Boeing to PM is totally a Joke as the PM of a country don't decides which plane to buy. So, since 787 program is facing Losses and they are desperate to sell more then "Daal main kuch Kala hay". If as per the letter we need to add charm for Privatization then why not buy A350 / A330 / 777X.