Boeing offers advanced 787 dreamliner to PIA

[krash]

Not to mention if you happen to sit in the middle of the economy class in a A380 the food will come to you late. The economy class is huge.

The rear is even worse, they ran out of chicken every time they reached me.

Well every plane carrier , can "specify" the configuration of seating they want for the plane
Every plane company is asked the configuration question and based on the needs the seats are configured

If PIA wants to cram people up in economy style setup that is just too old fashioned - it is negative for passenger satisfaction (specially on 10-15 hour flights)

The only thing 'new' would be if they really introduce High End configuration for seating for all plane

QUALITY vs number of seats , raise the standard of flight and passenger satisfaction

They can and exactly because of that it's never gonna happen. The passenger cramping is the modern trend, long gone are the days when flying was supposed to be glamorous, no matter how lavish the suites are on the new A380s. It's basic economics,

Operating aircraft, let alone airlines, has become a very expensive endeavour. You don't see big names tanking every other day just for nothing. To stay afloat airlines need to earn a certain amount of revenue every flight to keep it viable. In such a situation the operator has only two options 1) Increase the fair or 2) Maximise the number of passengers per flight, period. Hence, the revenue extraction schemes in air travel are some of the most vicious in all of the industries. The seat class differentiation is only a small part of extracting the maximum consumer surplus, systematic fluctuation in the fair (selective pricing) is the biggest. Keep this in mind when you realise that most of the travellers in the world are not well to do. The majority of the modern day travellers is far more concerned with the fair than they are with the comfort level of the seat. These travellers are (pretty much) already paying the maximum that they are willing to (selective pricing) and an increase in the fair would result in loss for the airlines. And it is exactly why an aircraft has a minuscule number of first and business class seats with higher fairs, fairs that would increase exponentially out of reach if the whole aircraft was fitted with them just to make the flight break even. Every extra square inch in a flight increases the fair, they even charge you more for the seats with more leg room in economy, e.g. exit row seats. Don't forget, despite the shoddy service, PIA is already not a cheap airline.

This is why airlines try to employ a combination of both option 1 and 2 with option 2 taking the much bigger share. All the airlines cramp there economy class and try to cramp their business class as much as they can.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I'm talking in general -.-
Nobody can put a gun to your head and tell you to buy a specific brand.
And we're going for 777s because we already operate several of them. 787 is an entirely new thing.

That's what I've written in my post.

you never said the a330 is part british!?
the a320's you guys have old and crap. heck the main fan has support ring.

 

[Moon]

you never said the a330 is part british!?

I meant in terms of worthiness of knowledge.
Look at your post, look at mine.

the a320's you guys have old and crap. heck the main fan has support ring.

BTW, not one A-320 operated by PIA has ever malfunctioned. Yet the 737 has had an embarrassing malfunction.

 

[baqai]

Dream Liner is plagued with problems since its inception, infact if you search for biggest product recalls you can read the case study of how dream liners were grounded because of problems, i for one would like PIA to stay clear of them

 

[Blue Marlin]

I meant in terms of worthiness of knowledge.
Look at your post, look at mine.



BTW, not one A-320 operated by PIA has ever malfunctioned. Yet the 737 has had an embarrassing malfunction.

look at the age differance. airline still operated 737-200's no wonder they crashed. the 737 clasic series are banned from european airspace. if im not mistaken a a320 over ran the runway

 

[Moon]

look at the age differance. airline still operated 737-200's no wonder they crashed. the 737 clasic series are banned from european airspace. if im not mistaken a a320 over ran the runway

Nope, I don't recall. A Russian made plane did overrun.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Nope, I don't recall. A Russian made plane did overrun.

it was a a320
http://www.jacdec.de/2016/08/08/201...0-off-runway-at-islamabad-due-engine-failure/

 

[untitled]

look at the age differance. airline still operated 737-200's no wonder they crashed. the 737 clasic series are banned from european airspace. if im not mistaken a a320 over ran the runway

Turbojet powered 737s were banned in EU because of noise issues.

A320s did have problems with its fly by wire systems initially

 

[Moon]

it was a a320
http://www.jacdec.de/2016/08/08/201...0-off-runway-at-islamabad-due-engine-failure/

Whilst a 737s landing gear collapsed.




(I accidentally read that as A330, my bad, yet still A-320s still have a better service record than their counterparts, let's leave it at that.)

 

[Blue Marlin]

Whilst a 737s landing gear collapsed.




(I accidentally read that as A330, my bad, yet still A-320s still have a better service record than their counterparts, let's leave it at that.)

the 737's they operated were 20+ years old. heck the 200 series were pushing 25+ what do you expect. the current 737ng have no had any recent landing gear failure. ng meaning the 700/800 and 900.

Turbojet powered 737s were banned in EU because of noise issues.

A320s did have problems with its fly by wire systems initially

and there age and the rate they were crashing. they are noisy which is why newer ll-76's have ps-90 engines as an example.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Why?

B-727 was a 3 engine aircraft. PIA opted to procure its replacement the B-737. In the 80's PIA was the first airline to fly the B-737-300.

B-757-200 was never required as PIA operated A-300's.
A-300-300 and B-767-200 were identical in range and payload.

When Boeing merged with McDonald Duglus Boeing had no option but to launch the latest MD-90 series aircraft by renaming it B-717. PIA was never an operator of MD-90 aircraft because B-737 was its competitor.

The thing which draws me to Airbus is that A-330-300 isn't even meant as a competition to the 787, yet it's specifications are already better, the actual competitor to the 787 is the A-350, which IMO is probably the best money can buy.

PIA already operates a fleet of A-330s I see nothing that stops us from choosing it over the 787.

PIA never operated A-330's. The first flight done by A-330 was on 14th Aug 2016.

A-320 is to compete with B-737
A330 is to compete with B-777
A340 is to compete with B-747
A350 is to compete with B-787
A-380 was to compete with a concept aircraft by McDonald Doglus.
http://www.airbus.com/company/history/the-narrative/

yes the a330 is a good reliable bird with many in service and with the upcomming a330 neo which is intended to rival the 787 family. as much as i like the a330 simply becasue a huge amount of the parts are made in the uk, wings brakes landing gear and engines and will be the only supplier of engines for the a330 neo.
the a330 neo is not in service yet so lets not get hung up on which is better. but i can only see the a330 being a good option as it has commonality with older airframes. even with the 747's you can use parts from the 747-400 and use them on the newer 747-8. i feel since the a330 neo is still in development they will try beat the performance of the 787 but remember the 787 is a clean sheet design the a330 has the same fusalage with newer wings and engine among other tid bits. in all i do see the a330 being a good option but the flexibilty of the 787 family in terms of seating is uncomparable to the a330 family. if you want to compete the like of the 787-9 then your looking at the a350 there which is a whole new bird.


im going to gloss over the part where you said boeing refuse to conver the 777 order into 737-800's instead as the 777 is a widebody jet whilse the 737 ng is a narrowbody jet.

you dont even know what your talking about the a330s tha pia has on the srilankan a330 ar rolls royce trent 700's the 777 pia ordered from boeing can only be powered by one specific variant of engine and thats the ge-90 115b the most powerfull engine ever.

PIA operated the trent 700 engines on one of the leased B-777's.

PIA wanted to converth the order of B-777's to B-737-800 because PIA had to replace the B-737-300's. PIA has not yet confirmed the delivery dates hence the money that is paid could have been used to convert them to any aircraft that Boeing manufactures.

In 2016 four B-777 orders have been canceled this is going to cause problems as B777 NG would start earlier. If PIA wishes they could opt for the B-777NG as this would be much easier.

Want to see PIA like this

5 Boeing 777 ER
5. Boeing 777 LR
2 Boeing 787- 200
5 Airbus. 330
2 Airbus 350
5 Airbus. 320

The minimum requirement to have effective and profitable fleet is to have 6-8 aircraft of a type.
B-777-200ER = A-330-300
B-777-200LR = A340-500
B-777-300ER = B-747-400 = A-340-600
B-787-9 = B-777-200ER = B-767-400 =A-330-200
B-787-8 = A-350
B-737-NG = A-320
B-737-9 = A-320 NG
Performance and capacity wise.

Its a beautiful plane. But I m not talking about just the looks. Its highly efficient. Made of composite materials and first aircraft ever made on a global supply chain. Extremely fuel efficient that PIA needs.

787 fits the flight distance profile to Europe, Middle East and Far East from Pakistan. While 777 will cover long distances like North America and Australia.

View attachment 326866

The B-777 also has composites...The only difference is B-777 was designed on paper using pencil whereas B-787 was all computer generated.

I meant in terms of worthiness of knowledge.
Look at your post, look at mine.



BTW, not one A-320 operated by PIA has ever malfunctioned. Yet the 737 has had an embarrassing malfunction.

PIA has just started operating A-320's. The first A-320 joined PIA last year.

B-737-300 came in 1983 and the last flight was in 2013 that is 30 years of operation.

A-320's have being in operation with various of airline operators in Pakistan and they have had a number of problems. The worst air accident in Pakistan also featured an A-321.

 

[RoadRunner401]

PIA Needs Aircraft ASAP

787 is a new Aircraft made with composite materials fuel efficient 300 Seating capacity it'll be a nice addition to our current fleet

View attachment 326763

Well when PIA can afford to buy these jetliners without taxpayers money they should go for it and that's not likely to happen until its privatized

 

[M. Sarmad]

It is right because premium service is launched by pakistan international airways subsidiary of PIA and these aIrframes will be transferred to subsidiary. I think they are taking control out of PIA employees to teach them leason. In future this subsidiary will take over parent company. Well played game. http://www.dawn.com/news/1240915

Note: if u look at the premium service aircraft u ll not find any PIA logo.

Pakistan Airways (registered in 2016) is not PIA (Pakistan International Airlines) which has had long, proud relationship with Boeing, dating back to 1960s (sic).. or is it ?

 

[cloud4000]

Well when PIA can afford to buy these jetliners without taxpayers money they should go for it and that's not likely to happen until its privatized

PIA is already funded by taxpayer money. As a state-owned enterprise it receives subsides from the government. Granted if PIA wants to procure 787s, it may need the government to guarantee the loan to purchase them.

In 2016 four B-777 orders have been canceled this is going to cause problems as B777 NG would start earlier. If PIA wishes they could opt for the B-777NG as this would be much easier.

Or if it wants to buy used 777s, it can easily to do so. Not only are they plentiful but inexpensive. PIA has the pilots and infrastructure in place to handle them. In fact, one of their recently acquired 777 was an used aircraft.

The B-777 also has composites...The only difference is B-777 was designed on paper using pencil whereas B-787 was all computer generated.

Not true. From Wikipedia page:

"It was also the first commercial aircraft to be designed entirely with computer-aided design."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777

A-320's have being in operation with various of airline operators in Pakistan and they have had a number of problems. The worst air accident in Pakistan also featured an A-321.

But the accident was due to pilot error, nothing intrinsically wrong with the aircraft itself. It's a good aircraft operated by countless airlines around the world.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Or if it wants to buy used 777s, it can easily to do so. Not only are they plentiful but inexpensive. PIA has the pilots and infrastructure in place to handle them. In fact, one of their recently acquired 777 was an used aircraft.

Yes they can get used but they also have the option of getting new ones.

The Aviation policy 2015 restricts the minimum and maximum age of aircraft.

To register an aircraft it has to be not older than 12 years and the final date ai aircraft can be operated on commercial flight is 20 years.

Not true. From Wikipedia page:

"It was also the first commercial aircraft to be designed entirely with computer-aided design."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777

Wiki is not a reliable source...
Here is a link to how Boeing 777 was designed and made.

But the accident was due to pilot error, nothing intrinsically wrong with the aircraft itself. It's a good aircraft operated by countless airlines around the world.

What ever the cause may be it still remains an accident of A-321 and the worst one for Pakistan.