BMD tested successfully

[waz]

Usually BMD will trigger an offensive nuke missile from our end.

Nightmare situation for pak. Their missile get intercepted ( even if 10% ). Ours will reduce them to ashes.

Once again congrats india. We can sleep safe.

That 10% won't even happen. The only time we have seen a successful interception was of the old scuds via the patriot. Even then, many got through. You can bring up the advances in technology, but do remember there was a large gap between what Iraq fired and what the coalition used to defend itself.

As for being reduced to ashes, you have no such weapon, don't make silly statements on here. You'l receive multiple Pakistani warheads in return, and I haven't included what will be fired from the sea at you.

 

[RISING SUN]

Boss why are u pulling g's in space? There is no gravity in space

It is required to compensate any deviations in terminal stage of interception. Missile engine doesn't do it independently, there are tools specifically to achieve it there.

 

[The Deterrent]

Which again refers to same parameters that until it does the re-entry, it is easier to intercept it than when it has already entered the atmosphere. If you have a ABM which can pull respected degree of g in space, it does have a good probability of successful interception. A boost phase interception is far easier to do than a mid course and again mid course is far more easy to intercept largely due to fixed flight ballistic path/trajectory.

I was replying to the idea that MIRVs are somehow no longer a threat.

Not really. Mid-course has its own challenges, identifying real MIRVs in the midst of decoys and chaff is whole new ball-game. Terminal is easier in the sense that the real RVs are easily identifiable as most of the decoys burn up. And absolutely wrong about boost-phase when you think of the operational constraints. Its easy to visualize an airborne laser taking out a missile in boost phase, but keeping an active fleet of such expensive aircrafts near a hostile environment is too costly. Read up on the Boeing YAL-1, and why it was cancelled.

 

[RISING SUN]

That 10% won't even happen. The only time we have seen a successful interception was of the old scuds via the patriot. Even then, many got through. You can bring up the advances in technology, but do remember there was a large gap between what Iraq fired and what the coalition used to defend itself.

As for being reduced to ashes, you have no such weapon, don't make silly statements on here. You'l receive multiple Pakistani warheads in return, and I haven't included what will be fired from the sea at you.

Mate is it not far generalized statement like @Ajaxpaul has made as well, though I believe we all are not qualified to make such sweeping statements. I far one don't like even knife/gun attack in real life, forget about nukes.

I was replying to the idea that MIRVs are somehow no longer a threat.

Not really. Mid-course has its own challenges, identifying real MIRVs in the midst of decoys and chaff is whole new ball-game. Terminal is easier in the sense that the real RVs are easily identifiable as most of the decoys burn up. And absolutely wrong about boost-phase when you think of the operational constraints. Its easy to visualize an airborne laser taking out a missile in boost phase, but keeping an active fleet of such expensive aircrafts near a hostile environment is too costly. Read up on the Boeing YAL-1, and why it was cancelled.

Not only MIRV but even simple missile packed with nuke is a considerable threat.. If someone doesn't take that seriously, the person will put life in risk. MIRV can have multiple warheads and it can fly to some distance targets however MCC can order the battery to intercept all separate warheads irrespective of decoys or real warhead. That is far much cheaper than a nuke intercepted and life saved. In regards to laser based ballistic missile interception, I will refrain from making sweeping statements.

 

[rockstarIN]

Any BMD capability is a good achievement looking at the technical difficulties.
But should Pakistan worry? Not yet.
May be the system is dangerous for our SRBM such as Abdali and Ghaznavi , but not for anything else.


But Re-entry speed is proportional to Launch speed

The interceptor missile does not need to have the same or excess speed than the attacking missile.

It was once best explained by @gambit in a thread in Brahmos Vs Barak 8 scenario.

 

[waz]

Mate is it not far generalized statement like @Ajaxpaul has made as well, though I believe we all are not qualified to make such sweeping statements. I far one don't like even knife/gun attack in real life, forget about nukes.

Of course, all such statements are silly mate.

 

[The Deterrent]

Not only MIRV but even simple missile packed with nuke is a considerable threat.. If someone doesn't take that seriously, the person will put life in risk. MIRV can have multiple warheads and it can fly to some distance targets however MCC can order the battery to intercept all separate warheads irrespective of decoys or real warhead. That is far much cheaper than a nuke intercepted and life saved. In regards to laser based ballistic missile interception, I will refrain from making sweeping statements.

And that's precisely what overpowers/saturates a BMD. If one ballistic missile threat has the capability to initiate more than 10 ABM launches in response, its doing its job pretty well.

 

[Ajaxpaul]

Of course, all such statements are silly mate.

If it was the sweeping generalised statement then I apologize.

 

[Kinetic]

And that's precisely what overpowers/saturates a BMD. If one ballistic missile threat has the capability to initiate more than 10 ABM launches in response, its doing its job pretty well.

That will depend on the costs and size of the economy.

1) How many BMD or S-400 we can field with our money.

2) How many enemy missiles IAF can destroy initially with SEAD operations by MKI, Rafale and FGFA.

S-400 (12 systems) when deployed....

Missile has the capability to cross 150+ kms in altitude with a specified g, missile can pull in space, that might be the reason he mentioned it. However wait for sometime, there are two big project coming online by the time this government term ends.

I am waiting for K-5, Agni-6 and Pralay missiles.

 

[RISING SUN]

And that's precisely what overpowers/saturates a BMD. If one ballistic missile threat has the capability to initiate more than 10 ABM launches in response, its doing its job pretty well.

I don't see that way as user can use this kind of capability for multiple purposes including anti missile capability. For saturating a country one needs to fire missiles upward of radar capability. And it is general information that getting maximum limit information of such critical radars is very difficult. It also helps in conventional warfare as well due to sheer amount raw concentrated energy.

That will depend on the costs and size of the economy.

1) How many BMD or S-400 we can field with our money.

2) How many enemy missiles IAF can destroy initially with SEAD operations by MKI, Rafale and FGFA.

S-400 (12 systems) when deployed....

I am waiting for K-5, Agni-6 and Pralay missiles.

I am hinting about BMD capability here, not strike missiles.

That will depend on the costs and size of the economy.

1) How many BMD or S-400 we can field with our money.

2) How many enemy missiles IAF can destroy initially with SEAD operations by MKI, Rafale and FGFA.

S-400 (12 systems) when deployed....

I am waiting for K-5, Agni-6 and Pralay missiles.

1. Number of battery and S400 is important but there early detection capability is more critical which leads to data which is enough to provide tracking and ultimately guidance solutions. So number of LRTR matters more than other components.
2. Unable to make an statement as not much variables factored in.

 

[Mrc]

following are penetration aids deployed by topol M holy grail of ABM penetraters

1- very high speed
2- mid course decoys and chaff
3-MIRV
4- manoeuvrable making it difficult to predict the course even the target....

I think Pakistan is well on top of game.....

MIRV Alone can overwhelm most of systems....
now combine this with a 3 diementional air land and sea launched attack and throw cruise missiles into the mix with a lot of old missiles as decoys.... and bingo.....

ghauri series is susceptible to intercept though

 

[Kinetic]

1. Number of battery and S400 is important but there early detection capability is more critical which leads to data which is enough to provide tracking and ultimately guidance solutions. So number of LRTR matters more than other components.
2. Unable to make an statement as not much variables factored in.

1. Number of LRTR does not matters much because LRTR can process 100s of targets at the same time.
2. But this is the real scenario. IAF will target the ballistic missile bases with full force to destroy them during initial hours of any war. Kh-31 PD, Kh-35, HARM and Brahmos will rain on those targets. Only the remaining could be fired.

 

[RISING SUN]

following are penetration aids deployed by topol M holy grail of ABM penetraters

1- very high speed
2- mid course decoys and chaff
3-MIRV
4- manoeuvrable making it difficult to predict the course even the target....

I think Pakistan is well on top of game.....

MIRV Alone can overwhelm most of systems....
now combine this with a 3 diementional air land and sea launched attack and throw cruise missiles into the mix with a lot of old missiles as decoys.... and bingo.....

ghauri series is susceptible to intercept though

Kindly find the rebutted given below.
1- very high speed-Speed is not much of concern in head on interception.
2- mid course decoys and chaff-There are techniques already in tech market to differentiate between real warhead from decoys. In regards to chaffs, even IEEE has also presented paper how to counter chaff in space.
3-MIRV - MIRV in terminal phase is to overwhelm the BMD maximum limit. What is the maximum limit of enemy RADAR, is difficult to lay hands on. Until then MIRV has theoretically not much chance to create a threat simply because its prime objective is to overload the BMD limit.
4- maneuverable making it difficult to predict the course even the target....That is certainly a threat worth money invested in BMD. However super maneuverability is achieved once re-entry/terminal phase is reached simply to maximize chance of escaping multitude of anti missile systems by conserving the most for final stage.

1. Number of LRTR does not matters much because LRTR can process 100s of targets at the same time.
2. But this is the real scenario. IAF will target the ballistic missile bases with full force to destroy them during initial hours of any war. Kh-31 PD, Kh-35, HARM and Brahmos will rain on those targets. Only the remaining could be fired.

1. Yes it does matter as opponent will not be sending hundred of missiles, rather it will be in thousand and only few of them will have nuke weapons on board. This theory is made on the promise of MAD.
2. It is real scenario, OK. How will Indian military decide that Pakistan is preparing for first strike and thus creating environment of first strike to limit the damage. Say for they have all nukes in subs/underground silos dispersed all around the country. How India is going to achieve that without first achieving the air superiority over Pakistani air space? If India comes to know that Pakistan is going to initiate first strike, then without waiting for their launch India can launch but how will it come to know that. Care to explain.

 

[Kinetic]

1. Yes it does matter as opponent will not be sending hundred of missiles, rather it will be in thousand and only few of them will have nuke weapons on board. This theory is made on the promise of MAD.
2. It is real scenario, OK. How will Indian military decide that Pakistan is preparing for first strike and thus creating environment of first strike to limit the damage. Say for they have all nukes in subs/underground silos dispersed all around the country. How India is going to achieve that without first achieving the air superiority over Pakistani air space? If India comes to know that Pakistan is going to initiate first strike, then without waiting for their launch India can launch but how will it come to know that. Care to explain.

1. 100 ballistic missiles costs atleast 5 billion, please check Pakistan's budget.

2. IAF with FGFA, MKI, Rafale, Darin-iv, Mig-29UPG, Mirage-2009, LCA-1A backed by S-400, LRSAM, SPYDER, Akash, QRSAM, how many days do you think will take for air superiority? Also do we need to even go inside Pakistan to launch missile? Brahmos and Kh-31 or Kh-35 has 300 km range. Its not easy to sprea nuke missile across the country for a small landmass like Pakistan.

And India need not to launch first strike neither need to know if Pakistan going to launch or not. The first target of the IAF will be Nuclear and BM launch sites. then other military bases.

 

[Safriz]

Pakistani Warheads are released very late from PBV .
The PBV of all Shaheen series have sideways motors to keep changing trajectory. Black circles below the warhead are the sideways rocket motors for course correction and multiple trajectory change while in space.
Also not ethe reduction in warhead size fron S-2 to S-3 and same being used in S-1A and Ababeel. Reduced size meand reduced surface area,and that means low radar reflection surafce,making it difficult to detect and track,also higher apeeds after Re-entry due to reduces friction.

The sideways motors also visible in 1999 built Shaheen-1.
The Post boost vehicle also has fins which may be indication of the PBV actually entering upper atmosphere along with the RV or warhead, and late release of Warhead,hence itself acting as a decoy and also helping in changing trajectory by firing sideways motors.
Obviously it's been 18 years since the type of PBV was developed so there must have been many upgrades

Later version the Shaheen-1A has no fins but a very small warhead mounted on a much larger PBV.

Also look at Nasr.
First thing is there is viably very large space or electronics,actuators and Warhead. The front fins are movable and change trajectory multiple times,making it very difficult to track the missile.

Also we have no data about at what speed the Indian radars can track an RV or missile,because that is important.
Detection and tracking are two different things. You can detect anything at any speed,but tracking has limits. Even S-400 has limits.