BMD tested successfully

[Hellfire]

Really, the typical Indian mentality of washing the soap before hands on display again, remember what you people were mouthing off when Tejas first flew some 20 years earlier, but i guess you creatures never learn. One test and you think you have achieved it all......it's easy to target a missile when you know exactly which direction and when it's flying, not something that will strike out of the blue....weekend warriors and their wet dreams. LoL.

And I hope you do recall it is a ballistic missile defence and NOT a cruise missile or a projectile based defence system that is being referred to and a ballistic missile launch is detected by satellites quite easily, even with cloud cover?

Oh forget it .. you aptly summed it ... weekend warriors and their wet dreams.

@Robinhood Pandey @Bad Guy

The irony indeed......

you guys have absolutely no idea what you are talking about...

an ABM missile travelling at mac 3 mac 4 may be 5 is trying to hit a re entry vehicle travelling at mac 15 or mac 20... that means you cannot chase it... its three times faster than the interceptor.

what ABM does is to calculate the ballistic trajectory and contemplates where it would be at said time and send its interceptor for head on collision....

if the target missile changes its ballistic trajectory (df series, shaheen series, topol M) , whole calculations are finished. all these missiles change their trajectory several times before re entry..... final trajectory gives a raction time of not more than 30 seconds....

now go figure

It does not need to chase, it's head on velocity will be great .... a hit to kill will use the KE also .... please dont assume that the target missile will have the time to evade at that high relative velocity ... what nonsense


Anyways a moot point

 

[RISING SUN]

1. 100 ballistic missiles costs atleast 5 billion, please check Pakistan's budget.

2. IAF with FGFA, MKI, Rafale, Darin-iv, Mig-29UPG, Mirage-2009, LCA-1A backed by S-400, LRSAM, SPYDER, Akash, QRSAM, how many days do you think will take for air superiority? Also do we need to even go inside Pakistan to launch missile? Brahmos and Kh-31 or Kh-35 has 300 km range. Its not easy to sprea nuke missile across the country for a small landmass like Pakistan.

And India need not to launch first strike neither need to know if Pakistan going to launch or not. The first target of the IAF will be Nuclear and BM launch sites. then other military bases.

1. If it is about MAD, nobody cares about 50 billion dollars. Hope that is taken in correct context.
2 It is first and foremost rule of increasing serviceability of silos from nuclear strike by opponents. And you didn't reply my query how India was going to confirm first strike by Pakistan as we have NFU policy.

http://breakingdefense.com/2016/04/why-we-still-need-those-nuclear-missile-silos/

 

[Safriz]

Look at the Thrust of Israeli Arrow 2 and compare it to Indian PDV weak thrust.
Yet Indians claim better specs

 

[Mrc]

Kindly find the rebutted given below.
1- very high speed-Speed is not much of concern in head on interception.
2- mid course decoys and chaff-There are techniques already in tech market to differentiate between real warhead from decoys. In regards to chaffs, even IEEE has also presented paper how to counter chaff in space.
3-MIRV - MIRV in terminal phase is to overwhelm the BMD maximum limit. What is the maximum limit of enemy RADAR, is difficult to lay hands on. Until then MIRV has theoretically not much chance to create a threat simply because its prime objective is to overload the BMD limit.
4- maneuverable making it difficult to predict the course even the target....That is certainly a threat worth money invested in BMD. However super maneuverability is achieved once re-entry/terminal phase is reached simply to maximize chance of escaping multitude of anti missile systems by conserving the most for final stage.

Kindly find the rebutted given below.
1- very high speed-Speed is not much of concern in head on interception.
2- mid course decoys and chaff-There are techniques already in tech market to differentiate between real warhead from decoys. In regards to chaffs, even IEEE has also presented paper how to counter chaff in space.
3-MIRV - MIRV in terminal phase is to overwhelm the BMD maximum limit. What is the maximum limit of enemy RADAR, is difficult to lay hands on. Until then MIRV has theoretically not much chance to create a threat simply because its prime objective is to overload the BMD limit.
4- maneuverable making it difficult to predict the course even the target....That is certainly a threat worth money invested in BMD. However super maneuverability is achieved once re-entry/terminal phase is reached simply to maximize chance of escaping multitude of anti missile systems by conserving the most for final stage.


1. Yes it does matter as opponent will not be sending hundred of missiles, rather it will be in thousand and only few of them will have nuke weapons on board. This theory is made on the promise of MAD.
2. It is real scenario, OK. How will Indian military decide that Pakistan is preparing for first strike and thus creating environment of first strike to limit the damage. Say for they have all nukes in subs/underground silos dispersed all around the country. How India is going to achieve that without first achieving the air superiority over Pakistani air space? If India comes to know that Pakistan is going to initiate first strike, then without waiting for their launch India can launch but how will it come to know that. Care to explain.

speed is important caz its related to your radars ability to track.. any thing faster than mach 15 can be presumed to be untrackable

mid course decoys are deployed in space. even radar reflective balloons can be made to look exactly like warhead and would travel at same speed as war head in state of weightlessness in space..

mirv would give many warheads per missile. it will not over whelm radar (speed should do that) it will over whelm the capacity of your launchers... you don't have a chance to re load

manouverability... yes ...whole idea of defeating an ABM would rest on keep making the defender guessing to maximum time thus reducing the response time... if warhead changes trajectory several times especially just before re entry.... at mach 15, war head will take 20-25 seconds to impact.... that's a ridiculously low response time to calculate the final trajectory and get an interceptor in its way (speed is important here too)...

with passage of time you might see a back firing motor (in addition to already present side firing ones, on shaheen and ababeel, which are responsible for changing trajectory) to increase speed further.....

And I hope you do recall it is a ballistic missile defence and NOT a cruise missile or a projectile based defence system that is being referred to and a ballistic missile launch is detected by satellites quite easily, even with cloud cover?

Oh forget it .. you aptly summed it ... weekend warriors and their wet dreams.

@Robinhood Pandey @Bad Guy

The irony indeed......




It does not need to chase, it's head on velocity will be great .... a hit to kill will use the KE also .... please dont assume that the target missile will have the time to evade at that high relative velocity ... what nonsense


Anyways a moot point

you have to put interceptor in the path of a warhead flying at 4 times its own speed.... if the warhead changes path just before re-entry how are you going to that in final 20 seconds...

I hope you understand what non sense means

 

[proud_indian]

 

[Crixus]

At least get some thing Chinese or Pakistani system to compare with AAD and PAD .... Really for you guys also Israel is bench mark

View attachment 376323

Look at the Thrust of Israeli Arrow 2 and compare it to Indian PDV weak thrust.
Yet Indians claim better specs

 

[hussain0216]

speed is important caz its related to your radars ability to track.. any thing faster than mach 15 can be presumed to be untrackable

mid course decoys are deployed in space. even radar reflective balloons can be made to look exactly like warhead and would travel at same speed as war head in state of weightlessness in space..

mirv would give many warheads per missile. it will not over whelm radar (speed should do that) it will over whelm the capacity of your launchers... you don't have a chance to re load

manouverability... yes ...whole idea of defeating an ABM would rest on keep making the defender guessing to maximum time thus reducing the response time... if warhead changes trajectory several times especially just before re entry.... at mach 15, war head will take 20-25 seconds to impact.... that's a ridiculously low response time to calculate the final trajectory and get an interceptor in its way (speed is important here too)...

with passage of time you might see a back firing motor (in addition to already present side firing ones, on shaheen and ababeel, which are responsible for changing trajectory) to increase speed further.....




you have to put interceptor in the path of a warhead flying at 4 times its own speed.... if the warhead changes path just before re-entry how are you going to that in final 20 seconds...

I hope you understand what non sense means

Its that ability for the Shaheen series missiles to change its trajectory that will be lethal to Indian BMD before we even get onto MIRV

 

[Mrc]

Its that ability for the Shaheen series missiles to change its trajectory that will be lethal to Indian BMD before we even get onto MIRV

another thing is stealth shaping of the warhead, that was adopted for shaheen 1a for the first time. in excellent posts above shaheen missile has shown how war head has become 40% shorter over the years, which means less reflective surface, less friction and more speed. shaheen 1a warhead was not trackable even by own radars its claimed

 

[Safriz]

May I point out That this is prototype 03 of Indian PDV and had many changes from PDV 01?
I won't be specific, but Indian members here can spend some time and look at the pics below , point out the improvement and write the reasons, definitions and speculations.

 

[Kinetic]

View attachment 376323

Look at the Thrust of Israeli Arrow 2 and compare it to Indian PDV weak thrust.
Yet Indians claim better specs

See the newer Arrow 3 has as weak thrust as PDV.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Arrow-3_Jan-03-2013_(c).jpg

 

[Safriz]

See the newer Arrow 3 has as weak thrust as PDV.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Arrow-3_Jan-03-2013_(c).jpg

You Indians are hopelessly weak at good arguments.
You could say that high thrust and high Mach speed within atmosphere will cover the missile in plasma and make communication impossible.
That's why first stage thrust on a BMD is kept weak if it needs communication with Radars while within atmosphere.

 

[Mrc]

You Indians are hopelessly weak at good arguments.
You could say that high thrust and high Mach speed within atmosphere will cover the missile in plasma and make communication impossible.
That's why first stage thrust on a BMD is kept weak if it needs communication with Radars while within atmosphere.

there is a lot of Israeli help going on with this indian project.....we need to be aware

 

[Safriz]

there is a lot of Israeli help going on with this indian project.....we need to be aware

Surely there is.
Look at new antenna positions and the possibly sideways thrusters. None of this was present on PDV 01

 

[Mrc]

Surely there is.
Look at new antenna positions and the possibly sideways thrusters. None of this was present on PDV 01

hypersonic glide vehicle for within atmospheric manoeuvring, Pakistan should start working on it

 

[Nilgiri]

The assumption that MIRVs are deployed just prior to reentry is flawed. The fact is that MIRVs begin deployment as soon as the the boost phase finishes and the PBV corrects the trajectory, to achieve maximum spread (if needed).

As stupid as this example may sound, its kind of like the blue bird which splits into 3 in Angry Birds. There is absolutely no compulsion to deploy them just before reentry, as the vehicle is already out of the atmosphere by the time boost phase terminates and everything is ballistic from thereon.

Indeed....complete BMD can only be achieved by much higher altitude interception given MIRV seperation at highest altitude.

But PDV covers most if not all of current Pakistan options (when PDV system is ramped up), given I believe Pakistan has no true MIRV (Ababeel argument does not change anything if one looks at the math), much less countermeasures for them.

Counterforce and BMD will be staggered and layered by India in the years to come.