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Well, the opposite side was supported by another super-power US. Also Soviets never broadened the theatre to Pakistan unlike US/NATO which talk about extending it to quetta through drones.

Soviets would most likely have tried taking over Pakistan as well, given our access to Arabian sea. We had to act quick, before any minority pro-soviet elements in Pakistan could gain any voice.

It was a good cause, considering the behaviour of the communists in Afghanistan.

As for theatre:

DAWN.COM | World | No hot pursuit in Pakistan: Gates


This time everyone: Russia, China, India, Iran and US want Afghanistan to stay stable.

None of these countries except China Iran and Pakistan share a border with Afghanistan. Therefore our concerns are more relevant. Though Iran supported NA, we have a mutual interest to see the end of the drugs trade --which is having a bad effect on the region.

It was actually taleban that brought stability, which is why they were welcomed in the first place. They did make some silly mistakes though and it cost them later on.

Only Pakistan wants US to get away.

Pakistanis are not enemies of the US. But we want what is best for our region, and this is withdrawal of all foreign forces from Afghanistan.

We arent linear. Some do want this, some dont. I personally think withdrawal is the only option. A troops surge wont bring any changes at all. It will be just a band aid solution. Not change the eventual result, i.e. US and NATO will exit from Afghanistan and Taliban will rule the country again. This so simple and verifable from the achievements of the last 8 years, what dent they have done to Taliban, except killing the innocent civilians and few Taliban’s perhaps.

Overall the west is a loser where ever, they have tried to venture with sheer power. Vietnam, Iraq, Somalia and Afghanistan.

Only Afghans are no match to collective resolve of world powers and its neighbours. Also, the common Afghanis are against the foreign rule and not supportive of talibani rule. India enjoys a favourable image and hence may not be seen as an occupier force unlike the present NATO/US.

they banned channels that were showing "bollywood" musicals....nuff said.


by the way, "Afghanis" refers to the national currency of Afghanistan. The adjective used to describe the people of Afghanistan would be AFGHANS

Thats the reason for 30k surge. And if Indian forces join, more boots on ground, then they can control.

what happened to the soviets when they increased their presense? :)

i think you dont know the history of Afghanistan too well. It is showing.


Safe Logistics, favourable image due to exemplary civic building work, same sub-continental features, hence less resentment, respect for Afghani culture...etc..etc.

I doubt Pakistan would allow indians to fly over the air space.

Ship routes can prove risky, and too expensive to be worth it. Cheapest way is only by road. 70% of the goods Afghanistan imports are coming from the southern ports


BTW, India's COIN abilities are the best. US comes to practice mountain warfare with IA, did you know that?


so why can't you beat the naxal farmers in 20/28 indian states? Looks like they blew up a few schools a few days back (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...adies-for-polls-today/articleshow/5297914.cms) and are always killing soldiers and law enforcement officers in Bihar?

You should take care of this "single biggest threat to india" (as your PM dubbed it) before even contemplating sending troops to a land totally foreign to them.


Well, Indian forces dont fight their own people unlike PA. Naxalites, though extremists are still Indians.

so why are they killing "fellow indians" :cheers:

People born in Pakistan who fight the Army or the people are not Pakistanis. They surrendered that honour. PA is fighting all anti-state elements, and they're doing a damn good job (if you are following the news properly)


Ranjith Singh could perhaps have been the next emperor of India but for the arrival of British. Anyway, he showed that Afghanistan can be conquered and subjugated.

doubtful...moot point anyways, the Muslims were blessed with Partition. The patriotic non-Muslims adopted a new nationality.

Since then, no invaders.....

The Sikhs bhaiyon aar bayno come here to visit their holy sites and enjoy our warm hospitality. :)

Actually, according to the official map of India, India does share border with Afghanistan, it is just that you have occupied that part of Kashmir.

Official map of india? :rofl:

We're occupying Kashmir? Why is it that Pakistani Kashmir sees hardly any social problems or insurgencies; whereas indian Kashmir is often seeing riots and calls for independence? Including the Sri Nagar example i gave


So, it is our backyard

nope. Not at all.


US itself is giving us a window of opportuninty but one their terms, if we play the game right, then we will get it on our terms. As for Chinese, they are in a fix as far as Afghanistan is concerned.

Once the Americans are gone, shouldnt be a problem for the Chinese. As it is, Chinese already won a contract to partake in the largest FDI initiative in the war-torn country (Aynak copper field)


And Pakistan, you are the war theatre, boss.

That is true. But as was the case in 1980s, i think once again we will reap the benefits in the long run if we play our cards right. The Afghans do need us for their trade & economy; that is why Karzai expressed his unhappiness that we were planning to build a seperation wall along the long porous border.




You want to gain by shooing away the yankees and then going back to your erstwhile arrangement of occupying Afghanistan through Talibs. All your calculations are based on the american retreat(if ever it happens).

Technically, we are a major non-NATO ally. Why should we "shoot away yankees" ??

Taleban were mostly Afghans, so i dont see how you can justify calling their tenure an "occupation"

after the civil war, they brought many good reforms to the country. Their only problem was that they gave impugnity to the foreign fighters who should have been re-patriated. They also were using some objectionable methods to punish criminals and law breakers (similar to the Northern Alliance)

Ideally, there should be two states. One for the Pashtuns and one for the Tajiks. The pashtuns can have both sides of durand.

I'd have no problem with that. Depends on the will of Afghans. It's an ancient country, would be sad to see it break up.


Good taliban, eh? All the best! One has to confess that KSA does have levers to control, but would it be success is to be seen.

GID and ISI are working to create a bridge between moderate taleban and the NATO forces. Americans already gave the 'green-light' for 'talks'

:)

And we are in a position to make Karzai listen to us. We have supported them even before the NATO/US came in.

have fun with that....see how much credibility he has in the Afghan (sorry, KABUL) street


You are only looking at last 300years of history and everyone failed there. But the last time an Indian tried it, Ranjith Singh, he was an enormous success. Even before that India had for many centuries occupied Afganistan.

and the Mughal Empire controlled hindoostan. Those were days of glory.

your point?


history is history. It's good to LEARN from history. Afghans have never really been united, due to the tribal and polarized nature of the society. But they always united against occupiers, and they always won.

the militarily superior soviets were humiliated and forced to abandon their weapons and run away, after a nice prolonged exposure to the mujahideen


A productive and conducive environment for a stable and prosperous Afghanistan is only feasible when foreign forces withdraw. What they should have done 8 years ago, they did not. Now exit strategy is the ONLY strategy. Let the Afghans control their affairs and their country. The investment and the aid projects must come in once security is established and a credible govt. establishes peace and unity throughout the nation

the same way U.S. doesnt want anti-American terrorists to roam freely in the region, we dont want (and we will NEVER allow) anti-Pakistani terrorists to roam freely in the region.

We have the ability and the will to ensure that never happens.



You are either WITH Pakistan/Kashmir, or AGAINST Pakistan/Kashmir.


and if you are AGAINST Pakistan/Kashmir, then there are 170+ million people to confront.
 
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Abu your question about IA against naxals. Unlike Pakistan in India army cannot interfare in state affairs unless asked, so far this not been done. One of the reason is strategy is been worked out. Naxals are not even 10% of taliban is, they do not attack in cities. The day they do will be their end.
 
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I look forward to your reply, indian.

It's interesting how one can get exhausted over a difference of opinion. Get some rest, then come back when you're ready to have your points ridiculed again.
 
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Abu your question about IA against naxals..............Naxals are not even 10% of taliban is, they do not attack in cities. The day they do will be their end.

so indian soldiers dont attack back when they are attacked??? What kind of soldiers are they?

According to your Chidambaram, they are also aiding secessionists and northeast insurgents (Maoists seeking ties with northeast insurgents: Chidambaram - India - The Times of India)


Here are some links (mostly indian ones, for your comfort) which basically debunk everything you have said. MANY MANY more where that came from; these are some of the recent ones

12 policemen killed in Naxal blast in Chhattisgarh - India - The Times of India

Maoist held for Nalco mine attack - India - The Times of India

Now, Maoists blow up police building in Gaya - Patna - City - The Times of India

WB: Maoists trigger blasts, kill 3 - India - The Times of India

20% voting till 11 am in Malkangiri re-poll

Ten killed in landmine blast in Chhattisgarh - India - The Times of India

The Hindu News Update Service

The Hindu News Update Service

One person killed, 3 CRPF men injured in landmine blast in Jharkhand - India - The Times of India

40,000 sq km under Naxal control, govt tells Par panel - India - The Times of India

16 cops killed in Maharashtra Naxal ambush - India - The Times of India

Maoists gun down CPI(M) leader

BBC NEWS | South Asia | India Maoist violence escalates

fullstory

12 injured as train derails after Maoists blast track in Jharkhand - India - The Times of India



"they do not attack in cities. The day they do will be their end"


:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
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I look forward to your reply, indian.

It's interesting how one can get exhausted over a difference of opinion. Get some rest, then come back when you're ready to have your points ridiculed again.

ha ha...ridicule at your own risk, mate. It hardly matters to me. Well, I am new to these forums and all this stuff, its kind of exhausting. Anyway, your post does not have many valid points. You have only replied for the sake of it.

Let me try to answer them briefly:

Just because you are a neighbour does not give you any special privilege especially after what you have done there when that area was left to you. Iran supports NA, we support it, Russia does. US/NATA support it right now, they have no other choice. China is caught in between. Pakistan is the theatre. Top leadership of Balochis are in quetta according to US and US will drone those places.

Pakistan wants US to get out of here, so that you can do what you did earlier. That option is not available to others, so other nations will not leave Afghanistan at your mercy.

Afghanis!I use the word in hindi context, you know Pakistan-pakistanis, Afghanistan-afghanis...etc, I do know that the currency of Afghanistan is also called Afghani, it was earlier afghani ruppee, you know it used to be compared to Indian ruppee earlier, later it was changed to dollar.

Afghanis(ppl, not currency), love india and specially bollywood, even today they talk about old hindi movies.

Soviets failed. So everyone else will. That is your point. I dont agree. Soviets were fighting a proxy war with US. Today no one is fighting a proxy war with US. US is being supported by other powers. So, the surge has greater chances of success.

The road route is of course better than the naval one, but the road route right now is more dangerous(due to Pakistani taliban) then the naval one. Chahabar can play a wonderful role if Indian troops land in Afghanistan.

Again, you missed my point completely. Naxals are Indians but extremists. They will be dealt by state police and CRPF. Army does not get involved. Unlike Pakistan, in India army is not the solution to everything. I hope I am clear.

You tried to portray Afghanistan as an unconquerable landmass/ppl, I said in the history Indian kings have done successfully(ex: Ranjith Singh), so India has been successful in the past.

Official map of India shows that India is a neighbour of Afghanistan but Pakistan has occupied that landmass. Whether you disagree or agree with it is irrelevant because Official Indian map is not going to change. And the entire sub-continent is our backyard, you guys tried strategic depth, you failed. You created a mess, we are ready to clean it up if they give us control over it.

India would want a strong nationlistic Afghanistan to be established. For that we are building them civic amenities and also training their army, we are giving them huge aid. We can also 'protect' them if need be from neighbours like Pakistan and their 'strategic depth'.

..hmm...see, it was exhausting to say the whole thing again just to prove that I am not running away.:hitwall:
 
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ha ha...ridicule at your own risk, mate. It hardly matters to me. Well, I am new to these forums and all this stuff, its kind of exhausting. Anyway, your post does not have many valid points. You have only replied for the sake of it.

Let me try to answer them briefly:

Just because you are a neighbour does not give you any special privilege especially after what you have done there when that area was left to you. Iran supports NA, we support it, Russia does. US/NATA support it right now, they have no other choice. China is caught in between. Pakistan is the theatre. Top leadership of Balochis are in quetta according to US and US will drone those places.

Pakistan wants US to get out of here, so that you can do what you did earlier. That option is not available to others, so other nations will not leave Afghanistan at your mercy.

Afghanis!I use the word in hindi context, you know Pakistan-pakistanis, Afghanistan-afghanis...etc, I do know that the currency of Afghanistan is also called Afghani, it was earlier afghani ruppee, you know it used to be compared to Indian ruppee earlier, later it was changed to dollar.

Afghanis(ppl, not currency), love india and specially bollywood, even today they talk about old hindi movies.

Soviets failed. So everyone else will. That is your point. I dont agree. Soviets were fighting a proxy war with US. Today no one is fighting a proxy war with US. US is being supported by other powers. So, the surge has greater chances of success.

The road route is of course better than the naval one, but the road route right now is more dangerous(due to Pakistani taliban) then the naval one. Chahabar can play a wonderful role if Indian troops land in Afghanistan.

Again, you missed my point completely. Naxals are Indians but extremists. They will be dealt by state police and CRPF. Army does not get involved. Unlike Pakistan, in India army is not the solution to everything. I hope I am clear.

You tried to portray Afghanistan as an unconquerable landmass/ppl, I said in the history Indian kings have done successfully(ex: Ranjith Singh), so India has been successful in the past.

Official map of India shows that India is a neighbour of Afghanistan but Pakistan has occupied that landmass. Whether you disagree or agree with it is irrelevant because Official Indian map is not going to change. And the entire sub-continent is our backyard, you guys tried strategic depth, you failed. You created a mess, we are ready to clean it up if they give us control over it.

India would want a strong nationlistic Afghanistan to be established. For that we are building them civic amenities and also training their army, we are giving them huge aid. We can also 'protect' them if need be from neighbours like Pakistan and their 'strategic depth'.

..hmm...see, it was exhausting to say the whole thing again just to prove that I am not running away.:hitwall:

hahahahaha :rofl::rofl::rofl: Most funny brief i have ever read on Defence.pk hahhahaha :rofl:
 
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Could you give me a link to article or video?

Top Pak Ulema issue fatwa declaring suicide attacks 'un-Islamic'
Sun, Dec 6 12:00 PM

Lahore, Dec.6 (ANI): Top Pakistan cleric Allama Tahirul Qadri and chairman of the Central Ruet-e-Hilal Committee Chairman, Mufti Muneebur Rehman have issued a Fatwa declaring suicide attacks and bomb blasts 'un-Islamic'.

Issuing the Fatwa here, which would be released across the world in three languages, Qadri said : "Any armed struggle against an Islamic state fell in the domain of rebellion."

Rehman added that Islam prohibits killing of innocent people, and that such barbaric acts could not be justified.

Interior Minister Rehman Malik, while welcoming the fatwa against extremist activities, termed it a 'positive step'.

On Saturday, while condemning the suicide attack on a mosque in Rawalpindi in which 40 people were killed, including several army officials, Malik had urged Ulemas (spiritual leaders) to issue Fatwa against suicide attackers.

He said the attack was a reaction to the on going military operation in South Waziristan and Swat. (ANI)

Top Pak Ulema issue fatwa declaring suicide attacks 'un-Islamic' - Yahoo! India News
 
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hahahahaha :rofl::rofl::rofl: Most funny brief i have ever read on Defence.pk hahhahaha :rofl:

The laughter would have looked more genuine if you had used lesser smileys. you overdid it. Reminds me of an old song:

Tum itna jo muskura rahe ho,
Kya gum hai jisko chupa rahe ho...

:rofl:
 
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ha ha...ridicule at your own risk, mate. It hardly matters to me. Well, I am new to these forums and all this stuff, its kind of exhausting. Anyway, your post does not have many valid points. You have only replied for the sake of it.

Let me try to answer them briefly:

Just because you are a neighbour does not give you any special privilege especially after what you have done there when that area was left to you. Iran supports NA, we support it, Russia does. US/NATA support it right now, they have no other choice. China is caught in between. Pakistan is the theatre. Top leadership of Balochis are in quetta according to US and US will drone those places.

Pakistan wants US to get out of here, so that you can do what you did earlier. That option is not available to others, so other nations will not leave Afghanistan at your mercy.

Afghanis!I use the word in hindi context, you know Pakistan-pakistanis, Afghanistan-afghanis...etc, I do know that the currency of Afghanistan is also called Afghani, it was earlier afghani ruppee, you know it used to be compared to Indian ruppee earlier, later it was changed to dollar.

Afghanis(ppl, not currency), love india and specially bollywood, even today they talk about old hindi movies.

Soviets failed. So everyone else will. That is your point. I dont agree. Soviets were fighting a proxy war with US. Today no one is fighting a proxy war with US. US is being supported by other powers. So, the surge has greater chances of success.

The road route is of course better than the naval one, but the road route right now is more dangerous(due to Pakistani taliban) then the naval one. Chahabar can play a wonderful role if Indian troops land in Afghanistan.

Again, you missed my point completely. Naxals are Indians but extremists. They will be dealt by state police and CRPF. Army does not get involved. Unlike Pakistan, in India army is not the solution to everything. I hope I am clear.

You tried to portray Afghanistan as an unconquerable landmass/ppl, I said in the history Indian kings have done successfully(ex: Ranjith Singh), so India has been successful in the past.

Official map of India shows that India is a neighbour of Afghanistan but Pakistan has occupied that landmass. Whether you disagree or agree with it is irrelevant because Official Indian map is not going to change. And the entire sub-continent is our backyard, you guys tried strategic depth, you failed. You created a mess, we are ready to clean it up if they give us control over it.

India would want a strong nationlistic Afghanistan to be established. For that we are building them civic amenities and also training their army, we are giving them huge aid. We can also 'protect' them if need be from neighbours like Pakistan and their 'strategic depth'.

..hmm...see, it was exhausting to say the whole thing again just to prove that I am not running away.:hitwall:

Sweet Dreams baby.........................................
 
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Sweet Dreams baby.........................................

Same to you! Hopefully, when you get up from your slumber, you can come up with something better than lame one-liner.

Frankly, you guys cant even ridicule properly. I am disappointed with the IQ level. I mean I thought Pakistanis were quite intelligent, but you guys are hell bent on changing my opinion. What all I have said is actually common knowledge to anyone interested in these topics or atleast I though so, yet, post after post people come up with ridiculous replies and immature one-liners seemingly to ridicule me, but they have to understand that they are simply embarrassing themselves. I feel embarrassed by your immature retorts.

BTW, now I am waiting for the next Pakistani guy, who would quote my entire post to give one liner like 'grow up', 'in your dreams'...etc...etc.

Anyway, good luck to you guys. I am off, bye.
 
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Same to you! Hopefully, when you get up from your slumber, you can come up with something better than lame one-liner.

Frankly, you guys cant even ridicule properly. I am disappointed with the IQ level. I mean I thought Pakistanis were quite intelligent, but you guys are hell bent on changing my opinion. What all I have said is actually common knowledge to anyone interested in these topics or atleast I though so, yet, post after post people come up with ridiculous replies and immature one-liners seemingly to ridicule me, but they have to understand that they are simply embarrassing themselves. I feel embarrassed by your immature retorts.

BTW, now I am waiting for the next Pakistani guy, who would quote my entire post to give one liner like 'grow up', 'in your dreams'...etc...etc.

Anyway, good luck to you guys. I am off, bye.

The maturity of your arguments put forward clearly show your level of knowledge. Things like waiting for an attack on your consulate so that the Indian army can be deployed in Afghanistan, labeling the mosque attack as sectarian, the Afghans having a soft corner for the indians. No one wants to bother wasting more time then a one liner in response to your absurd theories.

"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his own way"
:wave:
 
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This thread is full of **** comments by indian and pakistani wankers. Everyone here only talks as poor innocent people get killed. If one of these Taliban dudes confront, you would start to pee in your pants.
 
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Are you people really that naive or is it the same pretentious attitude that you learn from your corrupt leaders ?

When at the same time these animals led by baitullah mehsood and now hakim-ullah mehsood have brought havoc upon the Pakistani nation, bombing mosques killing innocent children and getting sophisticated weapons from unknown sources are destabilizing the country to the fullest of their capabilities, claim about defending the country and you take them seriously ? they want to fight alongside the same men who they kill everyday ? this is just absurd and anyone taking them seriously is either aware of their motives or completely ignorant.

Why aren't they attacking the American supply lines and their installations in Pakistan so frequently ? If it was really the drone attacks they were worried about, everyone knows these drones fly from Shamsi Air base near Quetta not the mosque that was attacked.

They claim to attack civilians because we support the govt who is supporting the NATO forces in Afghanistan, following the same ideology the Afghan Govt completely supports the NATO forces in Afghanistan, people of Afghanistan have voted for Karzai so why aren't the mosques attacked there? why aren't these mosques built by "munafkeen", why are the civilians of Afghanistan not under attack? What is the reason for the Talibans in Afghanistan to have disowned them time and again ? If the Afghan Talibans are not supporting them then the only other forces left to have the capability is either the NATO or the Indians present alongside the border.


All these questions are very conveniently ignored.

You asked for a credible source as you doubted the information from zee or cnn etc .

I gave you a Pakistani Source in the Article If Indians attack Taliban to fight alongside Army: Mahsud

It is nearly an year since the Article was published.

Up to now no Pakistani Official – to my knowledge - i.e. Army, ISI, Government, other leaders Political or Religious etc. have denied the statement of Baitullah Mahsud.

There is no point in asking me any questions.

You should ask Mr. Mushtaq Yusufzai or the News International Goup or other Pakistani Leaders of all Sections as the news has emanated from the Pakistani Media or even Baitullah Mahsud.

Sorry mate!
 
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The maturity of your arguments put forward clearly show your level of knowledge. Things like waiting for an attack on your consulate so that the Indian army can be deployed in Afghanistan, labeling the mosque attack as sectarian, the Afghans having a soft corner for the indians. No one wants to bother wasting more time then a one liner in response to your absurd theories.

"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his own way"
:wave:

Well done brother that's the way to go :)
 
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