Blast at Shalimar Plaza, Rawalpindi

[waraich66]

You are still confused over who did this?

How about we start from the ones that openly bragged about doing this?

Lal Masjid Clerics - Suicide bombings throughout Pakistan if their demands are not implemented.

Baitullah Mehsud etc. - thousands of suicide bombers ready to attack all over Pakistan

Swat Taliban (Muslim Khan) - Kill the families and children of the soldiers wherever you find them.

Do you and some others have a mental block that prevents you from understanding what the above means?

Right, but who is providing them arms ? can you enlighten us

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

i dont know about each case, but if the only evidence you have is that they admitted to doing it then it does not follow that they actually did it, i mean is that really a sufficient standard of proof?

if it was then the fbi would accuse obl for 9/11 based on a video tape, yet they dont.

i mean ofcourse they could do it, and these people are suspects, but sorry i need a higher standard of proof to convince me and too many of these incidents go by and we dont really learn anything do we?

why is that? because we dont ask enough questions and gather enough evidence.


are perceptions really reality?

dont get the two confused.

Why not? They consistently claim the intent to commit terrorism and they consistently claim the acts of terrorism after they have occurred.

The GoP itself has argued that in cases where they have captured handlers and suicide bombers before they detonated, those captured have admitted their links to the Taliban or other extremist Islamist organizations.

There is a heck of a lot more evidence pointing to the guilt of the TTP and other Islamic extremists than there is towards anything else. So lets stick with where the evidence points for now shall we?

The Pakistani case against the TTP/AQ etc. is far greater than a 'video tape', as I pointed out - and in any case, who cares what the FBI thinks of OBL. This is about these takfiris in Pakistan.

So no, blaming the TTP and other extremist groups is not about 'perceptions' it is based in the evidence available at this time which is pretty damning, except for terrorist sympathizers.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Right, but who is providing them arms ? can you enlighten us

When we destroy the organization and capture the leaders maybe we will find out - in the mean time we have to neutralize the rats who use those arms.

 

[haawk]

hope you guys come out sucessfully from this mess the terrorists are bringing upon your nation.......may death smile upon the terrorists ......may the innocent souls rest in peace

 

[S-2]

"taliban was simply brought and created by ISI and some people think Saudis and Americans also had a hand in their creation in Afghanistan in 1990s..."

You are close but EVER so wrong...

...and that is all the difference in the world.

The afghan taliban are a completely indigenous and SPONTANEOUS movement that arose out of Urozgan Province and then Kandahar city at the hands of Omar and others.

They had origins, of sorts, with the afghan mujahideen but had returned to their homes following the end of the Afghan-Soviet war. It was during the breakdown of general civil order during the Afghan civil war that the taliban movement began to emerge and gain notice.

At the time, 1994, the ISI was deeply invested in promoting Gulbuddin Hekmatyar as their protege in opposition to the Rabbani government then in Afghanistan. As the taliban movement gained momentum, however, the ISI switched its support to ride the winning horse.

To this day the Hekmatyar clique do not adhere to the taliban objectives and Omar/Hekmatyar are not personally close. They are rivals as is Haqqani to a lesser degree.

Thanks.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Right, but who is providing them arms ? can you enlighten us

BTW - who is providing the 'glorious Afghan Taliban' their weapons?

 

[r3alist]

Why not? They consistently claim the intent to commit terrorism and they consistently claim the acts of terrorism after they have occurred.

The GoP itself has argued that in cases where they have captured handlers and suicide bombers before they detonated, those captured have admitted their links to the Taliban or other extremist Islamist organizations.

There is a heck of a lot more evidence pointing to the guilt of the TTP and other Islamic extremists than there is towards anything else. So lets stick with where the evidence points for now shall we?

The Pakistani case against the TTP/AQ etc. is far greater than a 'video tape', as I pointed out - and in any case, who cares what the FBI thinks of OBL. This is about these takfiris in Pakistan.

So no, blaming the TTP and other extremist groups is not about 'perceptions' it is based in the evidence available at this time which is pretty damning, except for terrorist sympathizers.

why not.....why not, because its NOT EVIDENCE


if some poor illiterate street dweller cum jihadi cum talibani cum suicide bomber is caught you dont think its likely he will say whatever he needs to just to get an easy time?



again, perceptions and speculations are one thing, but to allow it to permeate realities is shockingly bad logic.


the issue is we dont have enough to evidence and information, we are all feeling our way round a dark room, some say mossad/raw/cia, some say ttp.taliban/al qaeda - neither is certain




if i was to suggest one thing its to ask questions, probe deeper.


i am dubious about the ttp, organisations like them who have come from nowhere need something to prop them up.

the ttp types do not wear a badge or a uniform, they do not carry id, theres alot shades of grey inbetween your black.white world

i would love to believe that it was as simple as the culprits being the ttp.

someone goes into an area, blows themselves up and we blame the ttp - is it really that simple for you?


remember, if some evidence comes to light then i am happy to be humbled, but until that moment comes then my conscience refuses to let me think to poorly.

 

[S-2]

"...who cares what the FBI thinks of OBL."

Americans care a bit. Our interest in OBL and 9/11 would fall more to detention as a "person of interest". We'd like to chat.

Sadly, though, those chats would take secondary precedence to the fact that adequate evidence exists to seek his arrest for previous crimes-

He faces three charges now- Murder of U.S. Nationals Outside the United States, Conspiracy to Murder U.S. Nationals Outside the United States, and Attack On A Federal Facility Resulting In Death-

FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugative List (OBL)-2009

 

[Solomon2]

It sounds like something the Indians would do, if they had a mind for terror attacks. The thing is, of course, that the GoP is currently at war with the TTP et al, so it's much more logical to assume that the attack was staged to blame India and thus draw PA forces away from Wazirstan, just as the Mumbai attack had the effect of halting anti-terror operations last year.

Imagine yourself Indian terror commander (if there is such a person). Would you bother setting bombs in Rawalpindi right now? After all, the soldiers and officers you'd want to kill are the most capable ones - the ones currently out in the field. You would be more likely to want to wait until the current war was over and the good soldiers and officers had returned to their offices and barracks - then you would try to slaughter them.

 

[The Patriot]

Why do all the sane pakistani's are settled outside the country?

May god gives peace to departed souls.

there are many pakistanis who can think clearly and i believe most of Pakistan are sane. but they may have not voice. when Pakistan and the whole world was supporting Aghan war thought mujahideen there were many voices in Pakistan who opposed that only because of the indoctrination. i was kid then, and i remember some of cousin were cursing this. they used to tell the people that its harmful for pakistan to indoctrinate people of the area for the war in afghanistan. they will create problem for pakistan later but they were termed Communist agents. and they were not from ANP, the political party which was opposing the so called jihad.
when there was a support for taliban in afghanistan i saw its influence in my own area Mardan. at that time the whole pakistan was singing songs of taliban on tvs and everywhere but i could smell it was wrong. and so were many people thinking on the same line.
and even now there are somePpakistanis who distinguish between bad and good taliban but i believe most of us know who our enemies are.

 

[r3alist]

"...who cares what the FBI thinks of OBL."

Americans care a bit. Our interest in OBL and 9/11 would fall more to detention as a "person of interest". We'd like to chat.

Sadly, though, those chats would take secondary precedence to the fact that adequate evidence exists to seek his arrest for previous crimes-

He faces three charges now- Murder of U.S. Nationals Outside the United States, Conspiracy to Murder U.S. Nationals Outside the United States, and Attack On A Federal Facility Resulting In Death-

FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugative List (OBL)-2009

and not one mention of 9/11 is there?

yet you ask most people in the us and the world who did 9/11 and they will tell you OBL.


this is the difference between perception and reality, and this is what some on here fail to understand.

why go around accusing without solid proof, the FBI dont

however, i can listen to some good deduction...but make sure its good

 

[Khajur]

I personally believe that India is not involved in it and other extremists related activities in Pakistan. here are the reasons:

1. the surge in extremist ideology in Pakistan will definitely have repurcussions for india as it hosts some 160 million muslims. they know it will not stop in pakistan.

2. Indian counselates in Afghanistan doesnt mean to aid Taliban. they are there to create its influence. they are helping Afghan governemnt. if they were abetting Taliban then the US, NATO and Afghan government would definitely do something. they are helping Afghan government. and its in their best interests to see Taliban not come to power. otherwise they will lose all their clout.

3. India and other countries do not defrentiate between good or bad taliban the way we do. to them every extremist is a threat. so there is way india would help pakistani taliban and not afghan.

4. it is not in the interest of India to see pakistan in the hands of extremists or in civil war.

5. for us india is number one enemy but india has other things on its minds. It has big adversary like China. it is an emerging economic power. it wants to play positive international role so that can get UN permanent membership. its focussed on economy. they have other priorities and their abetting Taliban collide with that.

6. India is not the mollycoddle child of US. if india was doing something fishy, US will definitely raise it. pl dont counter of here with RAW, CIA and Mossad nexus theory of conspirators here.

7. India may abet baluchistan separatists to settle scores with Pakistan or put pressure on it to stop supporting kashmiris but not Taliban.

there are other factors too but i dont wanna go into detail. my point here is that blaming all this stuff on india will not do any good for us. As Tsun Zu said, we should know our enemy. and our enemy is our brothers who we brainwashed once and now they are biting us. lets not me misdirected by so called patriots who want to get approval from public by demonizing india, israel or america. they are doing no good by misleading the nation.

To be very frank...dont ever think that india is behind any Jihadi groups be it Taliban or some other group.

Only people in pakistan that india may look forward to establish connection for covert or overt activities are few secessionist movements e,g Boulchi nationalists , and liberal & secular intelligencia of pakistan or political parties like MQM.
Interestingly all these groups are also in fore front of opposing Taliban.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Why do all the sane pakistani's are settled outside the country?

Don't flame and pour out your prejudice here. Last warning.

 

[Khajur]

Right, but who is providing them arms ? can you enlighten us

TTP for long time ruled some large chunk parts of ur frontier regions for last few years before the pak army operations to evicts them.

I'm sure they managed to collect enough money from the traders ,business men and rich people in the form of "protection money...not to mention the donations received from the local sympathizers in pakistan and charities from outside.

If u've enough money ,buying modern sophisticated firearms or explosives isnt a difficult task in todays time no matter who u are fighting .

How Afgan Taliban is running its operations aganist US army??

And beside that i've a strong feeling that Afghan Taliban in helping TTP atleast in terms of logistics and technical expertise,as both belong to same ethinic groups and share eaxctly same ideology.

 

[SMC]

The days of TTP are numbered. They are making their last stand by killing these innocent people. Soon these savages will be in hell thanks to the army and PAF.