Betrayed, Arabized

[Safriz]

I encourage you to please do more research - especially with regard to how much blood was shed to make Abdul Wahab the "Mujjadid" some claimed him to be -- and if that is "good", I want no part of it. When you say individuals should be blamed not the ideology, let me ask you if you will grant the same exceptions to communists and communism??

I know that you cannot grant such an exception - so why do you seek it for those for whom you have a soft spot?

not saying this only to prove my point..but yes i am not against socialism...and yes at times bloidshed is inevitable..
sti being done by the most "civilized" nations of the world for reasons they consider as right and justified....if Abdul wahhab done it..may be it was needed....

 

[Vinod2070]

Who is responsible for the over whelming numbers of Muslims in Hindustan- explain your logic- i am listening?- Most probably you will say afghanis?- then as your self who brought islam there- now post-

Why don't you tell me?

I say it is not Arabs as long as you don't think Arab=Islam.

---------- Post added at 11:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 AM ----------

Ok, made the necessary changes:

This is not the Islam of the Saudis (Salafi) or of India (Deobandi), but of the Sufis

Happy now? Geez!

Its not about me but your confused state of mind and lack of facts.

 

[Nav]

Another real muslim who traded being Pakistani for some sort of imagined arbi - and he says it's his "Asal" - not Pakistani but arbizada? AQnd in true Arbi form, reading is non Muslims

He is trying to be muslim i guess.. That's why he quoted Quranic Verse..don't forget the purpose of creation of our beloved Islamic Republic. Have you forgot Two Nation Theory. ??

 

[muse]

not saying this only to prove my point..but yes i am not against socialism...and yes at times bloidshed is inevitable..
sti being done by the most "civilized" nations of the world for reasons they consider as right and justified....if Abdul wahhab done it..may be it was needed....

So, you would say blame communists not communism?? as if the two were not related? I can see you are a man of the world, who does not retreat from the idea that eggs must be broken to make Omelets - And so you will accept if the same fate befalls the Wahabi as does eggs, after all, Omeltes -- ends justify means, you say and may you experience it to grasp it's full meaning.

 

[Nav]

No only you, whose ancestors were Hindu and Sikh Indians, are the real Muslims - So spare me, your Holy Quran that you recite when you do murder -

whats in your Mind ? Why you are opposing Quran and Islam, ?

 

[Safriz]

One of the things that pains me is watching silently people making these new (isms) in Islam from out side of the Muslims world and then inject it into many people's heads. I said it once and I will say it again "Muhammad (PBUH) brought only one message, one Qur'an and one religion. He did not bring these many sects or schools of thought. Our duty as Muslims is to believe that God's message is perfect and should not be tampered with. Do we have higher knowledge than God making our own rules in religion to worship him? Is God's message not perfect enough?"

about "ism" you misunderstood me.
i have already said these were socio political movements rightly done according to circumstances of that era.
same as surgery.for a particular disesase..which is justified and benifits oy when the disease is there...is nullified after the disease is gone....
later if some third party complains that the surgeon was "so cruel that he cut the poir man..caused bleefing ad his this and that"......but if the surgeon hadnt performed tge operation the person had died.
get it? no?

 

[JonAsad]

Why don't you tell me?

I say it is not Arabs as long as you don't think Arab=Islam.

---------- Post added at 11:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 AM ----------



Its not about me but your confused state of mind and lack of facts.

Tell me about Arab=Islam-
you talking about now or then?

 

[Mosamania]

"

Great post - When will ever read an arbi saying that this applies to Wahabism? When will we read an arbi saying that it pains him to see what this ideology of wahabism has done to the lives of so many innocent people in so many countries?

My guess, we will not read any arbi let alone Maso make this statement - because his conscience belongs to the state, if the state says a wrong is a right, Maso will fall in line ---- Go ahead, make me liar, I will happily accept that.

Saudi Arabia is my country.....but this is where Saudi Arabia stops for me. I do not believe in borders, races, tongues and cultures. All of these stuff are meaningless they will all disappear one day no matter how hard we try to keep them. No country will remain there forever and no culture will either. All of these stuff has an expiration date but there is one thing that will remain. One thing that will remain forever. That is Allah. What Allah says and what he tells us to do those are the real things of this world. This entire world will one day vanish but Allah wont...Think about this muse.

I for one told you before I do not believe in such a thing as Wahabism or Salfism. However who you label as Wahabis and Salafis only call for Islam to be practiced the way God told us to practice. If that is wrong then explain to me why do you say it is such?

---------- Post added at 09:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 AM ----------

about "ism" you misunderstood me.
i have already said these were socio political movements rightly done according to circumstances of that era.
same as surgery.for a particular disesase..which is justified and benifits oy when the disease is there...is nullified after the disease is gone....
later if some third party complains that the surgeon was "so cruel that he cut the poir man..caused bleefing ad his this and that"......but if the surgeon hadnt performed tge operation the person had died.
get it? no?

I get what you meant. But at the time neither were called Wahhabis or Balavis this only came recently however...

 

[Safriz]

So, you would say blame communists not communism?? as if the two were not related? I can see you are a man of the world, who does not retreat from the idea that eggs must be broken to make Omelets - And so you will accept if the same fate befalls the Wahabi as does eggs, after all, Omeltes -- ends justify means, you say and may you experience it to grasp it's full meaning.

put it this way..if a military dictator comes and unites pakistan by "deleting" all.miscreants..i will support him and wont raise voice for "demoracy" as thats what pakistan needs at this time.

 

[53fd]

Saudi Arabia is my country.....but this is where Saudi Arabia stops for me. I do not believe in borders, races, tongues and cultures. All of these stuff are meaningless they will all disappear one day no matter how hard we try to keep them. No country will remain there forever and no culture will either. All of these stuff has an expiration date but there is one thing that will remain. One thing that will remain forever. That is Allah. What Allah says and what he tells us to do those are the real things of this world. This entire world will one day vanish but Allah wont...Think about this muse.

I for one told you before I do not believe in such a thing as Wahabism or Salfism. However who you label as Wahabis and Salafis only call for Islam to be practiced the way God told us to practice. If that is wrong then explain to me why do you say it is such?

Brother, I agree with your post for the most part, but the part in bold. This is how Takfiri thoughts arise.

 

[Vinod2070]

Tell me about Arab=Islam-
you talking about now or then?

Does it change with time?

I am talking of now and then.

 

[Nav]

Dragon

God if he is God, is the God of all - Allah says He is Lord of all Universes - in other words, he is not an Arab God, and He is available to all in whatever language they speak, so long as they speak the language of love, which is FAITH

are you trying to say we shall translate quran in full urdu transcript? And read it with out arabic?

 

[muse]

Saudi Arabia is my country.....but this is where Saudi Arabia stops for me. I do not believe in borders, races, tongues and cultures. All of these stuff are meaningless they will all disappear one day no matter how hard we try to keep them. No country will remain there forever and no culture will either. All of these stuff has an expiration date but there is one thing that will remain. One thing that will remain forever. That is Allah. What Allah says and what he tells us to do those are the real things of this world. This entire world will one day vanish but Allah wont...Think about this muse.

I for one told you before I do not believe in such a thing as Wahabism or Salfism. However who you label as Wahabis and Salafis only call for Islam to be practiced the way God told us to practice. If that is wrong then explain to me why do you say it is such?

Unfortunate that you could not muster the courage, but then you live in a religious tyranny -- and since to yiu there is no such thing as wahabism and Salafism, how can you be expected to say that the things extremists are doing using this ideology is something you condemn -- damn shabby, Maso - you could have shown everybody here that I have been wrong about you , about arbis - but like I said your conscience belongs to the state, you cannot have your own conscience, if the state says a wrong is a right, you will agree.

It's not too late Maso, take the challenge, you said you wanted to be a brother and yet you negate what we tell you is causing death, mayhem and misery for Pakistan, for Afghanistan, for Tajikistan for Uzbekistan, for Chechen, for our dear brother, China, for the world - Please trust what I am saying to you about this, if you trust nothing else, trust this.

 

[JonAsad]

about "ism" you misunderstood me.
i have already said these were socio political movements rightly done according to circumstances of that era.
same as surgery.for a particular disesase..which is justified and benifits oy when the disease is there...is nullified after the disease is gone....
later if some third party complains that the surgeon was "so cruel that he cut the poir man..caused bleefing ad his this and that"......but if the surgeon hadnt performed tge operation the person had died.
get it? no?

well as i understand it- You will not have to be surgically treated again even after the disease is cured or tumor is removed that implies for that person only- Some day there could be another person who needs the same surgery for some thing else-
A present day example would be of Turkey- where Atta Turk forcibly changed the whole Islamic mindset of people- because for him it was the need of the hour-

I equate the people having problems with wahabism in the same scale as i see some of us have problems with other sects of Islam- sunni- shia- ahmedi and vice versa- Like those people i find them to be intolerable- violent and full of sh!t to be honest- while claiming themselves to be librals and belonging to a universal adaptable society-

 

[Vinod2070]

My understanding is that the Arabic that was used in Quran is not what is spoken now in most of the Arabic world. So even most native Arabs can't understand all of the Quran directly, leave alone the non-Arabs.

Is that not right?