Best way to implement Sharia in Pakistan ???

[M. Sarmad]

First of all I never advocated sharia for Pakistan. Second I never brought up hadith I just mentioned that rampage was getting the wrong message from the hadith he brought up and lastly I know enough about the Quran to know that what you are quoting is about a specific thing and not all encompassing like you are wishfully trying to make it out to be. The rest that you have posted is irrelevant. However while I do agree Pakistan needs to keep religion out of government I did bring up that the current constitution was deemed in line with sharia when it was originally written and instead laws need to be implemented properly or ammended accordingly.

The Holy Quran itself testifies to its "all encompassing" knowledge and guidance in the following verse:

"And We have sent down to you the Book as clarification for all things and as guidance and mercy and good tidings for the Muslims." [16:89]

The Shariah proponents have not been able to bring their proof from Holy Quran (that there is compulsion in religion) ... Whereas there are a lot of Quranic verses (some of which have been quoted in previous posts) which tell us clearly that there is no compulsion in religion and no one (including the prophet) has any right to force someone in religious matters . Quran does not order any worldly punishment for religious "offenses" (only the acts that are harmful to the community or the state are punishable by a state , as per Quran) and tells us that the people who do not follow religion are accountable to Allah only and it is for him (alone) to decide their fate , on the day of judgement .

The Shariah proponents have to rely on "other" sources to justify their claims .. But if one reads Quran , it becomes absolutely clear that deriving laws from "sources" other than Quran is strictly forbidden by Allah .. And when these sources (Hadith/history etc.) are scrutinized , One finds out that they are nothing but "conjecture" ,All Such "books were compiled on the orders of Kings , centuries after the revelation of Quran , to make lawful what had been made unlawful by the almighty ..

And Iqbal (Mufakkir e Pakistan) held similar views . We are talking about "implementing Shariah in Pakistan" .. So the views of "thinker of Pakistan" are not "irrelevant" . Quran is the only text whose authority is undisputed among all sects of Muslims . So any "Shariah" derived from sources other than Quran can only be a Sunni Shariah , Deoband Shariah , Wahhabi Shariah , Shiite Shariah etc. etc. but not an "Islamic Shariah" .. The Shariah derived from Quran is compatible with the modern world ... All other "Shariahs" are outdated , medieval codes of law which can not be implemented in the 21st century ..

 

[Hyperion]

Red / note: He didn't say any such thing.
Green / note: Always backup with proof. Stop parroting "so called" mullahs.
Blue / note: What is proven? A historical record of what happened also became hadith...... provide exact details.
Pink / note: Who punished whom? What are you on son.

Now stop peddling your version of whatever it is (it's not Islam for sure), down others throats. Provide proofs, engage in academic debate.

I am giving you a negative rating for the notes mentioned above.

P.S. When you people run out of logic/answers, first thing you do is label anyone with more than one neuron an apostate and wajib-ul-katl. Why not get angry at your children today for a change?

Who are you to delimit Allah about what He can decide and what He cannot. Allah is free of what you attribute to Him. Please dont add to the Qur'an Kareem.

Allah punishes criminals in this dunya. Allah has promised to balance good and bad deeds in Akhira.

RasoolAllah salat wa salam alaih created the Muslim Ummat in Madeena Munawwarah. And he established God's Law there. The Khulafa Rashidoon continued in his footsteps. This is proven from Hadith Shareef.

He punished criminals according to Islamic Jurisprudence [ God's Law as stated in the Qur'an Majeed ]. This is proven according to Hadith Shareef.
@AgNoStiC MuSliM

 

[Multani]

Red / note: He didn't say any such thing.
Green / note: Always backup with proof. Stop parroting "so called" mullahs.
Blue / note: What is proven? A historical record of what happened also became hadith...... provide exact details.
Pink / note: Who punished whom? What are you on son.

Now stop peddling your version of whatever it is (it's not Islam for sure), down others throats. Provide proofs, engage in academic debate.

I am giving you a negative rating for the notes mentioned above.

P.S. When you people run out of logic/answers, first thing you do is label anyone with more than one neuron an apostate and wajib-ul-katl. Why not get angry at your children today for a change?

You have no right to give me a negative rating [ and you are abusive in language and attacks and condone genocide in Pakistan all over the forum, while none of your discussions are academic anywhere ] because whatever you are implying is false. Neither did i call anyone an apostate, nor wajib ul qatl. These are serious accusations and i fear Allah.

Green Note: Proofs are Qur'anic verses. I am not going to post them here.

Black Note: He clearly added to the meaning of the Qur'anic verse, and he has been doing it throughout this thread. I suspect he is plagiarizing as well.

Blue Note: It is proven, and i am not going to post that here because its a separate discussion.

Pink note: punished criminals in Madeeena Munawwarah

 

[Hyperion]

In red.

Green Note: Proofs are Qur'anic verses. I am not going to post them here. - Why not?

Black Note: He clearly added to the meaning of the Qur'anic verse, and he has been doing it throughout this thread. I suspect he is plagiarizing as well. - If he plagiarizing, prove it, or let it be.

Blue Note: It is proven, and i am not going to post that here because its a separate discussion. - All separate discussions are all inclusive. It's Islam.

Pink note: punished criminals in Madeeena Munawwarah - He did many other things as well, as per Azlan, why neglect the other side.....

 

[Multani]

The Holy Quran itself testifies to its "all encompassing" knowledge and guidance in the following verse:

"And We have sent down to you the Book as clarification for all things and as guidance and mercy and good tidings for the Muslims." [16:89]

The Shariah proponents have not been able to bring their proof from Holy Quran (that there is compulsion in religion) ... Whereas there are a lot of Quranic verses (some of which have been quoted in previous posts) which tell us clearly that there is no compulsion in religion and no one (including the prophet) has any right to force someone in religious matters . Quran does not order any worldly punishment for religious "offenses" (only the acts that are harmful to the community or the state are punishable by a state , as per Quran) and tells us that the people who do not follow religion are accountable to Allah only and it is for him (alone) to decide their fate , on the day of judgement .

This is a gross mis-representation of Islamic teachings by hadith deniers. It is a principle in Shariat that there is no compulsion in religion. The hadith deniers have attributed falsehood against the generality of the Muslims of Pakistan. The verse that you posted earlier is for non-Muslims. RasoolAllah salat wa salam alaih established hudood punishments in Madeena Munawwarah as proven by Hadeeth Shareef.

The Hudood punishments are derived directly from the Qur'an Kareem and the Hadeeth Shareef.. It is a fiqhi matter since Imam Ja'far as Sadiq RA school and Imam Malik RA in Madeena Munawwarah.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Thanks for your wish. Admiral sb, I said it 'the most difficult' because we see each day at Makkah brought a new challenge for Hadhrat S.A.A.W. Wasn't the most kind, the most just and the most righteous person (S.A.A.W ) was tortured, humiliated and troubled everyday on the streets of Makkah for calling people unto Allah SWT? Did he or his companions raise their hands in self defense? NO. They were doing it only for the WILL of Allah SWT and good of their brothers. Unless we do it with same intentions while prepared for similar difficulties, we can't bring about any change in our people's mind to accept Shariah in their lives. I mentioned in my post people cutting throats or people coming all the way from Canada can't do it.

Well said. But those times are long gone.

Today if Pakistanis speak truth, be trustworthy, and be kind, tolerant, and nice, no one will torture them except the Mulahs and Islamists.

So the situation has kind of reversed from the way you put it in your original post.

 

[Multani]

The Shariah proponents have to rely on "other" sources to justify their claims .. But if one reads Quran , it becomes absolutely clear that deriving laws from "sources" other than Quran is strictly forbidden by Allah .. And when these sources (Hadith/history etc.) are scrutinized , One finds out that they are nothing but "conjecture" ,All Such "books were compiled on the orders of Kings , centuries after the revelation of Quran , to make lawful what had been made unlawful by the almighty ..

How about you prove all your wild claims? "conjecture" , ""books were compiled on the orders of Kings , centuries after the revelation of Quran , to make lawful what had been made unlawful by the almighty", "laws from "sources" other than Quran is strictly forbidden by Allah"

99.9% of ALL Muslims, from all sects, throughout history have derived laws from the Qur'an Kareem AND Hadeeth Shareef.


.

 

[Multani]

In red.

Volume 8, Book 81, Number 768:
Narrated Abu Salama:

Abu Huraira said, "A man who drank wine was brought to the Prophet. The Prophet said, 'Beat him!" Abu Huraira added, "So some of us beat him with our hands, and some with their shoes, and some with their garments (by twisting it) like a lash, and then when we finished, someone said to him, 'May Allah disgrace you!' On that the Prophet said, 'Do not say so, for you are helping Satan to overpower him.' "

In red.

Allah says in the Qur'an, and this is for @Azlan Haider , who made a false claim in the post above. He claimed that Allah does not punish in this dunya.

I will punish those disbelievers with the severest torment both in this world and the world to come.) [Sûrat-u Âl-i ‘Imrân, 56]

 

[Multani]

[Aa`raf 7:130] And indeed We seized the people of Firaun with a famine of several years
and with reduction of fruits, so that they may follow advice.

 

[474474]

The ummah had a state at the start and inshallah will have one at the end. All the muslim lands will be reunited, if you don't want in you know where the door is.

My ancestors inhabited this land for millennia, I'm afraid you will be the one who needs to be shown the door. My country, my freedoms.

@Indischer do you know that @EyanKhan is only 16 ?

I foresee a bright future for this bright lad - He is wise beyond his years....I mean it Khanaa !

Hey hey I was here and defending freedomz since I was 13 :[

 

[p4kistan]

The civilised worlds believes people of any faith should be allowed to spread their faith. Muslim or not. Why so much double standards? Then don't cry like little babies when the West takes any action against Muslims.

I don't care what your so called "civilised world" believes. It also believes in the murder, discrimination, occupation of muslims as well as others not in the "elite developed world".

Where have i shown double standards or expected them. The likes of you just concoct BS to satisfy your ego.

Who is crying to the west? What action is the west taking against muslims?

My ancestors inhabited this land for millennia, I'm afraid you will be the one who needs to be shown the door. My country, my freedoms.


Hey hey I was here and defending freedomz since I was 13 :[

So have mine, time will only tell who is shown the door. You can live in your country & enjoy your freedoms under islam.

 

[R2D2]

Khilafah can come by many means. What people should do is create awareness about it and remove doubts from the minds of the people. In Pakistan Dr. Israr Ahmed's Tanzeem i Islami and Hizb ut Tahrir are creating awareness about them. Both of them don't take part in election process. (1) It is my considered opinion over the years that there should be a political party in Pakistan which takes part in elections and works to bring islamic legislation about Shariah and change the nature of the STATE from within.(2) In the meantime, people can also solve their problems through Alternate Dispute Resolution (ADR) courts (see wikipedia) to solve their problems voluntarily through Shariah. There is legal space for ADR in Pakistani law.

 

[TheNoob]

The enemy wont be the end of us....
Our own mullahs will. :|

 

[M. Sarmad]

This is a gross mis-representation of Islamic teachings by hadith deniers. It is a principle in Shariat that there is no compulsion in religion. The hadith deniers have attributed falsehood against the generality of the Muslims of Pakistan. The verse that you posted earlier is for non-Muslims. RasoolAllah salat wa salam alaih established hudood punishments in Madeena Munawwarah as proven by Hadeeth Shareef.

You are a shameless liar ... or may be you have serious comprehension issues .... read my post carefully ...
Best way to implement Sharia in Pakistan ??? | Page 22

Allah says in the Qur'an, and this is for @Azlan Haider , who made a false claim in the post above. He claimed that Allah does not punish in this dunya.

Again lying !! show me where did I say that .... ? the out of context verse that you quoted (hypocrisy much ? did u miss the context ?) actually proves what i have been saying all along !!
ITS FOR ALLAH ALONE TO PUNISH SOMEONE FOR RELIGIOUS OFFENSES and no one including the prophet has any right to force some one in religious matters .. anyways thanks for proving my point ...

Black Note: He clearly added to the meaning of the Qur'anic verse, and he has been doing it throughout this thread. I suspect he is plagiarizing as well.

I am not a brain dead Mudrassah bred moron like you ... prove your allegations , or else ... STFU

 

[Multani]

You are a shameless liar ... or may be you have serious comprehension issues .... read my post carefully ...
Best way to implement Sharia in Pakistan ??? | Page 22





Again lying !! show me where did I say that .... ? the out of context verse that you quoted (hypocrisy much ? did u miss the context ?) actually proves what i have been saying all along !!
ITS FOR ALLAH ALONE TO PUNISH SOMEONE FOR RELIGIOUS OFFENSES and no one including the prophet has any right to force some one in religious matters .. anyways thanks for proving my point ...




I am not a brain dead Mudrassah bred moron like you ... prove your allegations , or else ... STFU

Your point wasnt proved by that Aya Shareefah in anyway. Allah is FREE from what you Attribute to Him. I do not want to discuss Theology. Allah sent the Prophet Salat wa salam alaih on earth, and he implemented the Law Allah has given mankind in his eternal speech the Qur'an Kareem. This implementation of law INCLUDES hudood punishments, which RasoolAllah salat wa salam alaih established in Madeena Munawwarah.[proven by Hadith Shareef and historic accounts including works by his biographers ]

Please use good language and not attack personally and use abusive words. Control yourself.

You are a shameless liar ... or may be you have serious comprehension issues .... read my post carefully ...
Best way to implement Sharia in Pakistan ??? | Page 22





Again lying !! show me where did I say that .... ? the out of context verse that you quoted (hypocrisy much ? did u miss the context ?) actually proves what i have been saying all along !!
ITS FOR ALLAH ALONE TO PUNISH SOMEONE FOR RELIGIOUS OFFENSES and no one including the prophet has any right to force some one in religious matters .. anyways thanks for proving my point ...




I am not a brain dead Mudrassah bred moron like you ... prove your allegations , or else ... STFU

you have also made many wild claims above [ pure mud slinging on the beliefs of the vast majority of Muslims in Pakistan ]. you did not provide any proof for those, but somehow got a positive rating for it