Believe It Or Not! Madhya Pradesh Is All Set To Have Astrologists Treat Patients In OPD

[Jacob Martin]

The problem with Astrology nowadays is dime a dozen hobby/fake Astrologers at every corner of the road. So, this initiative by MP government wherein they are promoting Astrologers who have really studied Astrology is a welcome one.

Which brings us back to the point - what does really studying astrology mean? It is a cultural artifact at best. It can be promoted as such but not as anything else.

Chinese also have an extensive tradition of birthstones and other such stuff. It would be Draconian to outlaw them, but distinguishing between "genuine" and "spurious" becomes difficult when you are talking about a discipline that is dubious in itself.

 

[Fireurimagination]

Astrology is fake science.Motion of planets in the solar system do not affect our life.you know that right?.

Firstly in Astrology motion of Planets in solar system do not affect our lives, by studying the positioning various Dashas and Doshas are calculated. Vedic Astrology 101 is our Karma determines fruits which are gonna borne and the same can be interpreted through the language of the Planets.

Which brings us back to the point - what does really studying astrology mean? It is a cultural artifact at best. It can be promoted as such but not as anything else.

Chinese also have an extensive tradition of birthstones and other such stuff. It would be Draconian to outlaw them, but distinguishing between "genuine" and "spurious" becomes difficult when you are talking about a discipline that is dubious in itself.

As mentioned earlier when our Sages 3000 years ago studying movement of Planets others didn't knew even 300 years ago whether the Earth is flat or round. The vastness and mindbogglingly science used be it Vedic Mathematics or Astronomy in Vedic Astrology is something I believe you cannot understand or comprehend.

 

[Jacob Martin]

That's true. But somehow somewhere some lines should be drawn.

Although I honestly believe that this particular case has little to do with superstitions but there is method to this madness.

This approach is fuelled by ignorance. Selective modernisation on a need-to basis. Modern military because wars need to be fought. Modern education (more like vocational training) because money needs to be made, and so on. There is the road block of orthodoxy impeding each step, camouflaged as tradition and cultural heritage.

The West won because of gunpowder. Now we have gunpowder so we must be on level terms. The atom bomb was the principle innovation of the 20th century and we have that too.

Being able to retain arranged caste marriages, rural serfdom, an honour-based system of ethics, religious culinary mores, astrology/palmistry and all such cultural heritage - that is like having the cake and eating it too. What more could a civilization possibly want?

 

[El Sidd]

This approach is fuelled by ignorance. Selective modernisation on a need-to basis. Modern military because wars need to be fought. Modern education (more like vocational training) because money needs to be made, and so on. There is the road block of orthodoxy impeding each step, camouflaged as tradition and cultural heritage.

The West won because of gunpowder. Now we have gunpowder so we must be on level terms. The atom bomb was the principle innovation of the 20th century and we have that too.

Being able to retain arranged caste marriages, rural serfdom, an honour-based system of ethics, religious culinary mores, astrology/palmistry and all such cultural heritage - that is like having the cake and eating it too. What more could a civilization possibly want?

A way of its own choosing.
We decide our own journey.

The West should lose its insistence on global ummah if it can't tolerate diversity

 

[Jacob Martin]

The vastness and mindbogglingly science used be it Vedic Mathematics or Astronomy in Vedic Astrology is something I believe you cannot understand or comprehend

The works of Aryabhatta and Brahmagupta are well-known and I am not disputing that. But the fact remains that whatever they discovered was then independently re-discovered in the West, thanks to the Enlightenment.

Okay let's assume for the sake of argument that you are right and I cannot understand this mind-boggling science. But surely others can? And if so name me ONE present-day application anyone has found for these? Does ISRO or NASA use any of these sciences? Does any modern spacecraft, satellite, space telescope, etc. incorporate these Vedic wonders? The reason for that is as I mentioned above - any real innovation was independent re-discovered in the West and then expanded upon.

More importantly, that has got nothing to do with Astrology. I repeat, just as alchemy has nothing to do with the science of chemistry.

A way of its own choosing.
We decide our own journey.

The West should lose its insistence on global ummah if it can't tolerate diversity

Barring sporadic episodes of Neocon adventurism borne out of the need for oil, they have already lost appetite. Failed wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have Meade sure of that. All that now remains of the globalization project is WTO, trade agreements and free movement of money across borders.

The West is smart enough to only insist on modernity that serves its own needs. It has time and again made it clear that "who are we to decide whether women should be dressed in bags in other lands?" They believe there must be a rational explanation for everything that goes on in the East, except investment, finance and labour reforms.

 

[Fireurimagination]

The works of Aryabhatta and Brahmagupta are well-known and I am not disputing that. But the fact remains that whatever they discovered was then independently re-discovered in the West, thanks to the Enlightenment.

Okay let's assume for the sake of argument that you are right and I cannot understand this mind-boggling science. But surely others can? And if so name me ONE present-day application anyone has found for these? Does ISRO or NASA use any of these sciences? Does any modern spacecraft, satellite, space telescope, etc. incorporate these Vedic wonders? The reason for that is as I mentioned above - any real innovation was independent re-discovered in the West and then expanded upon.

More importantly, that has got nothing to do with Astrology. I repeat, just as alchemy has nothing to do with the science of chemistry.

Why do you want to stitch clothes with a sword? Vedic Astrology, Yoga etc has their own applications they may not be necessary in building rockets by ISRO or NASA. Tens of scientists, writers and philosophers from the west have learned from our culture but somehow our own people with their slave mentalities won't. They require the approval of the white man, the same happened with Yoga too, although it was our legacy but first we required the West to tell us it's benefits. Below is what opinion Western scientists had about our ancient practices and sciences.

The motion of the stars calculated by the Hindus before some 4500 years vary not even a single minute from the tables of Cassine and Meyer (used in the 19-th century). The Indian tables give the same annual variation of the moon as the discovered by Tycho Brahe - a variation unknown to the school of Alexandria and also to the Arabs who followed the calculations of the school . The Hindu systems of astronomy are by far the oldest and that from which the Egyptians, Greek, Romans and - even the Jews derived from the Hindus their knowledge.”

Jean-Sylvain Bailly - French astronomer and mathematician

 

[Jacob Martin]

Why do you want to stitch clothes with a sword? Vedic Astrology, Yoga etc has their own applications they may not be necessary in building rockets by ISRO or NASA. Tens of scientists, writers and philosophers from the west have learned from our culture but somehow our own people with their slave mentalities won't. They require the approval of the white man, the same happened with Yoga too, although it was our legacy but first we required the West to tell us it's benefits. Below is what opinion Western scientists had about our ancient practices and sciences.

The motion of the stars calculated by the Hindus before some 4500 years vary not even a single minute from the tables of Cassine and Meyer (used in the 19-th century). The Indian tables give the same annual variation of the moon as the discovered by Tycho Brahe - a variation unknown to the school of Alexandria and also to the Arabs who followed the calculations of the school . The Hindu systems of astronomy are by far the oldest and that from which the Egyptians, Greek, Romans and - even the Jews derived from the Hindus their knowledge.”

Jean-Sylvain Bailly - French astronomer and mathematician

What you say in your reply merely confirms what I wrote - whatever was discovered earlier has been re-discovered independently. And this time the gains will keep accruing, because the methods employed are vastly superior.

Some children are precocious talents but loose their way in adulthood. Some not-so-talented kids grow up to achieve great things. It depends on the development paths they take. We didn't build upon our initial successes, and have therefore been left behind. Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, we could simply use Western science as a jumping off point.

If you peruse what is happening at the cutting edge of science, not only are we not catching up, we are in fact falling further behind. I am not even talking about theoretical or experimental physics or any of the fields for which Nobel Prizes are awarded. I am referring to the practical applications in genetics, nanotechnology and robotics. Those who control these will end up controlling the world, and no amount of homilies to Vedic science will get us anywhere.

If we continue to have our heads buried in the sand, it will be Cortes meeting the Aztecs all over again. And this time we cannot blame anyone because history would only be repeating itself.

 

[El Sidd]

The works of Aryabhatta and Brahmagupta are well-known and I am not disputing that. But the fact remains that whatever they discovered was then independently re-discovered in the West, thanks to the Enlightenment.

Okay let's assume for the sake of argument that you are right and I cannot understand this mind-boggling science. But surely others can? And if so name me ONE present-day application anyone has found for these? Does ISRO or NASA use any of these sciences? Does any modern spacecraft, satellite, space telescope, etc. incorporate these Vedic wonders? The reason for that is as I mentioned above - any real innovation was independent re-discovered in the West and then expanded upon.

More importantly, that has got nothing to do with Astrology. I repeat, just as alchemy has nothing to do with the science of chemistry.



Barring sporadic episodes of Neocon adventurism borne out of the need for oil, they have already lost appetite. Failed wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have Meade sure of that. All that now remains of the globalization project is WTO, trade agreements and free movement of money across borders.

The West is smart enough to only insist on modernity that serves its own needs. It has time and again made it clear that "who are we to decide whether women should be dressed in bags in other lands?" They believe there must be a rational explanation for everything that goes on in the East, except investment, finance and labour reforms.

Totally agree.
Its just sad that people in the sub continent cannot look past the superficial sugar coating

 

[Fireurimagination]

What you say in your reply merely confirms what I wrote - whatever was discovered earlier has been re-discovered independently. And this time the gains will keep accruing, because the methods employed are vastly superior.

Some children are precocious talents but loose their way in adulthood. Some not-so-talented kids grow up to achieve great things. It depends on the development paths they take. We didn't build upon our initial successes, and have therefore been left behind. Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, we could simply use Western science as a jumping off point.

If you peruse what is happening at the cutting edge of science, not only are we not catching up, we are in fact falling further behind. I am not even talking about theoretical or experimental physics or any of the fields for which Nobel Prizes are awarded. I am referring to the practical applications in genetics, nanotechnology and robotics. Those who control these will end up controlling the world, and no amount of homilies to Vedic science will get us anywhere.

If we continue to have our heads buried in the sand, it will be Cortes meeting the Aztecs all over again. And this time we cannot blame anyone because history would only be repeating itself.

You are not being able to comprehend the difference between science of physical realm and science of spiritual realm. When you say everything got re-discovered independently, it didn't get re-discovered it got authenticated. The fact that how they discovered stuff that even modern astronomers and scientists couldn't with all their tech in itself deserved 10s of research papers. Padma Purana, which is 1000s of years old states that there are 8.4 million species on earth and only after an elaborate study scientists in 2014 stated that there may be 8.7 million (± 1.3 million) different species on our planet. The same book also talks about various dimensions and Universes. There are tons of such facts that are waiting to be authenticated by modern science better we do it than western scientists as it is our legacy. Did you know Hitler sent researchers to research Ancient Vedic technology that can be used to create weapons. They try and learn from us but somehow we don't want to learn.

 

[jarves]

Firstly in Astrology motion of Planets in solar system do not affect our lives, by studying the positioning various Dashas and Doshas are calculated. Vedic Astrology 101 is our Karma determines fruits which are gonna borne and the same can be interpreted through the language of the Planets.



As mentioned earlier when our Sages 3000 years ago studying movement of Planets others didn't knew even 300 years ago whether the Earth is flat or round. The vastness and mindbogglingly science used be it Vedic Mathematics or Astronomy in Vedic Astrology is something I believe you cannot understand or comprehend.

And position of the planets at different times depends upon there motion and which has no effect whatsoever on our life.

 

[Gufi]

This is a sad state of affairs. Issues such as infertility, skin ailments, and genetic issues will be taken to people who will treat you looking at the stars. What medicine could fix will be made into chronic ailments while the astrologists get richer. Someone mentioned the placebo effect, advice that to a person with TB. It will do wonders, use a palmist to treat malaria, an astrologist can diagnose IHD, while seizures and strokes can go to the experts.
The field of medicine should not be associated in any way with quacks, in their multiple shapes and sizes, types etc.

 

[Fireurimagination]

And position of the planets at different times depends upon there motion and which has no effect whatsoever on our life.

Scientifically speaking everything in the Universe has effect on everything else. Full moon has effect on Oceans and mental patients alike. But Astrology doesn't work that way, you need to learn first about Vedic Astrology with an open mind.

 

[takeiteasy]

Astrologers are the best at hospital when you are a religious party which believes everything was perfect 7000 years ago (The Hindutva brigade). When your hyer religiousness blinds scientific thinking.

Besides, Hospitals without doctors is a 100% easy case for astrologers to predict the deaths. May be Astrologers are there to talk about the next Janma after your death, once you re-incarnate into possibly as a human. RSS surely is helping India!

 

[Jacob Martin]

You are not being able to comprehend the difference between science of physical realm and science of spiritual realm. When you say everything got re-discovered independently, it didn't get re-discovered it got authenticated. The fact that how they discovered stuff that even modern astronomers and scientists couldn't with all their tech in itself deserved 10s of research papers. Padma Purana, which is 1000s of years old states that there are 8.4 million species on earth and only after an elaborate study scientists in 2014 stated that there may be 8.7 million (± 1.3 million) different species on our planet. The same book also talks about various dimensions and Universes. There are tons of such facts that are waiting to be authenticated by modern science better we do it than western scientists as it is our legacy. Did you know Hitler sent researchers to research Ancient Vedic technology that can be used to create weapons. They try and learn from us but somehow we don't want to learn.

I am not segregating physical and spiritual because you are not doing so. On one hand you are referring to astrology as some meta-physical endeavour, and then jumping straight into instances of real science that are totally unrelated. You do this again in this post as well.

I don't know why you are trying to make it all sound like Divine inspiration. There are perfectly well known explanation for the scope as well as limitations of ancient Indian scientific achievements.

Indian aptitude for arithmetic of large numbers is well known. Many of the concepts that the Arabs used and introduced to the West were indeed taken from Indian mathematicians. Same goes for our physicians. Sushruta and Charaka can be said to be early practitioners of the "scientific method". But that was then. Today, all the low-hanging fruits have been achieved in science and we are not the ones' doing the research or making the breakthroughs. Widespread belief in superstition, coupled with the arrogance that the West has to "learn" science from the East that it surpassed hundreds of years ago in the field doesn't help.

As for claims such as number of species, there are different estimates for different studies, depending on which you wish to quote. The claim about 8.4 million species is taken from chapter 12 of the Garuda Purana, which promptly goes on to deliver absolute scientific howlers in the following passages. As for parallel dimensions, I had envisaged them before reading my first String Theory proof. But that was an idle fantasy, and not science. Science needs to be backed by proof as to how the result was derived, not a simple bland assertion. Without the mathematical solution or experimental verification involved, what exactly do you propose Western scientists are supposed to learn from the Puranas or any such text?

 

[Fireurimagination]

I am not segregating physical and spiritual because you are not doing so. On one hand you are referring to astrology as some meta-physical endeavour, and then jumping straight into instances of real science that are totally unrelated. You do this again in this post as well.

I don't know why you are trying to make it all sound like Divine inspiration. There are perfectly well known explanation for the scope as well as limitations of ancient Indian scientific achievements.

Indian aptitude for arithmetic of large numbers is well known. Many of the concepts that the Arabs used and introduced to the West were indeed taken from Indian mathematicians. Same goes for our physicians. Sushruta and Charaka can be said to be early practitioners of the "scientific method". But that was then. Today, all the low-hanging fruits have been achieved in science and we are not the ones' doing the research or making the breakthroughs. Widespread belief in superstition, coupled with the arrogance that the West has to "learn" science from the East that it surpassed hundreds of years ago in the field doesn't help.

As for claims such as number of species, there are different estimates for different studies, depending on which you wish to quote. The claim about 8.4 million species is taken from chapter 12 of the Garuda Purana, which promptly goes on to deliver absolute scientific howlers in the following passages. As for parallel dimensions, I had envisaged them before reading my first String Theory proof. But that was an idle fantasy, and not science. Science needs to be backed by proof as to how the result was derived, not a simple bland assertion. Without the mathematical solution or experimental verification involved, what exactly do you propose Western scientists are supposed to learn from the Puranas or any such text?

I am not segregating physical and spiritual realities because there is big overlap. That is the overlap which needs to be researched and worked upon instead of dismissing it with closed minds. Today's fantasies is tomorrow's science. Witnessing Eiffel Tower in Paris through a satellite is also science and witnessing it through power of your mind is also science. Although both lie in difference domain of science but I believe both needs to be encouraged and worked/researched upon.