Behind the CeaseFireLine (CFL) ......

[PanzerKiel]

The PA, and they knew every last detail, including the disposition of 6th Mtn. Div.

Now some in staff positions are saying it should have been a deceptive road movement to Leh, not using the Kargil road, thus not signalling imminent action. Only that would have meant enough lead time, which there wasn't in this case.

As part of Op Trident, 6 Mountain Division was supposed to relieve 3 Division, so that 3 Division (being already in the area, well acclimatized, and familiar with the terrain) could concentrate and participate in the attack.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

As part of Op Trident, 6 Mountain Division was supposed to relieve 3 Division, so that 3 Division (being already in the area, well acclimatized, and familiar with the terrain) could concentrate and participate in the attack.

Sir why didn't we took back turtuk valley from India in 1999?

 

[Joe Shearer]

As part of Op Trident, 6 Mountain Division was supposed to relieve 3 Division, so that 3 Division (being already in the area, well acclimatized, and familiar with the terrain) could concentrate and participate in the attack.

I was told that there was an earlier variant, but the need to keep sufficient watch on the LAC (the Chinese line) and the need to acclimatise, whereas another unit was already ready at hand, caused a slight change in plans.

In 87-88, I was trying to hold down a difficult job in a multi-national computer company, and struggling with the snakes and ladders of that kind of job. All my batch-mates in the Army were in Eastern Command. I always thought that this was a subject for boozy bull-sessions and never took these stories seriously. This discussion gave me a totally different impression. One very reliable source told me last night that this was concrete and nearly happened; made my flesh creep. Even if it had been successful 100%, it would have been a Pyrrhic victory. GB is not the Vale.

 

[PanzerKiel]

This discussion gave me a totally different impression. One very reliable source told me last night that this was concrete and nearly happened; made my flesh creep. Even if it had been successful 100%, it would have been a Pyrrhic victory. GB is not the Vale.

Most interesting, isnt it?? Howz your cooking going on btw?

Sir why didn't we took back turtuk valley from India in 1999?

Seems like you missed the whole discussion regarding the difficulties of attacking in mountains.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Seems like you missed the whole discussion regarding the difficulties of attacking in mountains.

Ok Sir. Was it difficult for India to take away Turtuk valley from us? Did they suffered great losses?

 

[PanzerKiel]

Ok Sir. Was it difficult for India to take away Turtuk valley from us? Did they suffered great losses?

When did they take Turtuk from us? And what type of troops from Pakistan's side were defending?

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

When did they take Turtuk from us? And what type of troops from Pakistan's side were defending?

I think it was 71. i read it here somewhere that Turtuk valley of Baltistan was taken away

 

[PanzerKiel]

Just to narrate an example
Indians, in 1971, sent two companies of Ladakh Scouts from Turtok to a location to attack ,objective was 30 kms away. They were opposed by few platoons of FC (not regulars, like it is now). Within two weeks, once the operation ended, the Indians were still short of their objective.

@Pakistani Fighter This is what happened.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

The sheer size and hostile neighborhood within and without in IHK for IA is and remains it's achilles heel. Choke off for just enough time and you'll have the largest hostage situation or B'desh moment. Leading an offensive from shaky ground is itself a folly compounded by competent adversaries in either direction. I don't know how or what makes India think that this is tenable? Except that it has lasted this long...

 

[Cuirassier]

Expansion of irregulars, lashkars, and voluntary fighters is key for Pakistan to defeat India in such a war. We have to use the same strategy which we used against Soviets in Afghanistan. Short of involuntary service, this is the answer.

Mujahideen corps usually have high motivation and show bravado in war, taking high risks and pushing areas of weakness, something Indians will not expect.

FATF can be seen as a way world powers are trying to disrupt any advantage Pakistan may have by putting us on defensive about Mujahideen groups and other potential proxies.

I heard Jamat e Islami is recruiting youth, and I know tribes of FATA have pledged lashkars, while population of Azad Kashmir are being trained (just like Lahoris were in '65 and '71)

We're not going to war anytime in the near future, and I vehemently disagree with your policy of recruiting irregulars. Aren't we confident in our own troops? This would be the repeat of what Zia & Co. did and later on we paid the price with Kalashnikov culture and lawlessness, followed by a long WoT which divided the nation on ideological lines, ruined the economy & inage and cost us thousands of lives. We're a professional military - we should fight professionally too.

 

[Cuirassier]

@Pakistani Fighter This is what happened.

Great description of the Op Trident account mate. Turtuk the village was taken along with Thang, by Ladakh Scouts & Nubra Guards under Major Chewang Rinchen MVC. Apparently there was little action in this harsh sector - only enemy casualties in action were 2 wounded. Use of Scouts to protect GB cost us a lot of territory. The Indians attacked heights around Kargil with an oversized regular brigade - we had a few Scout companies to defend the area. Although there was territorial loss, they were unable to reach their main objective of Olthingthang & had incurred significant attrition.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

territorial loss,

Turtuk was not loss?

 

[Gryphon]

Great description of the Op Trident account mate. Turtuk the village was taken along with Thang, by Ladakh Scouts & Nubra Guards under Major Chewang Rinchen MVC. Apparently there was little action in this harsh sector - only enemy casualties in action were 2 wounded. Use of Scouts to protect GB cost us a lot of territory. The Indians attacked heights around Kargil with an oversized regular brigade - we had a few Scout companies to defend the area. Although there was territorial loss, they were unable to reach their main objective of Olthingthang & had incurred significant attrition.

There is a local account I have heard about Turtuk - won't find it in books/journals.

As per, there were enough forces in the area to resist Indian advances, but the defenders were compromised by their commander who happened to receive 'gifts' and 'assurances' from across.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

As per, there were enough forces in the area to resist Indian advances, but the defenders were compromised by their commander who happened to receive 'gifts' and 'assurances' from across.

We have never taken the Northern areas very seriously till the eighties. Before that we have been happily giving away our lands to the enemy without a serious fight.

 

[Cuirassier]

There is a local account I have heard about Turtuk - won't find it in books/journals.

As per, there were enough forces in the area to resist Indian advances, but the defenders were compromised by their commander who happened to receive 'gifts' and 'assurances' from across.

That is very interesting, would love to know more about this.