Begging vs Charity

[Hyde]

I used to believe in donating to charity only but then I stumbled upon the state of beggers in our country. I think nobody would beg if they have enough money a part from a tiny population

Those beggers that you see and curse them from time to time for their profession lives in a broken shed, without a mattress and often surrounded by flood of water in their courtyard and trust me nobody wants to live in such misery.

I think our intentions should be pure and thats all it matters

 

[313ghazi]

Today, I see a lot of educated young men in Pakistan, waiting for some job, cheap low level jobs, but very few of them try to open a business and think innovative. They become parasites for their parents and society. All I hear is there are no jobs as if job is the only option. That's ingratitude of gigantic proportions but we don't understand. Trade and business have the largest blessing. There are skills a person can learn instead of wasting times on social media and with friends. But neither our education system, nor the community promote the culture of entrepreneurship and small business.

Setting up a business is not easy. You require capital, you need a product or service to sell, you need to identify or create a need in the market. Unfortunately the education system does not provide youngsters with these skills. Something that is missing in our society is mentoring of young professionals and non academic career building.

People in Pakistan should setup local institutes to help people with these things. It doesn't have to be too fancy, people who have careers in a field could spare a couple of hours every few weeks to give guidance to kids who want the same careers, that kind of thing.

In the UK most of my friends circle, wether they are academics, or uneducated have nearly all gone into business, even those of us which white collar jobs - people have something on the side, 3,4,5 people setting up and running small businesses. The education system promotes the skills required to do that.

 

[Salik]

You know my views about the hear say bai. Though you conveyed a very positive message ........ good but

• A blanket and a bowl would be cheaper than a metal axe head
• Forests in Arabia are nearly non existent
• And I don't agree when narrations always try painting companions of Prophet Messenger (Peace be upon him) as poor, needy and destitute.

A commodity being cheap or costly is not based on its physical appearance but utility. In open bid you can expect any highest rate.

Secondly wood has been the basic source of energy in olden days whether forest were near or far. Someone has to do the job of woodcutting, no?

Those who initially accepted Islam, were poor and destitute except few.

Unnecessary show of muscle everywhere isn't good habit brother

 

[Well.wisher]

@SherDil @El Sidd @Well.wisher and all on this thread
Who could be more charitable and generous than the Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him). One of his companion came to Holy Prophet for help. He was really a destitute mired into the deep poverty so he really deserved to be helped. Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him) asked him "What do you have?", and he replied "I possess only two items ya Rasool ullah: (1) a blanket half of which I spread on the floor and with half I cover myself, (2) a bowl for eating". Holy Prophet asked him bring those two things, and once he brought the items, Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him) auctioned both items to the highest bidder, asked him to buy an axe-head and the wooden handle and gave rest of the money to him to buy food. Holy Prophet assembled the axe-head and wooden shank into axe with his blessed hands and gave him...He went into forest, cut wood and sold... and after some years he became quite well off. (May Allah forgive me for any mistake in narrating this incident) @I.R.A @Khafee..guys you can help me if I missed something there

Now there are some key questions and lessons for us that can lead to a prosperous society. The guy asked for food and Holy Prophet could have provided him either from his own blessed home or asked any of his companions. Similarly, an axe is not that expensive comparing to Holy Prophet made appeal to his companions for setting free some slaves, buying water-well etc..so it could also be arranged easily but Holy Prophets asked him to sell the only items he had? Do you know what Holy Prophet did there in modern terms: turned the beggar into an entrepreneur and that too without any bank loan on interest...just from the two simple items he owned: a blanket and a bowl. Holy Prophet sat an example for the able-bodied young men of ummah till the last day that never beg, try to do whatever is possible within your means. Assert yourself.

Today, I see a lot of educated young men in Pakistan, waiting for some job, cheap low level jobs, but very few of them try to open a business and think innovative. They become parasites for their parents and society. All I hear is there are no jobs as if job is the only option. That's ingratitude of gigantic proportions but we don't understand. Trade and business have the largest blessing. There are skills a person can learn instead of wasting times on social media and with friends. But neither our education system, nor the community promote the culture of entrepreneurship and small business.

Charity has an enormous importance in Islam especially for the people who can afford, they should give it to the destitute, but just don't give them the fish rather the angle/net to catch the fish and let them become a useful part of the society.

Obviously .
Allah help those who help themselves , no doubt in it .
As Allah said in quran , Allah us qoum ki haalat tab tak nhi badalta jab tak wo apni haalat khud nhi badalte.
If you're a well off person who can seriously help a begger to restore his future by giving him job like the prophet saww did then u should obviously do it but if u r unable , what u should do is help him by charity so that he could get food for living. It's a very good deed to help a human whether u wanna help by giving job or money ... .

Sahih Muslim Hadith 6466 Narrated by Jarir ibn Abdullah

Some disbelieving desert Arabs clad in woolen clothes came to Allah's Messenger (saws). He (saws) saw them in a sad plight as they had been hard pressed by need. The Prophet (saws) exhorted the believers to give charity, but they showed some reluctance until (signs of) anger could be seen on his face. Then someone from the Ansar came with a purse containing silver. Then came another person and then other people followed them in succession until signs of happiness could be seen on his (sacred) face. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (saws) said: He who introduced some good practice in Islam , which was followed after him (by people), will be assured of a reward like those who followed it, without their rewards being diminished in any respect. And he who introduced some evil practice in Islam, which was followed subsequently (by others), he will be required to bear the burden like that of those who followed this (evil practice) without theirs being diminished in any respect

@war&peace

https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&...hDFcQFggoMAE&usg=AOvVaw1jKd6dKe5uwceTYDsO4uiw

@war&peace this site might help u regarding the professional beggers.

 

[I.R.A]

This discussion has surely taken a different direction. Anyways I mean no offense to anyone and I am sorry to derail the thread .......

First of all you forgot the essential piece of information. Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him) sold it to the highest bidder and when Holy Prophet is asking his companions to buy something, they won't haggle over the price..right. They would try to pay as much as they could so definitely their valuation was much higher of those products. Also remember there used to be no MSRP labelled on the products so everything was sold through a mutual agreement ..a truly free market.

So you are telling me that Messenger Prophet (Peace be upon him)...... according to this narration .... sold that companion's only belongings to one of his other companions for the highest bid. Looks pretty simple deal right? But why would Messenger Peace be upon him exert any influence in this deal? His mere presence and supporting the sale was enough to influence the whole deal, don't you think it would be unjust of Him? And if one of the other companions had enough money to pay more than the price of that commodity ....... why didn't that companion lent the needy companion money to buy axe Qarz e Hassna or simply why didn't companions donate that money to needy companion? Couldn't he (they) see that these were the only things that needy companion possessed and were under his use and if they bought those things from him how he is going to manage without these .... remember he didn't just start earning as soon as he got the axe, it took him sometime?

There is mentioning of Weigh Scale in Quran and believers have been advised to be over cautious with balance, that also applies when someone is charging outrageously extra for any commodity.

And buddy going by your above comment if it were the companions of Messenger Prophet (Peace be upon him) buying that blanket and bowl .......... then it means not all of them were poor, but most of these narrations keep quoting events to reflect how poor they were ........... and in my opinion this is something to make us commoners believe that whatever poor conditions we are living in we should be thankful ....... why? because most respected personalities of Islam lived like that ........... do you understand what sort of mentality this creates? It facilitates the kings and rulers and makes commoners like me indifferent and insensitive to my deteriorating situation. Don't you see how our molvi hazrat keep telling us that "Dunia / world" is not for you ........ I mean I shouldn't question the ruler because whatever mess I am living in is my fate and I should blindly accept it?

Furthermore, I don't know how you say blanket and a bowl would be cheaper, at least, today the blanket I use is multiple times more expensive than best of the axes available in the market.

Utility. Metal must have been way more expensive. We have read accounts about arms and weapons of Muslims of that times. The shortage of weapons and Companions donating.

Narration in this instance stated only one companion as destitute the rest were buying his stuff. But what is the problem...Do you believe that Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him) was a surrounded by rich people?

Okay ......... please explain to me why Messenger Prophet (Peace be upon him) chose to write letters to kings and rulers of other areas? Why He didn't simply send his Companions to ordinary people instead?

My only disagreement and contention is why remaining poor is portrayed as a blessing? Why struggling and seeking world and its treasures is condemned so much? Don't we want to improve our situation as people, as humans, as a nation? Don't we want to strengthen our nation?

A commodity being cheap or costly is not based on its physical appearance but utility. In open bid you can expect any highest rate.

I can expect highest rate but not some crazy price being offered ............ in my opinion metal had more utility at that time, plus if that companion was homeless and helpless the condition of his blanket and bowl won't be that good then.

Those who initially accepted Islam, were poor and destitute except few.

The people who accepted Islam initially had the ability to comprehend its true message ..... it had nothing to do with their financial status.

Unnecessary show of muscle everywhere isn't good habit brother

To show something first you need to have that something, once you have it then question of necessary and unnecessary show is irrelevant .......... haters gonna hate

 

[war&peace]

So you are telling me that Messenger Prophet (Peace be upon him)...... according to this narration .... sold that companion's only belongings to one of his other companions for the highest bid. Looks pretty simple deal right? But why would Messenger Peace be upon him exert any influence in this deal? His mere presence and supporting the sale was enough to influence the whole deal, don't you think it would be unjust of Him? And if one of the other companions had enough money to pay more than the price of that commodity ....... why didn't that companion lent the needy companion money to buy axe Qarz e Hassna or simply why didn't companions donate that money to needy companion? Couldn't he (they) see that these were the only things that needy companion possessed and were under his use and if they bought those things from him how he is going to manage without these .... remember he didn't just start earning as soon as he got the axe, it took him sometime?

There is mentioning of Weigh Scale in Quran and believers have been advised to be over cautious with balance, that also applies when someone is charging outrageously extra for any commodity.

And buddy going by your above comment if it were the companions of Messenger Prophet (Peace be upon him) buying that blanket and bowl .......... then it means not all of them were poor, but most of these narrations keep quoting events to reflect how poor they were ........... and in my opinion this is something to make us commoners believe that whatever poor conditions we are living in we should be thankful ....... why? because most respected personalities of Islam lived like that ........... do you understand what sort of mentality this creates? It facilitates the kings and rulers and makes commoners like me indifferent and insensitive to my deteriorating situation. Don't you see how our molvi hazrat keep telling us that "Dunia / world" is not for you ........ I mean I shouldn't question the ruler because whatever mess I am living in is my fate and I should blindly accept it?

Pretty non-sensical and illogical answer and I see that you are trying to derail the thread. I have explained that already in my previous post so re-read it.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Poverty is reality and i try to help genuine poor people who are plenty if we look for them in our neighborhood/village/city. Giving money to poor families for marriage of their daughters or for education of their kids is best thing. Professional begging is evil

 

[I.R.A]

Pretty non-sensical and illogical answer and I see that you are trying to derail the thread. I have explained that already in my previous post so re-read it.

You are getting emotional ........... I don't intend to derail your thread. Please carry on I will limit myself to read henceforth.

 

[war&peace]

You are getting emotional ........... I don't intend to derail your thread. Please carry on I will limit myself to read henceforth.

How come you even say that Holy Prophet can be unjust?

 

[I.R.A]

How come you even say that Holy Prophet can be unjust?

When did I say that? You may have misunderstood ..... or may be I wasn't clear enough. Any action that leads to injustice to any party can never be expected of Muhammad Peace be upon him. He was just and lawful, he won't play favorites or try undue influence on anyone.

 

[war&peace]

When did I say that? You may have misunderstood ..... or may be I wasn't clear enough. Any action that leads to injustice to any party can never be expected of Muhammad Peace be upon him. He was just and lawful, he won't play favorites or try undue influence on anyone.

Here sir,

His mere presence and supporting the sale was enough to influence the whole deal, don't you think it would be unjust of Him?

 

[I.R.A]

Here sir,

You misunderstood sir .......... it is in the context that He cannot be unjust. Sorry for being not clear.

 

[war&peace]

You misunderstood sir .......... it is in the context that He cannot be unjust. Sorry for being not clear.

We need to be very very careful with our words when talking about Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him)

 

[Salik]

I can expect highest rate but not some crazy price being offered ............ in my opinion metal had more utility at that time, plus if that companion was homeless and helpless the condition of his blanket and bowl won't be that good then.

Utility varies person to person and time to time. We don't know exact time and location of this narration. Overall it contains universal message of hard-working. Like even if you need shoelace, earn it instead of begging. So your objection in this particular narration is too much than the case.

To show something first you need to have that something, once you have it then question of necessary and unnecessary show is irrelevant .......... haters gonna hate

But you can't keep your muscle erected all the time. It is natural.

 

[I.R.A]

Utility varies person to person and time to time. We don't know exact time and location of this narration. Overall it contains universal message of hard-working. Like even if you need shoelace, earn it instead of begging. So your objection in this particular narration is too much than the case.

Sir if you could read my initial response on this narration you would know I have agreed with positive message being conveyed. The rest is critical analysis of an historic narration quoted by an ordinary human, and that too because that ordinary human tried associating it with Muhammad Peace be upon him.

But you can't keep your muscle erected all the time. It is natural.

There are some 640 to 800 something muscles in a human body ............ the function and role of these muscles varies from some being very important to normal ......... you sir chose to quote a muscle that would boast the most and would get deflated the moment it gets to meet its opponent .............. well preferences and priorities I guess