Battles of 1971

[gromell]

He was taking the aircraft to India and not to East Pakistan to fight, plus it was a trainer aircraft not a fighter. If he was so much interested in the Jihad, should have taken another route to East Pakistan or India. Taking PAF aircraft to India was/is an act performed by traitors only.

And the person whom you called immature and not so smart was a much better person compared to that traitor, and knowing that he was gonna die and still took the aircraft to the ground needs a very large set of balls to perform such action and people mature enough and smart enough knowing the consequences do such actions to not let his country down.

And Bangladesh giving him their highest bravery medal was not for acknowledging his attempt, rather as a counter to what we gave Rashid Minhas for showing extreme bravery. As Mati Ur Rehman showed no bravery in stealing the aircraft nor he took the aircraft to the ground, i bet he must have pissed in his pants once he saw the aircraft nose dive towards the earth.

Next time show some respect to the martyrs of another nations hero.

If we are letting you post on this forum with all this anti-pakistan unsubstantiated BS, it doesn't means you come here and disrespect our war heroes.

Then why are you using foul language for Matiur?! You are supposed to be a moderator no?!

I noticed you deleted my post to which you have just replied. Why do you bother posting to something you just deleted?!

And for why Matiur did not take his plane by another route, the answer would be :

1. There was no alternative routes. India, China and Indian Ocean- these three were the routes. China was not possible as they were Pakistan's ally. Indian ocean was impractical option for fuel related reason. So India is the best option here.

2. India was helping us fight against Pakistan. It really did not matter why India was helping us because "my enemy's enemy is my friend".

 

[gromell]

You are absolutely right brother. General people of Bd does not hate Pakistanis at all though people are just little emotionally upset over the black event of 71 and most of us wish that it never took place.

If Bangladeshi hated Pakistani than Abdul Razzak and Rana Naved couldn't have played in the month of December for national championship tournament behalf of local team in middle of Dhaka. No one has question their presence rather all enjoyed their good cricket in brotherly nation. Once again it proved that general public mainly new generation has moved on from 71 debacle.

Nothing to be afraid off as we will reconcile soon or later Inshallah.

We have few hater but they will be dead soon..

This was your best post so far, except your last sentence was really unislamic and hypocritical. however you as always mixed sports with war and genocides. Poeple in Bangladesh have not moved on from 1971's tragedy. But that has nothing to do with cricket. Before Abdul Razzak and Rana Naved, Misbah came and played for Abahani, a club founded by Sheikh Mujib's son and is affiliated with Awami League. There is no animosity between Bengalis and Pakistanis who were not involved in atrocity of 71 but Bengalis can not ever forget the blood of their relatives slaughtered mercilessly by the munafik Pakistani military in 1971. There is never a reconciliation over that.

 

[Skies]

The new generation has no love loss for Pakistan nor for India. They are pretty much Bangladeshi as they never lived as Pakistani neither as Indian. So the hate you talking about does not exist within newer generation but the effect of 71 is very much there. That is why the war crime issue got so much support in last general election.

People have a natural tendency of supporting any Muslim country like war in Iraq or palestine etc. Also Pakistan is the only muslim(forget maldives) country in South Asia and Bangladesh is always in a loggerhead with India which made a lot of people to have soft corner for Pakistan. But whatever the reason they do like to see a stronger prosperous Pakistan which can make any Muslim proud.

BD people thinking and giving priority for their own identity. As a little country it will take still bit time to come out successfully with different identity from our neighbors.

@ members.
Further arguments in little disagreements will be consider (to me) as they are not willing to set up a good relation with PAK. In that case I will request to close this thread.

 

[gromell]

I have to ask a question Zakir, would you have preferred that Bangladesh was still called East Pakistan? That you were considered a Pakistani and not a Bangladeshi?

You still have the curiosity of asking that question to Al Zakir? Haven't you read any of his posts before? Let me tell you something honestly, there is not a single Bangladeshi who would like to see Bangladesh remaining as East Pakistan. Yet there are people representing less than 0.01% Bangladeshis who lack the knowledge of the true history or for some strange reason would not believe it. These kinds of people are found in every country. They have no mind of their own and they can't think rationally. In the case of Bangladesh, these people would rather be in Pakistan than Bangladesh. They were the ones who were known as razakar and al badr in 1971 and helped Pakistan Army carry its atrocity against the civilian population. Their wish to be East Pakistani rather than Bangladeshi should not misled you to think all Bangladeshis are like them. Trust me on this.

 

[gromell]

BD people thinking and giving priority for their own identity. As a little country it will take still bit time to come out successfully with different identity from our neighbors.

@ members.
Further arguments in little disagreements will be consider (to me) as they are not willing to set up a good relation with PAK. In that case I will request to close this thread.

What is the problem?! There is a discussion here and disagreements are not allowed?!

 

[gromell]

I think 80% BD people don't dislike Pakistan.
20% dislike Pakistan either for past or either for present situation in Pakistan.

But it also true that new generation people are not as interested as some people in here about Pakistan as they don't have well idea and impression about Pakistan.
So it's important for Pakistan to give a well impression to BD that they are terrorist free and progressive Pakistan and also want a very nice BD-Pak relation. And this it the real fact.

What is this 80% 20% thing my friend?! I know mukti jodha who supports Pakistan cricket/hockey team! There is no relation between Bangladeshis liking current generation Pakistanis and 1971 atrocities. There is a deep hatred for the west Pakistani culprits of 1971 in the hearts and minds of every true Bangladeshi and logically, it can safely be assumed that a Pakistani belonging to the new generation who tries to twist the history will not be a popular fellow in our eyes. But no Bangladeshi has any animosity against anyone innocent - Pakistani or Indian! We Bengali Muslims believed in Muslim brotherhood more than any other subcontinental Muslims. During first world war, when Punjabi and pathan muslims did not hesitate to fight for the British against the dying Ottoman Empire, we Bengali Muslims gave our support for the Ottomans, for the sake of Khilafat. But in modern times, we realized from experience that regardless of how much we want Muslim brotherhood, it is not a feasible idea as long as the other participant Muslims are living in a corrupted version of ideology, rather than the one preached by porphet Muhammad(peace be upon him). Hence it did not work with West Pakistanis, as they were big when they talked about Islam, but when it came down to act, there was no Islam. When talking about Pakistan based on Islamic principle and blaming Bengalis for not "sticking" to it, they should look at themselves and realize if they themselves are doing it properly. BrotherBangladesh has high aspiration regarding Pakistan but I don't think your progressive and terror free Pakistan actually exists right now.

 

[qsaark]

This is what the children are taught in BD. A person who refuses to accept this 3 million figure will be ridiculed as collaborator. But, I believe that the historical truths must be set in their genuine perspectives.

No surprise, we still share the south Asian blood and all the good and bad genetic traits that come with it; after all in Pakistan certain lies are also shoved down Pakistani kid's throat as the divine truth such as: lie that India invaded Pakistan in 1965, whereas it was us who infiltrated in IOK; that Mujib was a traitor whereas Mujib was the person who helped Mohtarma Fatima Jinnah against Ayub in presidential elections and from that time onwards, Ayub and his aides became Mujib's personal enemy; that Sardar Bugti was a traitor, whereas Bugti was the person who as the Minister of defense played key role in getting back Gawader from Oman etc. etc.

It is great to think that “historical truths must be set in their genuine perspectives” but could they be? We are people who admire lies especially if the lies come from the dictators and hate truth. We are the one who even made people like Faiz Ahmed Faiz and Ahmed Faraz into traitor figures forget about politicians.

The best you can do (that I also do) is to encourage your kids to read history, not from Bengali sources alone, but also from Pakistani and Indian sources. Truth is never on the extreme ends, it is always in between the two.

 

[deesu]

No surprise, we still share the south Asian blood and all the good and bad genetic traits that come with it; after all in Pakistan certain lies are also shoved down Pakistani kid's throat as the divine truth such as: lie that India invaded Pakistan in 1965, whereas it was us who infiltrated in IOK; that Mujib was a traitor whereas Mujib was the person who helped Mohtarma Fatima Jinnah against Ayub in presidential elections and from that time onwards, Ayub and his aides became Mujib's personal enemy; that Sardar Bugti was a traitor, whereas Bugti was the person who as the Minister of defense played key role in getting back Gawader from Oman etc. etc.

It is great to think that “historical truths must be set in their genuine perspectives” but could they be? We are people who admire lies especially if the lies come from the dictators and hate truth. We are the one who even made people like Faiz Ahmed Faiz and Ahmed Faraz into traitor figures forget about politicians.

The best you can do (that I also do) is to encourage your kids to read history, not from Bengali sources alone, but also from Pakistani and Indian sources. Truth is never on the extreme ends, it is always in between the two.

I really appreciate your thoughts.... my friend.

 

[Al-zakir]

This was your best post so far, except your last sentence was really unislamic and hypocritical. however you as always mixed sports with war and genocides. Poeple in Bangladesh have not moved on from 1971's tragedy. But that has nothing to do with cricket. Before Abdul Razzak and Rana Naved, Misbah came and played for Abahani, a club founded by Sheikh Mujib's son and is affiliated with Awami League. There is no animosity between Bengalis and Pakistanis who were not involved in atrocity of 71 but Bengalis can not ever forget the blood of their relatives slaughtered mercilessly by the munafik Pakistani military in 1971. There is never a reconciliation over that.

You are the same hater I am talking about.

You still have the curiosity of asking that question to Al Zakir? Haven't you read any of his posts before? Let me tell you something honestly, there is not a single Bangladeshi who would like to see Bangladesh remaining as East Pakistan. Yet there are people representing less than 0.01% Bangladeshis who lack the knowledge of the true history or for some strange reason would not believe it. These kinds of people are found in every country. They have no mind of their own and they can't think rationally. In the case of Bangladesh, these people would rather be in Pakistan than Bangladesh. They were the ones who were known as razakar and al badr in 1971 and helped Pakistan Army carry its atrocity against the civilian population. Their wish to be East Pakistani rather than Bangladeshi should not misled you to think all Bangladeshis are like them. Trust me on this.

Who made you my unofficial spoke person? At least I am not known as Bharati munafiq dalal. Am I?

 

[Skies]

The bombs killed as many as 140,000 people in Hiroshima and 80,000 in Nagasaki by the end of 1945, with roughly half of those deaths occurring on the days of the bombings.- WIKI

Here, (140,000 + 80,000) = 220,000 killed even after 2 nukes in 2 densely cities.
So how could it is claimed that 3000,000 killed in 71 by some people?!

 

[Admal Keyani]

Seriously what is wrong with you people, can't you just move forward, get over it. And Gromell don't forget this is a PAKISTANI DEFENCE FORUM, so don't come here and give us your bs.

Majority people who are Pakistani do not hate Bangladesh, instead most of us want to build a foundation in which Friendship can be born out of it. I know that its important to talk about the past, as the past defines the future, but having continous threads on 1971 is not productive, plus its Pakistan's dark history in which we all want to forget. All i'm saying is brothers why not make threads which are affecting current issues, because if you stay stuck in the past then you will be left behind. Hope I did not offend any Bangladeshi brothers.

P.S Gromell you have a disturbed mind, I suggets that you should go and see a councilor, just some friendly advice.

 

[Windjammer]

And for why Matiur did not take his plane by another route, the answer would be :

Being an instructor pilot, under circumstances, he could have attempted to steal a plane and defect solo, but there was every possibility he would be chased by the PAF and most probably shot down, in the event you could have portrayed him as your hero, but instead he hijacks a trainee pilot to guarantee his own safety, little realizing the determination and spirit of self sacrifice of the young PAF pilot. However the actions of Matiur were not only that of a traitor but also a coward.

 

[qsaark]

Being an instructor pilot, under circumstances, he could have attempted to steal a plane and defect solo, but there was every possibility he would be chased by the PAF and most probably shot down, in the event you could have portrayed him as your hero, but instead he hijacks a trainee pilot to guarantee his own safety, little realizing the determination and spirit of self sacrifice of the young PAF pilot. However the actions of Matiur were not only that of a traitor but also a coward.

To my understanding, there are no recordings in the PAF record that suggest that Rashid Minhas deliberately crashed his airplane. It is understood however, that he tried his best to take control of his plane and in that struggle, the plane hit the ground. So those who are saying that Rashid Minhas deliberately crashed his plane and embraced shahadat in the process and those who are saying he was not a sane person, both are wrong.

Rest of what you have said is common sense and there should be no disagreement on this. But remember one thing, at the time all these unfortunate things happened, the Bengalis who defected from PA, PAF were no longer Pakistanis, neither were they considering themselves Pakistanis so don’t call them traitors. They were at war with West Pakistan and non-Bengalis and in war, taking hostage your enemy as your life insurance is just another tactic, nothing more nothing less.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

In my opinion the best way to describe is..

If Bangladeshi and Pakistani people are willing to have good relations than no one can interfere...

Some countries interfered and are interfering because we are lagging confidence…
If we build confidence we will be fine...

 

[SekrutYakhni]

To my understanding, there are no recordings in the PAF record that suggest that Rashid Minhas deliberately crashed his airplane. It is understood however, that he tried his best to take control of his plane and in that struggle, the plane hit the ground. So those who are saying that Rashid Minhas deliberately crashed his plane and embraced shahadat in the process and those who are saying he was not a sane person, both are wrong.

Rest of what you have said is common sense and there should be no disagreement on this. But remember one thing, at the time all these unfortunate things happened, the Bengalis who defected from PA, PAF were no longer Pakistanis, neither were they considering themselves Pakistanis so don’t call them traitors. They were at war with West Pakistan and non-Bengalis and in war, taking hostage your enemy as your life insurance is just another tactic, nothing more nothing less.

I am really impressed!!!
You are "the" man...