Battles of 1971

[gromell]

It's worth mentioning that the Pakistan made G-3 Rifle had it's first real test during this war with devastating effects, but first a little back ground to the story. Initially apart from Mukti fighters, India had pushed it's own insurgents into East Pakistan. These Indian culprits were particularly ruthless and easily distinguishable as they had shaven heads and supported a pony tail. These insurgents raided the local radio station, abducted all the civilian staff and their families, killed and mutilated their bodies and piled the corpses in the court yard and started broadcasting anti-Pakistan propaganda in both Hindi and Bengali. The local Pakistan Army commander was instructed to salvage the Radio Station, who after a brief fire fight managed to over come the insurgents with about 20 of them arrested and lined up. After a brief survey of the area, the grizzly discovery of mutilated bodies of men, women and children was made. Seeing the horror, the Commander lost it and ordered one of his men to pull the trigger, the young soldier fired a single shot from his hip, it was reported the G-3 round pierced through seven insurgents and the bullet lodged into the eighth victim. Later in the war, in the Western sector, a Pakistani ground observer shot down an Indian Mystere fighter aircraft with a burst from his G-3 Rifle.

sounds like a good children bed time story.

Radio stations were taken by mukti bahini fighters. Former Pakistani army officer who was also posted in SSG, ISI in his career and a Hilal i Jurat winner in 1965 war conducted the operation on the radio station. He was Major General Ziaur Rahman, no Indian skin head spy as you are suggesting.

"Following the failure of last-ditch talks, Yahya Khan declared martial law and ordered the army to crack down on Bengali political activities and arrested Sheikh Mujib on March 25, 1971. One of the highest-ranking Bengali officers, Zia led his unit in mutiny of the Pakistan Army, killing the West Pakistani officers and capturing a radio station in Kalurghat near Chittagong and calling it the Shadhin Bangla Betar Kendro. On March 27, addressing the people via radio, Zia read independence declaration on behalf of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman.

This is Shadhin Bangla Betar Kendro. I, Major Ziaur Rahman, on behalf of Bangobondhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, hereby declare that the independent People's Republic of Bangladesh has been established. I have taken command as the temporary Head of the Republic. I call upon all Bengalis to rise against the attack by the West Pakistani Army. We shall fight to the last to free our Motherland. By the grace of Allah, victory is ours."

 

[gromell]

dont you guys even get bored of it ......these 1971 threads .......you guys keep creating one every week.......look the war was fought around 40 yrs back - bangladesh and india won....and it does not matter if you won -one battle or not what matters is who won the war.......besides you guys are the ones who are obscessed with 1971......not india which was a victor(we should be actually be bragging about it all over).so please come to terms-bangladesh has come into existance and is to stay.....forget what has happened it the past and think about the war your country is currently wagging against the terrorist scumbags...we had come to terms that pakistan is a reality ever since it was seperated. so i humbly request you guys to stop creating such threads to just create a false sence of victory saying"hey we were sucessfull against the indians in this paticular area which was 1x1 square miles in size but alas we did badly in the other area's...but thats ok we were good at that paticular square mile kodoos to PA fighters in that paticular square mile "

why do Indians talk about 1947, 1965 in 2010? why you guys make at least 5 bollywood movies per year on those themes? 1971 was the biggest event in the history of Bangladesh and we are proud of it as we were the real victors. India won the war with us; without us you guys simply had no chance of winning the war in 71, in the manner you did. This thread is not just any 71 thread. It talks about important history that many of us did not know before. and also it's a special occasion. The victory day of Bangladesh. Try to be respectful. Otherwise you would never get respect from others.

 

[eastwatch]

It was also a home to Pakistan army, but they made it their enemy land. I understand Pakistan is a military society, but Bengal is not. Wining a war in Bengal is very difficult, even Alexander had to go back from here. You wont find any shortage of soldiers but there are shortage of Talibans here...

Your posts here does not make any sense, neither they are relevant to this thread.

One correction, Alexander never set foot to the terrain of Bengal. he left Hindustan after the battle with brave Raja Puru in the heartland of Punjab, about 1500 km from Bengal.

 

[gromell]

People like you will always live in the past without even knowing much about it. Your freedom father alas Bangla Bandhu ended up getting assassinated for reasons best known to you, your partner in crime is involved in a low intensity border skirmishes with you. A while back, Bangladesh Samity (Scotland) had invited an ex-Mukti guy to participate and deliver a speech on his experiences but the guy called Makul who was visiting from the States refused to participate as he accused the Samity of capatalising on the issue for personal gains as seemingly none of the Samity members even participated in the struggle. You have every right to celebrate and enjoy your independence day, but please don't push it.

it's not bangla bandhu, it's Bangabandhu. It's not too hard.

Sheikh Mujib was assassinated by former Pakistani officers who did not participate in 1971 war. Those officers were aided in their most heinous crime by your ISI. We know the reason. So should you now that I have educated you on it. Besides, great leaders are often assassinated. The last three kaliph of the Khulafai Rashidun Omar, Uthman and Ali(peace be upon them) were all assassinated.

Your information on the Bangladesh Samity in Scotland speaks nothing. It's too little information to conclude anything. There could be anti liberation people in the samity, some personal spat etc. who knows!

 

[TopCat]

One correction, Alexander never set foot to the terrain of Bengal. he left Hindustan after the battle with brave Raja Puru in the heartland of Punjab, about 1500 km from Bengal.

Well you are the boss in history. But I read in some references that he turned back from the bank of Ganga which is current day Meghna. Just a quick search brings this link.

::: Star Weekend Magazine :::
http://mukto-mona.com/new_site/mukto-mona/bengali_heritage/bengal_history.htm

 

[gromell]

One correction, Alexander never set foot to the terrain of Bengal. he left Hindustan after the battle with brave Raja Puru in the heartland of Punjab, about 1500 km from Bengal.

You got wrong information. Alexander, after defeating Porus in the battle of Hydaspes, moved towards East where the erstwhile Gangaridai Empire or modern day Bengal was situated. It is suggested by western Greek historians that Alexander feared the powerful Gangaridai empire who had a vast army consisted of chariots, elephants, cavalry and huge infantry. Soldiers in Alexander's army were exhausted and he decided not to engage the Gangaridai empire.

"When he (Alexander) moved forward with his forces certain men came to inform him that Porus, the king of the country, who was the nephew of that Porus whom he had defeated, had left his kingdom and fled to the nation of Gandaridai... He had obtained from Phegeus a description of the country beyond the Indus: First came a desert which it would take twelve days to traverse; beyond this was the river called the Ganges which had a width of thirty two stadia, and a greater depth than any other Indian river; beyond this again were situated the dominions of the nation of the Prasioi and the Gandaridai, whose king, Xandrammes, had an army of 20,000 horse 200,000 infantry, 2,000 chariots and 4,000 elephants trained and equipped for war".... "Now this (Ganges) river, which is 30 stadia broad, flows from north to south, and empties its water into the ocean forming the eastern boundary of the Gandaridai, a nation which possesses the greatest number of elephants and the largest in size. "----Diodorus Siculus (c. 90 BC– c. 30 BC)

 

[eastwatch]

I want to make one thing clear sir,I am not siding with anyone.The only side I am part of is Bangladesh.
Just because of pointing out the truth about our strength,doesn't make me siding with any country.I told what is true,why should we hype about our strength when these things do not even exist?
I don't believe in showing my nationalism by fighting with people f.rom India.And I even don't need to.
On these board,I believe in treating each member according to their posts.
I will not tolerate anyone making false accusations about me.I don't need to prove myself to anyone,sir.

Brother Al-Zakir, may God bestow his best blessings on you and your household. It is sad that our government back home is so keen on pushing the agenda that people like leon and others are constantly pushing, which is the Bangladesh India wants us to believe in, and not the Pakistan which we were meant to be.

God save us from further embarrassments.

@leonblack

I was responding to the post by Pakistan=Bangladesh. But, when I quoted his post I have erased the portion now you can see. Read slowly, you will see your name 'leon' is written. I was telling him that if he blames someone as being pro-Indian, then he himself is also guilty of being a pro-Pakistani. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[gromell]

It's all convinent for chest beating but remember the superpowers America and Russia in Vietnam and Afghanistan lost out because they were fighting away from home against an unseen enemy. There are other examples like India in Sri Lanka and again US in Somalia.
Pakistan Army was fighting a war 1000 miles away against a full fledge Indian attack and the local population. More over it was totally deprived of any reinforcements, logistics and supplies. A single PAF squadron equipped with 50s era F-86 Sabre aircraft faced ten Indian squadrons, three of them of modern MIG-21s, more over the defecting PAF Bengali personal, took with them war plans and loops in radar corridors. The rest is history, hence, give credit where it's due.

USA lost in Vietnam because they were the bad side, so was the Soviets in Afghanistan. Same fate for Pakistan I suppose. Pakistan army was not fighting against foreign country. They were oppressing their own people. Try to realize the truth, instead of searching for alibi. There were 100000 Pakistani troops in Bangladesh, after the reinforcement happened early 71 to crush the Bengalis, who were citizens of Pakistan then. That force was enough to fight the Indians if Pakistan army had not already made Bengalis their enemy.

 

[Peshwa]

You got wrong information. Alexander, after defeating Porus in the battle of Hydaspes, moved towards East where the erstwhile Gangaridai Empire or modern day Bengal was situated. It is suggested by western Greek historians that Alexander feared the powerful Gangaridai empire who had a vast army consisted of chariots, elephants, cavalry and huge infantry. Soldiers in Alexander's army were exhausted and he decided not to engage the Gangaridai empire.

"When he (Alexander) moved forward with his forces certain men came to inform him that Porus, the king of the country, who was the nephew of that Porus whom he had defeated, had left his kingdom and fled to the nation of Gandaridai... He had obtained from Phegeus a description of the country beyond the Indus: First came a desert which it would take twelve days to traverse; beyond this was the river called the Ganges which had a width of thirty two stadia, and a greater depth than any other Indian river; beyond this again were situated the dominions of the nation of the Prasioi and the Gandaridai, whose king, Xandrammes, had an army of 20,000 horse 200,000 infantry, 2,000 chariots and 4,000 elephants trained and equipped for war".... "Now this (Ganges) river, which is 30 stadia broad, flows from north to south, and empties its water into the ocean forming the eastern boundary of the Gandaridai, a nation which possesses the greatest number of elephants and the largest in size. "----Diodorus Siculus (c. 90 BC– c. 30 BC)

Could the Gangaridai mentioned here be the Mauryan empire?? Wasnt the Mauryan kingdom the largest entity in India at that point?

 

[deckingraj]

That force was enough to fight the Indians if Pakistan army had not already made Bengalis their enemy.

Are you serious??? I can understand that western sector had enough punch to give India a bloody nose but your statement about eastern sector is not up to the mark...Secondly there was no question of Indian intervention hadn't there was unrest in Bangladesh....

 

[Skies]

Personal view:

Before i start i would like to admit about my ignorance on this subject...Couple of questions for you...

a) When you say E. Pak was wrong by 20%...what are you referring to??

I also do not know very well as I wasn't in that time. But, yea, I mentioned that:

Both W & E Pak did wrong but I'll blame 80% to the W.Pak. The W. Pak political rulers were unable to guess the future, they were unable to rule and live together. They were not respectful to us. And India took the opportunity to split Pakistan. They acted as catalyst, for their own benefits.

But if I would exist and had power in that time then I would not let happen this war 71. At first I would urge for stop war for several months by peace agreement and would make a talent team to make ideas to negotiate between. I, strongly, believe it was possible to avoid the war by negotiation, where we had to sacrifice and compromise each other.

So what I would do if I were in that time, the leaders of E. Pak failed do this. This is 20% mistakes of E. Pak to me.

Many people believe or it's true that S. Mujib was greedy for power and called war for getting the power. And also it's true that W. Pak discriminates to E. Pak people. But, beside, there was a propaganda like W. Pak is doing partially to E. Pak and taking our all assets away to there which induced a war situation.

It's true that W. Pak did those (discrimination, misrule) in some extend but some how there was a exaggeration also which we fail to understand. This is the 20% mistakes of E. Pak to me.

I mean, people fail to understand the exaggerations by some greedy men intended to split Pakistan. Also we fail to understand the future if we separate we will be weak.
You know, together we stand and separate we fall. If we could make understand W. Pak their fault that they were wrong and could negotiate with them then it would not happen. This is the 20% mistakes of E. Pak to me.

I hear it form many people, even now, who were against W. Pak, but now say that it was a wrong doing war in 71. Why, now, they say that? Cos they were fail to understand, to negotiate. This is the 20% mistakes of E. Pak to me.

b) When you say India took the opportunity to split Pakistan...What exactly you mean?? What other options in you eyes India had in those circumstances???

Please remove the curtains in front of ur eyes or do not pretend that India did not took the scope in 71.
Yes, I admit that due to Indian helps we were benefited. But, no doubt, India did that for it's own benefits. Actually, this situation was like that both BD and India will be benefited and Pak will split which was India's ultimate goal.

However,

 

[eastwatch]

Letters of 1971.

I have read a book named 'Ekattorer Chithi' compiled by Salahuddin Ahmed in association with three others. They have collected a a few huindred letters the Freedom Fighters wrote to their mothers, fathers and relatives in 1971. It is very difficult to translate, but I will try a few, but one at a time. Following is the first letter in that book.

March 29, 1971
Rajshahi

P.S: The above letter was written by a martyr named Kazi Nurunnabi. He was a mdical college student in Rajshahi.


Amma,

Assalam alaikum. I am very fine, so please do not worry about me. Tell Abba that unnecessary anxiety only brings mental tension. Here in Rajshahi yesterday and the day before yesterday there was heavy fighting between Police and Army. But, our Police lost to the army.

People are rushing out of Rajshahi City, it has been completely deserted. Military has used cannons. About 250 police were killed. 4 army troops were also killed in the engagements.

Rajshahi City is now under military control. Brother-in-law Hadi is in good health, nothing to worry about. I think, Duli Apa (senior) is also fine. She may have moved to a different place that I do not really know about.

Pushpa Apa is always crying after learning the military brutality in Dhaka. She is worried about her mother who is living in Dhankuri area. If possible, please send the news. Do not worry about me. The way army has killed innocent public, it is a shame that I am still living. I am not dead may be because you are praying to Allah, but a death would have been honourable. But, is it worth dying without giving a fight.

If we could win over the army, i would have gone to Naogaon. But, victory was not ours. I do not want to be a double-loser by first losing a battle and then going back to home. Running away from this fight is very insulting. But, may be I cannot help it.

Convey my salam to Abba. Tell Dulu and others not to take any risk. I am talking from my own experience, because it may be futile.

Pray for me to Allah.


Respectfully yours

Babul
March 29

 

[deckingraj]

So what I would do if I were in that time, the leaders of E. Pak failed do this. This is 20% mistakes of E. Pak to me.

Since this is your personal views i hope you don't mind me sharing mine with whatever limited knowledge i have in this subject....If it sounds too lame to you then please feel free to let me know and i will stop...

Many people believe or it's true that S. Mujib was greedy for power and called war for getting the power. And also it's true that W. Pak discriminates to E. Pak people. But, beside, there was a propaganda like W. Pak is doing partially to E. Pak and taking our all assets away to there which induced a war situation.

Was it a propaganda or has truth in it??? We can easily access it by looking at economic growth of East and West Pakistan as compared to their assets(includes natural resources...Industrial output etc etc)...What are the major investments in your eyes that were done in East Pakistan which gives an inclination that it was treated as equal rather than a colony???....Do you have any figures for that???

It's true that W. Pak did those (discrimination, misrule) in some extend but some how there was a exaggeration also which we fail to understand. This is the 20% mistakes of E. Pak to me.

When you say exaggerated what exactly are you talking about?? Are you saying the position was grim but not as grim as was portrayed?? In other words East Pakistan was treated as equal partner but some war mongering/power hungry leaders on your side exploited the distrust for their political gains...

I mean, people fail to understand the exaggerations by some greedy men intended to split Pakistan. Also we fail to understand the future if we separate we will be weak.

Are you sure about the weak part??? Here is what the currency talks about "1 Bangladeshi Taka (BDT) = 1.19621 Pakistan Rupee (PKR)"....It gives me an inclination that Bangladesh has done better than Pakistan economically...As far as military is concerned do you think you are weak as per your threat perceptions???

You know, together we stand and separate we fall. If we could make understand W. Pak their fault that they were
wrong and could negotiate with them then it would not happen. This is the 20% mistakes of E. Pak to me. I hear it form many people, even now, who were against W. Pak, but now say that it was a wrong doing war in 71. Why, now, they say that? Cos they were fail to understand, to negotiate. This is the 20% mistakes of E. Pak to me.

Yes you could have negotiated...but may i ask why you think you did not negotiate...As per me there was no inclination on west side to share power with East...Now if it is true then i am not sure what you could have negotiated....They send 100,000 force for some reason right???

Please remove the curtains in front of ur eyes or do not pretend that India did not took the scope in 71.
Yes, I admit that due to Indian helps we were benefited. But, no doubt, India did that for it's own benefits. Actually, this situation was like that both BD and India will be benefited and Pak will split which was India's ultimate goal.

Please remove the curtains in front of your eyes and treat me as curious person than someone suffering from "My country is great" phenomenon....In my last post i gave possible scenarios what India could have done...She choose the last which make sense to me....Now it would be Naive to think that a country indulge in a full-fledge war without any strategic interests in the conflict...So rest assured i am not that Naive...

 

[Skies]

To deckingraj,

Sorry I can not answer u wholly. It will be a favour if any BD member, who agrees with my post#101 of this thread and think as like that post by me, will answer u.

But there was propaganda also to induce war situation.

I do not think that BD is only great. India is also great, the have many things to pride.

 

[deckingraj]

^^^^^^^^^

No worries bro...We all are here to learn...May be someone more insightful can share his/her thoughts on the subject...

Regards
Rajwinder Singh