Bars, Nightclubs, Lottery, Casinos, HorseRacing - Why can't we have those things?

[steelTalons]

100% agree..

I never understood this. How can a place, or an object, have a religion.

Is your bed a Muslim? Is your house a Muslim? Is your mobile phone a Muslim?

OP is right. Let the people do what they want as long as it doesn't harm others. Religion is a personal matter between man and God, not between man and state.



Don't worry dear, women are being shagged (raped) for free, burkha ho ya na ho, and our people can't do shit.

Problem lies in culture.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Nothing to do with the West.
It's about how you regulate your own society and take it out of the hands of criminals.
Prohibition never solved anything.

It's also about secondary victims, which is why I specifically oppose alcohol, smoking and prostitution (cannabis is a different discussion - a grey area). I agree with posters here who state banning on "moral" grounds alone is hypocritical and a childish approach, and will simply push everything underground where it can't be taxed.

The sooner gambling and horse racing are legalized, the better. There will be benefits to sports sponsorship too, which is holding us back internationally - we have chronic underfunding in most sports. Snooker players who are pretty decent are crying for sponsors.

I know folks will mention gambling addiction, but it is easily regulated with heavy government involvement.

Anyway this is all moot because we all know none of these things will be legalized in our lifetimes. Still odd that tobacco is so permissible in a "supposed" Islamic country though.

 

[Longhorn]

Legalization neither...

You need to fight it... chase those cockroaches of criminals who are using other Human being to get that lambo...
Legalization will only let those criminals change their "illegal" hat to a "legal" one and will not only get that lambo but even that yatch...

And yes everything have to do with the West... Since Those societies are taking example on them... BUT EVEN THEM are today regretting their past move and trying to restrict it... but what Those Muslim societies do? Well they are ripping off that "Learn from our mistake" page and are jumping on it for their "Illusion" to build their economy...
Total waste of breath...

We're into hundreds of centuries of human development and evolution and no one's managed to stop it yet.
Utopia doesn't exist, human nature will always exist.
That is why it needs to be regulated rather than prohibited.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

What is wrong with horse race?
Gambling?

Yes it's ostensibly the gambling element of it. When I say horse racing, I mean the gambling side of it and breeding horses that you know will be used.for gambling (guess who does that the best - the custodians of our holy sites).

 

[Longhorn]

It's also about secondary victims, which is why I specifically oppose alcohol, smoking and prostitution (cannabis is a different discussion - a grey area). I agree with posters here who state banning on "moral" grounds alone is hypocritical and a childish approach, and will simply push everything underground where it can't be taxed.

The sooner gambling and horse racing are legalized, the better. There will be benefits to sports sponsorship too, which is holding us back internationally - we have chronic underfunding in most sports. Snooker players who are pretty decent are crying for sponsors.

I know folks will mention gambling addiction, but it is easily regulated with heavy government involvement.

Anyway this is all moot because we all know none of these things will be legalized in our lifetimes. Still odd that tobacco is so permissible in a "supposed" Islamic country though.

It's not the tax factor per se.
For me, I would rather have an open, regulated and honest society even if it doesn't agree with some people's idea of an ideal society rather than a seedy, underground, hypocritical one where everything goes on and we can pretend it doesn't while ignoring all it's negative consequences that bleed and corrupt society.

 

[M.Bison]

I'm not a robot.
I have a brain as well as a moral compass.
I look at each problem on it's merits.

That is the whole point. Your moral compass and brain are not the same as others. Just because you look at each problem based on its merits does not mean others will. You might draw the line at 18 or human beings but others might not. You might think weed is harmless but others might think that heroin, meth, or cocaine are harmless. This atheistic point of view gives people the right to decide their own mortality but life is more complicated than that.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

It's not the tax factor per se.
For me, I would rather have an open, regulated and honest society even if it doesn't agree with some people's idea of an ideal society rather than a seedy, underground, hypocritical one where everything goes on and we can pretend it doesn't while ignoring all it's negative consequences that bleed and corrupt society.

Fully take your point regarding morality, hypocrisy etc. I am making my points on public health grounds.

 

[HannibalBarca]

We're into hundreds of centuries of human development and evolution and no one's managed to stop it yet.
Utopia doesn't exist, human nature will always exist.
That is why it needs to be regulated rather than prohibited.

Wrong in the beginning of Islam they did it better than any society ever before...
So It's possible... it's just Muslim societies nowadays are based upon Foreign models... Since most of them forgot their own history... Therefore even those they put in charge are not competent enough to rise their heads and do what must be done...

You should read authors from Muslims societies before Colonization... you will see that what you believe impossible to do was possible at a certain extent... Where the Western society was praising your forefathers "Morality"... and how their Islamic societies kept away the "immorality" of their own time...

In Tunisia per example... Some Authors and Personalities were migrating from France/Italy to Tunisia to runaway from the "Immorality of the New era"...

 

[Menace2Society]

Wrong in the beginning of Islam they did it better than any society ever before...
So It's possible... it's just Muslim societies nowadays are based upon Foreign models... Since most of them forgot their own history... Therefore even those they put in charge are not competent enough to rise their heads and do what must be done...

You should read authors from Muslims societies before Colonization... you will see that what you believe impossible to do was possible at a certain extent...

Political Islam did do it better, better than anyone else had done before. However the baseline was medieval Europe. The goalposts have changed and so must the system to keep pace.

If you want to outdo the west then provide an even freerer and fairer system. Prohibition on religious moral ethical grounds simply does not work anymore. People require freedoms and then sort the good from the bad themselves. Stops those pesky uprisings and "springs". People like being in control of their lives, its more fulfulling when you decide for yourself to say no to something rather than being told.

Ofcourse there are limitations on medical grounds but I am talking about lifestyle choices.

Pakistan has immense potential to be one of the greatest countries in the world but first it must focus on abundance and not limitations.

 

[Longhorn]

That is the whole point. Your moral compass and brain are not the same as others. Just because you look at each problem based on its merits does not mean others will. You might draw the line at 18 or human beings but others might not. You might think weed is harmless but others might think that heroin, meth, or cocaine are harmless. This atheistic point of view gives people the right to decide their own mortality but life is more complicated than that.

People decide their own morality anyway.
What religion does is set out ideals, parameters and guidance.
It can't force people to follow it in it's entirety and extreme. We all follow these ideals the best we can, including you. It becomes s personal moral choice, which changes as life makes people older and wiser.
We get into a habit of living dishonest, duplicitous lives because of the fear of condemnation. The weak amongst us will find ways of doing what they want to do regardless of consequences. If this is done in a criminal manner it will harm society, if it is done in a regulated manner then, while it may be morally wrong, society is spared it's corrupting influence.
Just as an aside, if you look at it objectively, societies where these things are legalised and regulated are less criminal and corrupt than where these things are banned and operated underground.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Political Islam did do it better, better than anyone else had done before. However the baseline was medieval Europe. The goalposts have changed and so must the system to keep pace.

If you want to outdo the west then provide an even freerer and fairer system. Prohibition on religious moral ethical grounds simply does not work anymore. People require freedoms and then sort the good from the bad themselves. Stops those pesky uprisings and "springs".

Islam provide Religious/belief freedom... Its' written in the Quran and Our Prophet gave us the best Exemple...
Throughout Islamic History... Religious Freedom WAS UNMATCHED on Earth...
But the problem arise when people begin to make that mistake... Muslims=Islam...
Muslims are people who are not perfect and never will... coupling it to modern ideologies and a lack of faith and you got it... the best recipe for destruction...

We are nowadays seeing the limits of Western societies... Where "Equality" is subjective... and evolve when "Change happen"...

 

[Longhorn]

Wrong in the beginning of Islam they did it better than any society ever before...
So It's possible... it's just Muslim societies nowadays are based upon Foreign models... Since most of them forgot their own history... Therefore even those they put in charge are not competent enough to rise their heads and do what must be done...

You should read authors from Muslims societies before Colonization... you will see that what you believe impossible to do was possible at a certain extent... Where the Western society was praising your forefathers "Morality"... and how their Islamic societies kept away the "immorality" of their own time...

In Tunisia per example... Some Authors and Personalities were migrating from France/Italy to Tunisia to runaway from the "Immorality of the New era"...

I hope you find you Utopia.

 

[Xestan]

I think the population today is not fit for most of the things mentioned.

I mean, most of us deny our history before Zia.

Can you imagine Italian styled cafes on Mall Road with sitting area near the service road and slow jazz music playing in the background with couples dancing; yes, that's the Lahore of 60s.

Alcohol was openly available but consumption rate was way lower than what it is today, despite the ban.

PAF was the last force to outlaw alcohol and well, our pilots gave a bloody nose to Indians while still enjoying a glass of whiskey after flying.

Nobody judged them, nobody cared what you did and people were tolerant.

And then Bhutto went crazy and Zia happened afterwards and we became the mess we are today.

 

[Longhorn]

Fully take your point regarding morality, hypocrisy etc. I am making my points on public health grounds.

The public health (and crime) factor is what is important.
What a lot of people forget is that we have to live in the world as it is rather than the world as they would ideally like it to be.

I think the population today is not fit for most of the things mentioned.

I mean, most of us deny our history before Zia.

Can you imagine Italian styled cafes on Mall Road with sitting area near the service road and slow jazz music playing in the background with couples dancing; yes, that's the Lahore of 60s.

Alcohol was openly available but consumption rate was way lower than what it is today, despite the ban.

PAF was the last force to outlaw alcohol and well, our pilots gave a bloody nose to Indians while still enjoying a glass of whiskey after flying.

Nobody judged them, nobody cared what you did and people were tolerant.

And then Bhutto went crazy and Zia happened afterwards and we became the mess we are today.

Every society (and person) needs a vent or else it loses it's mind.

 

[Lincoln]

I am glad you are laughing because smiling and laughing is a sign of submission. That is what stupid people do when they are confronted.

Internet tough guy.